Need help - Slate seams pop when rails are tightened.

C

Ches

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I have a 15+ year old AMF Playmaster 8' table that was stable since it was originally installed. We moved last summer, storing the table in the basement of our new home till the basement was finished. The table was installed by a professional about 4 months ago.

I noticed about three weeks ago that one of the slate seams popped. The installer came out and fixed the table this week, but as they tightened the rails down, the seam popped again. They switched the rail to the other end, and it seemed to follow one particular rail. In order to keep it from happening again, they couldn't tighten the rail bolts completely, so I get a loose thud sound from the rail. The ball comes off the rail fairly well, but this just isn't right.

The biggest difference between this basement and the old basement is humidity. The new place is significantly drier. Could that have caused the rail to warp, and would that be enough to lift the slate? Any suggestions on what might be the problem?

Thanks in advance -
 
Ches said:
I have a 15+ year old AMF Playmaster 8' table that was stable since it was originally installed. We moved last summer, storing the table in the basement of our new home till the basement was finished. The table was installed by a professional about 4 months ago.

I noticed about three weeks ago that one of the slate seams popped. The installer came out and fixed the table this week, but as they tightened the rails down, the seam popped again. They switched the rail to the other end, and it seemed to follow one particular rail. In order to keep it from happening again, they couldn't tighten the rail bolts completely, so I get a loose thud sound from the rail. The ball comes off the rail fairly well, but this just isn't right.

The biggest difference between this basement and the old basement is humidity. The new place is significantly drier. Could that have caused the rail to warp, and would that be enough to lift the slate? Any suggestions on what might be the problem?

Thanks in advance -
Click to expand...

On those AMF Playmaster tables, the blinds bracket to the bottom of the slate backing, fitting into a groove in the back of the rails. The slate could be leveled with the rails on so their being leveled to the final state of the table. Really though, gluing the slate seams when leveled should help keep them from popping when the rails are tightened.
 
Thanks for the reply.

They glued the seams, and the second time they used about 5 slips of paper in the seam. Right now the slate is perfect, but I'm afraid to tighten the rails down enough to get rid of the rattle. I suppose I could tighten them down and if the seams pop again, I know either the table is messed up or the installation was done wrong. Downside is, I'll have to pay someone to come out and try again.

I'm no pool table expert by any means (as you can probably tell) but what I don't understand is, how could tightening the rails down cause the slate to lift if the slate is screwed down to the frame? That slate seems like it should be darn near immoveable.
 
Ches said:
Thanks for the reply.

They glued the seams, and the second time they used about 5 slips of paper in the seam. Right now the slate is perfect, but I'm afraid to tighten the rails down enough to get rid of the rattle. I suppose I could tighten them down and if the seams pop again, I know either the table is messed up or the installation was done wrong. Downside is, I'll have to pay someone to come out and try again.

I'm no pool table expert by any means (as you can probably tell) but what I don't understand is, how could tightening the rails down cause the slate to lift if the slate is screwed down to the frame? That slate seems like it should be darn near immoveable.
Click to expand...

If the slate screws holes are worn out from moving the table or from over tightening and stripping them out, the slate might not be held down as tight as it should.
 
I really appreciate the input, Josh. I didn't watch them do all the installation, but they did say they tightened the slate down quite a bit.

I just shot a short video to show how the rails rattle, but can't figure out how to upload it to my computer. (My tech skills are worse than my pool table skills!) I might stop by a local dealer and show them the video to get additional input before I wrench on my table.

Again, I really appreciate the help.
Brian
 
your rail is probably warped (high in the center) when you tightened the center bolt it pulls the slate up to the rail. I've seen it happen this could be the problem.
 
sdbilliards said:
your rail is probably warped (high in the center) when you tightened the center bolt it pulls the slate up to the rail. I've seen it happen this could be the problem.
Click to expand...

I had a feeling that might be the case. Is there a fix for this, or do I have to live with it as-is?
 
I think you have a slate screw stripped or not tight. Seams to me it would be hard to move the slate with a wood rail if it was tightened down to the frame.
The wood will conform to the slate before the slate would move.
 
I suppose I could pull the rails and check to see if they're straight or bowed. I'm sure that'd give a good indication of the problem. I think I'll find a good mechanic in the area before I start experimenting on my own, though.

