need way to determine handicap in straight pool league

bhayhurst

bhayhurst

New member
Does anyone know an algorithm to determine straight pool handicaps?

Hi.

I'm running a straight-pool league. Obviously, there aren't "teams", it's just every-person-for-themselves.

I don't have a way to determine handicaps -- the guy I'm running it with is pretty good at eyeing people up, but I'm looking for an algorithm to determine handicaps. Our handicaps go from 1 to 20. That'll make sense if you read the following table:
race_to_150.JPG


The data I keep from every game:
- win/loss
- "ball difference": let's say it's an even race to 150 and player 1 wins at 150, player 2 loses at 120, the difference -- 30 -- would be awarded to player 1.
- high run for each player
- average number of balls per inning (a "bad" game would be, say, 1.7, a good would be 3.5 (at least in this league))

With all that said:
Does anyone know an algorithm to determine straight pool handicaps?
 
bhayhurst said:
Does anyone know an algorithm to determine straight pool handicaps?

Hi.

I'm running a straight-pool league. Obviously, there aren't "teams", it's just every-person-for-themselves.

I don't have a way to determine handicaps -- the guy I'm running it with is pretty good at eyeing people up, but I'm looking for an algorithm to determine handicaps. Our handicaps go from 1 to 20. That'll make sense if you read the following table:
View attachment 616993

The data I keep from every game:
- win/loss
- "ball difference": let's say it's an even race to 150 and player 1 wins at 150, player 2 loses at 120, the difference -- 30 -- would be awarded to player 1.
- high run for each player
- average number of balls per inning (a "bad" game would be, say, 1.7, a good would be 3.5 (at least in this league))

With all that said:
Does anyone know an algorithm to determine straight pool handicaps?
Click to expand...
Also, does anyone know how to not become a "new member"? I've been a member for years and years, and I'm still a "new member".
 
bhayhurst said:
Also, does anyone know how to not become a "new member"? I've been a member for years and years, and I'm still a "new member".
Click to expand...

Not sure how to do that for free. According to your info you will have been a member for a year tomorrow. Maybe that will automatically do it.

But, if you support the site and donate to the cause you can instantly become a gold (or silver?) member.

As for your straight-pool league -- good on you running one. I have no experience with what you need. Only a general comment that any handicap system should favor the good players and not tempt the stronger players to sandbag in order to game the system.
 
bhayhurst said:
Hi.
I'm running a straight-pool league. Obviously, there aren't "teams", it's just every-person-for-themselves.
I don't have a way to determine handicaps -- the guy I'm running it with is pretty good at eyeing people up, but I'm looking for an algorithm to determine handicaps. Our handicaps go from 1 to 20. That'll make sense if you read the followin

Does anyone know an algorithm to determine straight pool handicaps?
Click to expand...
The league I played in used Balls Per Inning to handicap. Don't know the formula, but I was around a 4.5-5.5 BPI and I gave out a pretty big spot to most I played. I was one of the higher-ranked players in the league. We always played to 150.
 
bhayhurst said:
Also, does anyone know how to not become a "new member"? I've been a member for years and years, and I'm still a "new member".
Click to expand...
It has to do with your Messages count, I believe. You've only participated on the forum 14 times in the years and years you've been registered.
 
I would reach out to member SteveKur1, he runs a great straight pool league.

I would imagine it is difficult to establish initial handicaps without some error, so be sure to plan for corrections. Also, it will be difficult to know and maintain a BPI (balls per Inning) for each player unless everyone is using Billiard Buddy or some other pool app.

And I assume you are planning to update each players handicap according to results from the games. In a league I ran we would move a player up or down if he won or lost 2 matches in a row or if a player wins or looses by a large margin.

I like the graph you put up. Where did it come from. It may entice me to run a 14.1 league again.
 
claymont said:
The league I played in used Balls Per Inning to handicap. Don't know the formula, but I was around a 4.5-5.5 BPI and I gave out a pretty big spot to most I played. I was one of the higher-ranked players in the league. We always played to 150.
Click to expand...
I was thinking balls per inning avg has got to be best in the long run, but it doesn't really get accurate until you have a lot of innings per player.

I do also like the idea of the disparity in balls pocketed between opponents for completed matches factoring into the equation too...and I guess that's about all I got on that.
 
