New Aiming System!

sixpack

sixpack

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Kidding.

I just sent an email about the aiming system that I use and came up with many moons ago and thought I'd share it in case it might help someone.

Even though I worked it out on my own a long time ago, it's not unique, it's just double the distance.

Anyway, here's the email. Happy to hear any flaws. The major flaw in it for me is that my 40 y.o. eyes can't seem to make out the aim points as well as my 20 y.o. eyes could. :)

Here's the email:
I'll try to explain it - I don't have time to dig up or draw any diagrams this week. So here goes:

This is a system that I developed myself while I was in college and trying to come up with a systematic way to figure out where to aim.

Basically, if you are looking at the CB to OB from behind the CB. There are two interesting points, one is the center of the OB in relationship to the CB. The other is the contact point (CP) needed to hit for to make the shot.

Mathematically using trig because both objects are round, the aim point to make the CB hit the contact point is excatly double the distance from the center of the OB to the CP. (for most distance of shots, this breaks down when the CB and OB are very close)

So what I do is aim the center of the CB to the center of the OB, then turn to aim the center of the CB to the contact point, then aim that much farther out again.

Another way you can do it is when you are sighting down the cuestick and line up the center to center aim line. Then look for the contact point on the OB and see where it lines up on your tip. i.e. 10 o'clock. Then turn and aim to where the contact point is at the opposite point, or 2 o'clock in this case. One AZBer said that he has tick marks on his ferrule for this. (FrankinCali maybe)

This simplified version does not allow for squirt or swerve.

Also, I used to aim directly under my dominant eye and I'm not sure if this system will work if you are not. I think it will but I'm not sure.

For squirt you'll need to experiment because all cues, cloths and strokes are different. But for me a rough guideline is:

Cutting with outside english. Aim further outside. The more english you use, the furtherr outside you aim. I keep the aim line close and adjust my bridge hand and back hand slightly but keep my body aligned with the aim line. (See the Joe T videos posted yesterday).

For inside english shots, I do the same with regard to body alignment and adjusting the backhand and bridge hand slightly. Aiming the cue stick at the contact point will get you close. (or at least put your errors on the correct side) Most shots you will make doing that but you'll need to experiment and learn when you will and when you won't otherwise you'll never be great at pocketing balls with english.

Accelerating through the ball seems to produce less squirt while decelerating through it seems to create more.

If you are using bottom english and sidespin, then you don't need to compensate as much because the CB will swerve back into the original path.

Also, the slower the shot the more swerve and the longer the shot the more swervve. This too will require some experimentation. I suspect you could make yourself a chart (or find one online) that tells you how much swerve to expect on a certain length, speed shot and you could try and figure it out every shot. By far the easier way to do this is to keep shooting different shots with different english and commit to remembering how the CB reacts.

This is my system and I'm sure the science guys on AZB can find about a hundred flaws in it, but it works pretty good for me.

Also, this is the double the distance system that I came up with. Others before me and since have no doubt come up with the same system and I am not familiar with any of them so I don't know what their strengths and weaknesses may be.

~rc
 
whistling.gif
 
... There are two interesting points, one is the center of the OB in relationship to the CB. The other is the contact point (CP) needed to hit for to make the shot.

... the aim point to make the CB hit the contact point is excatly double the distance from the center of the OB to the CP. (for most distance of shots, this breaks down when the CB and OB are very close)
Click to expand...

Another way to say this is that the CP is midway between the centers of the two balls. It's also midway between the left edge of one and the right edge of the other (or the right edge and left edge). This is useful to know, because as the CP gets nearer to the edges it's easier to center it between the "inside" edges of the two balls (and the edges are easier to see than the centers).

pj
chgo
 
Patrick Johnson said:
Another way to say this is that the CP is midway between the centers of the two balls. It's also midway between the left edge of one and the right edge of the other (or the right edge and left edge). This is useful to know, because as the CP gets nearer to the edges it's easier to center it between the "inside" edges of the two balls (and the edges are easier to see than the centers).

pj
chgo
Click to expand...

Yes, I like thinking about it that way better. Thank you.

In fact, I find that I have evolved/simplified this system to CP to CP now when I play most times.

~rc
 
sixpack said:
... Even though I worked it out on my own a long time ago, it's not unique, it's just double the distance. ...
Click to expand...
I like it for thin hits.

It's also in Byrne's "Wonderful World of Pool and Billiards" where he gives credit to Paul Hahn who sent it to him. Here's a related article that describes the "double the distance/middle of the lens" system http://www.sfbilliards.com/articles/2004-06.pdf in which I mistakenly give credit to Randy Kukla who describes it along with a bunch of other systems in his aiming system book.
 
