pharaoh68 said:
It's not bashing persay but it's a knock on the sale. Telling a seller that the cue makers work is unimpressive while he's trying to sell the cue would bother alot of people. Not just Martin....
Tony<-----thinks the cue is sweet
New 8-point AC "George Strouboti"
- Thread starter jazznpool
- Start date
It's not bashing persay but it's a knock on the sale. Telling a seller that the cue makers work is unimpressive while he's trying to sell the cue would bother alot of people. Not just Martin....
Tony<-----thinks the cue is sweet
pharaoh68
Banned
Mystick Cue Fan said:Telling a seller that the cue makers work is unimpressive while he's trying to sell the cue would bother alot of people. Not just Martin....
Tony<-----thinks the cue is sweet
Tony-
I've sold cues on this site before and if I were list the things that have bothered me in some of my threads, we might just run out of space. But the bottom line is, you post something like this in a public forum, you open yourself up to comments of all kind.
Ever notice that nobody says a word when guys like you jump in and say "Sweet cue" or "Good luck with the sale"??? The seller want to move the cue. Not have somebody remark on how much they like the cue but have no intentions of buying it. But those people are free to express their opinions because its positive.
Well, I've got an opinion too. And like it or not, I'm entitled to have it and I'm entitled to share it. You gotta take the good with the bad. If you can't, don't go into sales. Because not everyone is going to love your product.
pharaoh68
Banned
jazznpool said:
So, to make a long story short, you have no problem with opinions as long as they don't contradict you and affect your sales. Is that right?
Maybe you should rephrase that. Because what you are really saying is that you DO have a problem with any opinion that contradicts yours and that opinions are not welcome in your threads unless they are rave reviews and glorious praise. Good luck with that Martin.
Again, not sure why you're so upset. Its not like your making the cues!
-B
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to each his own,,,personally I think the notched diamonds are overused by everybody,,,I'm still waiting for something 'new' 
) I'll buy it from you 
Brian, I'm basically saying if anyone says my makers make bad cues I'm likely going to come in and offer the other side of the story. All of my makers strive to make a well crafted cue with top grade components. Not every cue that comes out of their shop is a masterpiece--but its that way with other cuemakers too--you can bet on it. Comments about not liking design or certain elements of the cue are much different than saying the cuemaker's cues are bad and play poorly. (To me some of your heroes cues play poorly but I keep that to myself). I don't like it when someone provides misinformation about the cuemakers I represent. FYI, for over 1-1/2 years I have been an apprentice/helper at Ariel's shop on a part-time basis. I'm grateful for the opportunity to learn. BTW, I sell cues because I like to, not because I have to. I never need to sell a cue, ever. There are many levels of learning with cuemaking and sales. I enjoy the relationships with the suppliers, makers, buyers, and other dealers.
Martin
Martin
pharaoh68 said:
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pharaoh68
Banned
jazznpool said:
Martin-
I was about to jump in here and say that this argument is and always has been about the designs of Ariel's cues. I personally am unimpressed with the designs I have seen. If you take a few minutes to scan through my posts in this thread, you will see. Then I thought better of it because, you are right. I'm pretty much unimpressed with the way they play also. So, I won't even approach that subject.
Now you say that to you, some of my heroes' cues play poorly. So, I gotta ask: do you even know who my heroes are?!? Sure I've touted Paul Mottey as one of the best from the onset and I'll stand by that opinion. Now if you think his cues play poorly, that's fine. Its your opinion. But if you think Ariel Carmeli makes a better looking , better playing cue than Paul, I'll have to say this discussion is pretty much over because now I see that your argument is rooted in lunacy and I think maybe 80%-90% of the cue-buying market would agree with me when I say Mottey makes a better cue than Carmeli.
I have to say, I don't really care whether you sell cues for fun, for a living, or for whatever the reason may be. All I am saying (and all that I have been saying from the onset) is that this cue is an unoriginal design and that this unoriginal design is just one of many that have come from this shop. Plain and simple.
Brian, I guess you're not as bright as I originally thought you were. I'm usually not going to knock other cuemakers I respect in a public forum. It's now clear that you basically don't care about anyone else. One of my points is your heroes do unoriginal designs too but you don't knock them for it. I'm also saying if you or anyone bad mouth my guys I'll probably come in with the other side. Your credibility as an evaluator or assessor of pool cues has went way down in my book...no substance, just rude/ bully opinion.