You could try something like FargoRate except instead of every game you’d use every ball. Define the best player in the league as a 100 and set 10 pts off for every factor of 2. Most of your players should end up with ratings over 80 (good for egos) and at the end of every session you can name a “Mr. 100”.

How big a league are we talking 10-20, 20-50, or more players?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 
There is a website that is set up to handle 14.1 leagues. It takes care of the handicapping, match lengths (if you don't want 150), ranking during the season. It allows all of the members to access a record of all of the matches online. It also allows the members to figure out their own matches. It has been used for several 14.1 leagues in this area. Here is a link: https://aspastats.appspot.com/

Edit: I see that it now has an online scoring tool built in.

The service was free and maybe it still is. The guy who programmed it is around to answer questions and fix things, but mostly it just works. If you want, I can put you in touch with him to see if he is adding new leagues.

The leagues are drop-in, which means anyone who shows up on league night is matched up. It's possible to play 3 matches in one night if you're quick. I suppose you could have a fixed round-robin schedule, but drop-in works better around here.

And here is what my record looks like for a session from a few years ago. The first match listed for Jan 20, 2017 shows me playing David. Our ratings are 778 and 689 (roughly like Fargo but a little inflated). He was going to 55 and I was going to 100. I only got to 96. Note that the rating (H'cap) changes after every match.

CropperCapture[800].png
 
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As for how that system determines your rating, it adjusts your rating after each match according to win/loss. That's the only fair way to do it. If you use balls-per-inning, it just encourages slow safety play. You have to start players somewhere close maybe judging by how they do against someone in the league. In the first few weeks, you watch them and adjust after four or five matches. Then you just let the system run. It takes care of the adjustments.
 
I too run a straight pool league, we're currently in season 24. I publish a schedule (by week) at the beginning of the season and each player will arrange to play their scheduled opponent, preferably during the scheduled week but we allow playing in advance (if you know you'll be on vacation or going on a business trip etc) or playing late.

When we have <18 players, we schedule a full round robin. When we have 18 or more we have 2 divisions based on skill level, so players mostly play opponents near their own ability. We do schedule 3 or 4 cross division matches as well to keep the handicapping honest.

We have 20 skill levels and each is a range of 50 points, so for example C+ is 550 - 599, A- is 750-799, etc. I use a formula that increases the winner's hcp number based on both the percentage difference between the loser's score and his/her target as well as how many matches the player has played in the league (not just in this season, but ever). Percentages work much better than just the number of balls, especially if there is a wide variation between skill levels within the league. Hcps change much more quickly when the player is just starting out in the league (no matter how long they've been playing pool) because I may have made a mistake in assigning the initial handicap, and because the more the person plays the more seasoned (accurate) the handicap becomes.

BeginnerTyroNoviceStudentLearnerC-CC+B-BB+A-AA+AAAAAShortstopOpenHouse ProProTour ProRanked Pro
Beginner75686257514743524743393532293330282523211917
Tyro756862575147575247433935323733302825232119
Novice7568625751625752474339354037333028252321
Student75686257696257524743394440373330282523
Learner756862756962575247434944403733302825
C-7568837569625752475349444037333028
C75918375696257525953494440373330
C+1009183756962576559534944403733
B-10091837569627165595349444037
B100918375697871655953494440
B+1009183758678716559534944
A-10091839486787165595349
A1009110494867871655953
A+100114104948678716559
AA1251141049486787165
AAA12511410494867871
Shortstop125114104948678
Open1251141049486
House Pro12511410494
Pro125114104
Tour Pro125114
Ranked Pro125

The difference between targets in each vertical column is 9% less than the number below it. The names of the skill levels is only relevant within our league. What you think of as an "A" is not related to what we call an "A", the names are just a way of referring to the ranges with a hierarchy.

Handicapping has worked very well this way. Everything is done in a spreadsheet so the ONLY subjective input from me is in assigning the initial hcp. To do that I get input from other players in the league, from the room management and also use any hcps they may have in another league like APA or BCA, etc. Even though those leagues don't play straight pool, I do get a general feel for their overall pool ability since I also know many of my existing players hcps in those leagues.