Give this a try..It MIGHT be a refinement of your method and takes into account that due to CIT, the OB will NOT travel along the line of centers established by pure geometry.

Try this.

1. Draw a mental line between the center of the OB toward the point of the pocket in the THIN side of the pocket.

On a right cut, for example, that New CP (NCP) will be a little to the LEFT of the geo CP because the line is aimed at the right point of the pocket. Fix a mental dot at that point.

2. Aim the top center of the CB and the NCP...not a clock face position...but at the NCP which is in the middle of the OB.

Using the top center of the CB to aim is highly intuitive since that is the way you would aim a rifle.

This method assumes a center ball tip contact point and adjusts for CIT without the need for outside english.

As with most/all other methods, it relies on the player's ability to create and RETAIN mental points relative to some distant object and some people are more able to do so than others.

And as always, aiming methods must be adjusted whenever other than centerball english is used...but such methods are "baselines" and you have to start SOMEWHERE in the aimingt process.

I would be curious to know if you try it, whether you think it is simpler than what you described in that it involves simply creating a new, highly identifiable contact point and then aiming the TOP CENTER DOT (fictitious) at the NCP.

Other methods that involve using the SIDES of the balls as "sighting devices" are not intuitive (like rifle sights are) and involve varying degrees of "parallax vision" that some people's brains compensate for more readily than others.

Regards,
Jim

PS: As you mentioned in your post, this method also breaks down when the CB/OB are close together.
 
I have been using that method for years - it works for me. I aim for the same point using backhand English to add inside and outside English. For me I have difficulty imagining the "ghost ball".
 
av84fun said:
Give this a try..It MIGHT be a refinement of your method and takes into account that due to CIT, the OB will NOT travel along the line of centers established by pure geometry.

Try this.

1. Draw a mental line between the center of the OB toward the point of the pocket in the THIN side of the pocket.

On a right cut, for example, that New CP (NCP) will be a little to the LEFT of the geo CP because the line is aimed at the right point of the pocket. Fix a mental dot at that point.

2. Aim the top center of the CB and the NCP...not a clock face position...but at the NCP which is in the middle of the OB.

Using the top center of the CB to aim is highly intuitive since that is the way you would aim a rifle.

This method assumes a center ball tip contact point and adjusts for CIT without the need for outside english.

As with most/all other methods, it relies on the player's ability to create and RETAIN mental points relative to some distant object and some people are more able to do so than others.

And as always, aiming methods must be adjusted whenever other than centerball english is used...but such methods are "baselines" and you have to start SOMEWHERE in the aimingt process.

I would be curious to know if you try it, whether you think it is simpler than what you described in that it involves simply creating a new, highly identifiable contact point and then aiming the TOP CENTER DOT (fictitious) at the NCP.

Other methods that involve using the SIDES of the balls as "sighting devices" are not intuitive (like rifle sights are) and involve varying degrees of "parallax vision" that some people's brains compensate for more readily than others.

Regards,
Jim

PS: As you mentioned in your post, this method also breaks down when the CB/OB are close together.
Click to expand...

You make an excellent point. I do that when I'm playing. I adjust the target of the CB to get the NCP in your post. So I am the CB towards the near point of the pocket for cut shots. But...I forgot to put that little tidbit in my email so I hope he's reading this thread :)

~rc
 
this breaks down when the CB and OB are very close
Click to expand...

The geometry is correct at any distance, far or near, but maybe it's harder to visualize accurately when the balls are close together (maybe because you're looking more downward at them?).

Adjusting the CP for throw (mentioned in another post) is a good idea, but the adjusted CP should be treated just like any CP with this system: center it between the centers or edges of the balls. I might have misunderstood the description, but it sounded like it was suggested that the center of the ball should be aimed at the adjusted CP, which of course would make you miss it.

pj
chgo
 
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Patrick Johnson said:
The geometry is correct at any distance, far or near, but maybe it's harder to visualize accurately when the balls are close together (maybe because you're looking more downward at them?).

Adjusting the CP for throw (mentioned in another post) is a good idea, but the adjusted CP should be treated just like any CP with this system: center it between the centers or edges of the balls. I might have misunderstood the description, but it sounded like it was suggested that the center of the ball should be aimed at the adjusted CP, which of course would make you miss it.

pj
chgo
Click to expand...

First, re: the bolded comment above, whatever works for whomever is, of course, the way to go. But the above method provides an identical result but via the use of two edges of the CB and a spot on the OB for a total of 3 reference points.