Martin
Martin
pharaoh68 said:
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pharaoh68
Banned
jazznpool said:
Martin-
I made this point in another thread and have made it in the presence of a few well known and reputable cue colelctors and dealers and all of them agreed: 9 times out of 10, when you see a Mottey across the room, you can tell its a Mottey. When you see a White, you can tell its a White. Sure, the designs may have a very Bushka / Boti influence but somehow, some way, you can generally tell a Mottey apart from many others.
As for my credibility, I don't care what you think of me. I don't care whether you think I'm a bully or not. I don't even know you so I really won't lose any sleep over this at all. The truth is you peddle some cues with some horribly unoriginal designs and, in this case, you put a "clever" little spin on it by giving it this insiprational moniker like "George Strouboti" or "Hermann J. Carmeli" when in fact, its just another knockoff.
You may recall a thread in the main forum about cuemaker integrity. I made a few posts there about Ariel's work and used some examples (pics and everything) of less than attractive designs, poor inlaying, etc. So, if you want to argue over credibility, at least I have supplied photographic evidence to support my beliefs. All you have done is further illustrate the foundations of your bias by saying that these are "your cuemakers" whom "you represent" and, in the case of Carmeli, you apprentice for. The difference between you and I Martin is not that I am a bully. Its that we both have opinions but, unlike you, I have given examples and illustrations to substantiate my claims. You have just repeated yourself over and over.
One last time Martin. We differ in opinion. That's just the way it is. So go ahead and continue to love Ariel's work and I'll continue to feel differently.
That's a nice cue. I would not mind having something like that myself
Unless Martin is selling goods that are pure crap, stolen or he has shoddy business practices it seems to me other posters should stfu and allow him to post his offerings without self appointed knockers trying to queer his transactions.
Unless Martin is selling goods that are pure crap, stolen or he has shoddy business practices it seems to me other posters should stfu and allow him to post his offerings without self appointed knockers trying to queer his transactions.
what's an "original" design anymore?
I mean come on - Most current well known and not so well known cuemakers of the modern era were influenced either directly or indirectly by an experience with another cuemaker. Realistically, I can't think of too many shapes, or colors or woods that haven't already been used in somebody's cue. You want points? Nah...it's been done! You want french windows? Please...that's so yesterday! You want a cue made out of wood?! Hell, that's the most copied idea...ever!
See how silly this argument gets? On one hand you have a guy that loves Carmeli's work, so he gets a chance to apprentice at the shop....stop and think about it. Maybe Carmeli, or Mike Stacey, or Olivier will turn out to be the next Stroud or Tad of our time! If we all had the opportunity to hang out at a truly custom shop, wouldn't we? Over here we have a guy that just isn't an Ariel Carmeli fan. You know what? That's ok too, cause this guy really likes Paul Mottey's work. The point being, there really is no one pinnacle of perfection in regards to originality, playability and construction that is a CONSENSUS favorite. I am lucky enough to have known and worked with Troy Downey and Ryan at Ratcues for almost 12 years now. I get to spend as much time in that shop as I would like, and I take advantage of that as much as I can. And yeah, I think Downey makes one hell of a cue! Maybe just not for everybody.
Chris
I mean come on - Most current well known and not so well known cuemakers of the modern era were influenced either directly or indirectly by an experience with another cuemaker. Realistically, I can't think of too many shapes, or colors or woods that haven't already been used in somebody's cue. You want points? Nah...it's been done! You want french windows? Please...that's so yesterday! You want a cue made out of wood?! Hell, that's the most copied idea...ever!
See how silly this argument gets? On one hand you have a guy that loves Carmeli's work, so he gets a chance to apprentice at the shop....stop and think about it. Maybe Carmeli, or Mike Stacey, or Olivier will turn out to be the next Stroud or Tad of our time! If we all had the opportunity to hang out at a truly custom shop, wouldn't we? Over here we have a guy that just isn't an Ariel Carmeli fan. You know what? That's ok too, cause this guy really likes Paul Mottey's work. The point being, there really is no one pinnacle of perfection in regards to originality, playability and construction that is a CONSENSUS favorite. I am lucky enough to have known and worked with Troy Downey and Ryan at Ratcues for almost 12 years now. I get to spend as much time in that shop as I would like, and I take advantage of that as much as I can. And yeah, I think Downey makes one hell of a cue! Maybe just not for everybody.Chris