Matches are determined by checking a posted grid (above) with lower skill levels (C+, A-, etc) on the Y axis and Higher skill levels (C+, A-, etc) on the X axis. The number at the intersection is the lower skilled player's target and the lowest number in that same column is the target for the higher skilled player. Higher skilled players go to 75, 100, or 125 based on their ability so 2 weak players don't have to play all day.

Player's hcps change after every match, but their skill levels may not, depending on where within the 50 point range they were and how much they won/lost by. New players (to the league) may change skill levels frequently whereas long term members change infrequently.

I'm happy to answer any questions.
 
If you can't play safeties very well, I find it hard to create a handicap if 1 of the opponents can run 100+ balls. In matching up with better players you're better off playing 10 and stop, that way no one can run out, and it tests a players ability to play safeties at that point. Stronger player can play 8 and stop, weaker player can play 12 or 14 and stop if that balances out in the final 30% of the ball count keeping the players better grouped in points.
 
Bob Jewett said:
There is a website that is set up to handle 14.1 leagues. It takes care of the handicapping, match lengths (if you don't want 150), ranking during the season. It allows all of the members to access a record of all of the matches online. It also allows the members to figure out their own matches. It has been used for several 14.1 leagues in this area. Here is a link: https://aspastats.appspot.com/

Edit: I see that it now has an online scoring tool built in.

The service was free and maybe it still is. The guy who programmed it is around to answer questions and fix things, but mostly it just works. If you want, I can put you in touch with him to see if he is adding new leagues.

The leagues are drop-in, which means anyone who shows up on league night is matched up. It's possible to play 3 matches in one night if you're quick. I suppose you could have a fixed round-robin schedule, but drop-in works better around here.

And here is what my record looks like for a session from a few years ago. The first match listed for Jan 20, 2017 shows me playing David. Our ratings are 778 and 689 (roughly like Fargo but a little inflated). He was going to 55 and I was going to 100. I only got to 96. Note that the rating (H'cap) changes after every match.
Click to expand...
Where & how do I get started with this system?
 
Bob Jewett said:
There is a website that is set up to handle 14.1 leagues. It takes care of the handicapping, match lengths (if you don't want 150), ranking during the season. It allows all of the members to access a record of all of the matches online. It also allows the members to figure out their own matches. It has been used for several 14.1 leagues in this area. Here is a link: https://aspastats.appspot.com/

...
Click to expand...
They are accepting new rooms, it appears. There is an email at the bottom of the link above. Tell them Bob sent you. 😋
 
I play in John Biddle's 14.1 league. See post #12 above. One thing he didn't mention is that he periodically checks the fairness of his handicap system by mathematically comparing what percent of the matches are won by the player with the higher handicap as compared to the player with the lower handicap. The differences are very small - within a few percentage points!
 
robertod said:
I would reach out to member SteveKur1, he runs a great straight pool league.

I would imagine it is difficult to establish initial handicaps without some error, so be sure to plan for corrections. Also, it will be difficult to know and maintain a BPI (balls per Inning) for each player unless everyone is using Billiard Buddy or some other pool app.

And I assume you are planning to update each players handicap according to results from the games. In a league I ran we would move a player up or down if he won or lost 2 matches in a row or if a player wins or looses by a large margin.

I like the graph you put up. Where did it come from. It may entice me to run a 14.1 league again.
Click to expand...
Thanks for the advice. I will look him up.

I'm sorry, I don't know where the numbers for the chart came from. I "designed" it, for what it's worth. Feel free to use it. Here's one for a race to 125:
Capture.JPG
 
In my league, the highest handicap goes to 100 and the lowest handicap goes to 50. Everyone else is somewhere in between. The amount of balls you have to run adjusts by 3 balls each week depending if you won or lost. They also payout per match won, rather than overall standings. This makes it easy to keep organized when a player misses a week or has a substitute. The substitute would be his own player with his own handicap and winnings.
 
You guys seriously over looked the handicap I mentioned, 10 and stop. The stop means after your opponent scores 10 points, his next shot has to be a safety, letting you back to the table, to either play out a safety battle, or pocket a ball and make 9 more balls before you have to play a safe as well. Any one of you players capable of running 10 or more balls could play against John Schmidt, SVB or anyone else, because they can't run out on you no matter if they can run 100's of balls are not. This handicapped system is like playing 9 ball with alternating breaks.
 
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