Aiming a "rifle sight" on the top center of the CB to the CP does precisely what you suggest...i.e. the CP becomes centered between the OB edges but with only TWO reference points being taken into consideration...the rifle sight and its target with no thought being given to the edges of the CB.

Again, the RESULT is the same so whatever method works best for each individual pair of eyes is the way to go.

As for the rest of your post we've had similar discussion before Patrick and with respect, you cannot aim with geometry...you can only aim with your eyes and therefore, you are burdened with all kinds of non-geometric issues such as perspective, depth perception and parallax view to name a few.

Of course, the cb traveling a path leading to contact with the ob can be portrayed geometrically but the shot can only be aimed visually.

I THINK that Bob Jewett wrote something about how to adjust normal aiming techniques for balls that are quite close together which merely suggtests the truth, which is that the VISUAL PERCEPTION of the two balls changes as they come very close to each other.

Yes, the modification of the OP's method that I posted involves imagining, in effect, that the cb is the barrel of a gun with a sight placed on its top dead center.

Then the player aims that sight directly at the CP (or the NCP in my modification that accounts for CIT) and no, doing so does not cause the shot to miss.

On a spot shot, for example the "sight" points to about 10 o'clock on the ob (depending on exactly where the CB is placed).

However, move the CB on the exact same path until it is a chalk width from the OB and aim the sight to 10 o'clock and you miss miss by nearly a diamond and a half.

I am not equipped to explain why that is...except to generalize about the tricks of perspective...but I am equipped to report that aiming as the OP and I have posted is accurate except at close range as noted...in which case, I for one...switch to aiming the inside edge of the cb (3 or 9 o'clock as depending on the direction of the cut) to the NCP.

Regards,
Jim
 
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Sixpack

Sorry the tick marks weren't mine. I have always struggled with systems. Not that long ago a guy told me it was probably due to playing years of
other sports more by feel. I could see angles good enough and that
the systems were throwing off my head.

I do use a couple of thought patterns for certain shots. I find it easier to make cut shots when actually thinking I need to make this portion of this
ball rub this portion of this ball. Just a reminder to let the contact points meet.

I do like the thought of being able to recognize certain percentages of overlap though ... like 1/2 ball, 1/4 ball etc. I should work on this some. Might make it easier to adjust on shots that just dont fit my vision well.
 
sixpack said:
Another way you can do it is when you are sighting down the cuestick and line up the center to center aim line. Then look for the contact point on the OB and see where it lines up on your tip. i.e. 10 o'clock. Then turn and aim to where the contact point is at the opposite point, or 2 o'clock in this case.
Click to expand...

I've actually used the basic system you described and abandoned it a while ago, perhaps too hastily. The above quote from your description is a very interesting addition, and I plan to give it a try. Thanks.
 
frankncali said:
Sixpack

Sorry the tick marks weren't mine. I have always struggled with systems. Not that long ago a guy told me it was probably due to playing years of
other sports more by feel. I could see angles good enough and that
the systems were throwing off my head.

I do use a couple of thought patterns for certain shots. I find it easier to make cut shots when actually thinking I need to make this portion of this
ball rub this portion of this ball. Just a reminder to let the contact points meet.

I do like the thought of being able to recognize certain percentages of overlap though ... like 1/2 ball, 1/4 ball etc. I should work on this some. Might make it easier to adjust on shots that just dont fit my vision well.
Click to expand...

Okay, sorry to misquote you. I wonder who it was I'm thinking of?

~rc
 
Aiming a "rifle sight" on the top center of the CB to the CP does precisely what you suggest...i.e. the CP becomes centered between the OB edges
Click to expand...

When the OB's CP is centered between the two balls' (opposite) edges it's also centered between the two balls' centers.

Aiming the top center of the CB at the OB's CP = aiming the center of the CB at the OB's CP, which means the OB's CP can't be between the balls' centers.

Maybe you're talking about how it looks to you rather than the actual geometry, but I don't see how it can look like you're aiming the center of the CB at the OB's CP when you're actually aiming the center of the CB to the side of the OB's CP (so the OB's CP will be centered between the centers & edges). This is the heart of the system.

You seem to be saying that the CB's center doesn't go where you think you point it. If that's the case, how do you aim straight-in shots?

pj
chgo
 
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Patrick Johnson said:
When the OB's CP is centered between the two balls' (opposite) edges it's also centered between the two balls' centers.

Aiming the top center of the CB at the OB's CP = aiming the center of the CB at the OB's CP, which means the OB's CP can't be between the balls' centers.