I do appreciate the responses from everyone.
 
Ches said:
I had a feeling that might be the case. Is there a fix for this, or do I have to live with it as-is?
Click to expand...

I used to come across this problem with some or the imported tables. With these table I would reinforce the frame liner (it was failing to hold the slate down when the warped rail was tightened), Also super gluing the slate together will help.
 
Thanks for the reply. I have the name of a couple local mechanics. I'll get with them before I try anything.

I appreciate the response.
 
South_Florida said:
Just wondering how far is the seem popping? Like how many mm? I guess enough to affect the play of the balls?
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I didn't measure it, but it's popping just enough to get a fast moving ball airborne, or a slow moving ball to change direction or roll backwards if it's coming to a stop at the seam. To prevent the slate from lifting, the rails are loose enough that they rattle when a ball hits the bumper. That's a bit embarrassing!

This has been such a great table over the years, it's frustrating to be facing these issues all of a sudden. I'm not running a pool league or anything like that, but I enjoy shooting pool. I just want to get this back to the point where it plays well. I'm sure there's someone local who can get it done!
 
Yes I think you will get it all back fine. I just finally got my own table, I bought a 9 foot Gandy in December (used of course) and I never really felt for the seems till a few days ago (just in shock of happiness having my own table I think), one I can feel all the way across the table, It doesn't affect play, seems like the one guy did a poor job on the fiberglass patch, while the other guy did the seem perfect. I put Simonis 860 on it, and I am hesitant to call them back out here because I am the type of person that just doesn't go back to someone who did a bad job. Then I am wondering about going down the whole path of well it was a used table, blah blah blah. I think I will live with it and in the mean time, try to find someone that really knows what they are doing, so when I replace the felt next time, treat the slate like we are restoring an old vette and make it perfect. My friends at the pool hall where I learned to play back in the day would spend a lot of time and sandpaper getting it perfect.
 
I thought I'd bring a little closure to this thread and thank the guys who chimed in with their thoughts. I called an experienced guy to come out and look at the table. There were a multitude of things wrong with the assembly of the table by the previous crew, including stripped screw holes that several guys mentioned here. That was one of the primary culprits. Thankfully, the rail wasn't warped, but the whole table was assembled a bit out of whack, and that compounded every problem.

In any case, the suggestions you guys made gave me a good deal of confidence, especially when the mechanic who came out had the same ideas. He did a very good job and my table plays great.

Just wanted to say thanks for the input.

Now I suppose I should go to the "instruction" area since I can't blame missed shots on the table!
 
Who

Ches said:
I thought I'd bring a little closure to this thread and thank the guys who chimed in with their thoughts. I called an experienced guy to come out and look at the table. There were a multitude of things wrong with the assembly of the table by the previous crew, including stripped screw holes that several guys mentioned here. That was one of the primary culprits. Thankfully, the rail wasn't warped, but the whole table was assembled a bit out of whack, and that compounded every problem.

In any case, the suggestions you guys made gave me a good deal of confidence, especially when the mechanic who came out had the same ideas. He did a very good job and my table plays great.

Just wanted to say thanks for the input.

Now I suppose I should go to the "instruction" area since I can't blame missed shots on the table!
Click to expand...

Not wanting to start problems, but who set up the table originally for you, and who came out to fix it, this is the information this forum was created to share. Understand if you don't want to share that info as well.
 
Poolhalljunkie said:
Not wanting to start problems, but who set up the table originally for you, and who came out to fix it, this is the information this forum was created to share. Understand if you don't want to share that info as well.
Click to expand...

I think naming names could be a problem on the board. That said, if someone in the area asks for a recommendation, I'd let them know.
 
If people here on these forums are going to applaud mechanics for good work they should also be called out for hack work. The guys that did your table the first time basically stole from you by charging you for a service that they did not actually do. It is my opinion they should be named to prevent other people from being cheated out of their money.
 
fastone371 said:
If people here on these forums are going to applaud mechanics for good work they should also be called out for hack work. The guys that did your table the first time basically stole from you by charging you for a service that they did not actually do. It is my opinion they should be named to prevent other people from being cheated out of their money.
Click to expand...

I would have to agree as well, as nothing will ever change otherwise;)
 
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