Maybe you're talking about how it looks to you rather than the actual geometry, but I don't see how it can look like you're aiming the center of the CB at the OB's CP when you're actually aiming the center of the CB to the side of the OB's CP (so the OB's CP will be centered between the centers & edges). This is the heart of the system.

You seem to be saying that the CB's center doesn't go where you think you point it. If that's the case, how do you aim straight-in shots?

pj
chgo
Click to expand...

I'm not sure I understand you or that you understand me so let me try again.

1. Place the 8 Ball on the spot such that one of its loops would surround the geometric CP (as you will see, it doesn't matter if it's the CP or the NCP)

2. Place the CB in front of the left side pocket, 1 diamond in from the rail.

3. Fall on the shot and imagine a gun sight on the top center of the CB. I place my chin nearly on the cue so the portion of the CB that appears as the top IS the top. Those who stand higher will use the most forward visible edge which will be forward of the true top but that shouldn't make any difference.

4. In any event, when you sight over the top center to the CP, the edges of the CB will be equidistant from the CP as well. So, if I disregarded the top center of the CB and just placed the CP centered between the CB's edges then the line of aim would be exactly the same. This is where we seem to misunderstand each other. But all I can say is that if you aim a gunsight at a spot, that spot will be centered between the edges of the barrel (between 3 and 9 o'clock.

NOTE: This just occurred to me. The above is ONLY true if the chin is on the same line as the cue! If you are Corr or Feijen, this method won't work at all because the top center of the CB in relation to the line the eyes
are on and the line that the cue is on is in two different places!

5. Finally, move the CB on the line determined by the gun sights to within, say a chalk width of the OB and use the same sighting technique...and you will miss the shot by a mile.

Not being an optical engineer, I can't explain why that is so and functionally, it doesn't matter.

There is, of course, a gray area...I can't tell you how many inches of distance begins to break the rifle sight method down...but if the shot just doesn't LOOK right (always too thick) then I just convert to aiming the edge of the CB in clock face fashion as many do routinely.

I personally don't like that system because gun sights are on the top of barrels not on the side...for very good reasons.

Does this explanation make more sense to you? I've done my best.

Regards,
Jim
 
Jim, I'm still having trouble understanding as well. What it seems like you're trying to say is to aim the center (or top center) of the cueball directly at the point where the collision takes place. If this is what you're saying, then please look at the 2-page diagram below. It shows that the collision point and the aiming point for anything other than a straight in shot are different. I think the first page illustrates the example you were describing. It shows that the collision point(contact point) is to the right of where the cueball center should be aiming. The most extreme example of this would be on an ultra thin cut. The second page shows big balls and the obvious difference between contact (5-ball/6-ball) and aiming points. Aiming the center of the cueball directly at the intended contact point will actually change the contact point to one resulting in a straighter than required shot. Am I reading your explanation wrong?

http://CueTable.com/P/?@4HALY1POEC4cALY3cchs1kOEC4kCHN1lOMC4lAcb@3ADfj3BEMR3CCpC4DAEA4EEkx4FCYJ4GJrD4HDGa4IBjp3JBKs4KKgW4LHGG4MKwn4NILN4OFaS1PNWo4QELi4aCYJ3acpr4fSKa3fOVF1kNWo4kGBE1mJfp1mQpm1mNHI1mKlr1mMQW1mQIl1mPkD1mOeI1mLsE1mKlj1mLCd1mNGV1mPCW1mPja1mQhi1mQps1mQhy1mPDH1mNgI1mMRI1mLDB1mKlt5mLbjzb@
 
Jeff...let's take one step at a time. You state that the CP and the aiming point are different except for straight in shots.

Why is that?

THANKS!
Jim
 
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av84fun said:
Jeff...let's take one step at a time. You state that the CP and the aiming point are different except for straight in shots.

Why is that?

THANKS!
Jim
Click to expand...

Hey Jim. The contact point, when viewed from behind the cueball, is midway between the center of the object ball and the point where you are sending the center of the cueball.
Wei's aiming table gives an easy visual of this. Drag the 9-ball around the table and you'll see the "X" that marks the contact point on the big 9-ball below the table remains halfway between the center of the ghost cueball(green dot) and the center of the 9-ball. I hope this clears up the point I was making.

http://cuetable.com/Software/BilliardAimingCalculator/index.htm
 
bluepepper said:
Hey Jim. The contact point, when viewed from behind the cueball, is midway between the center of the object ball and the point where you are sending the center of the cueball.
Wei's aiming table gives an easy visual of this. Drag the 9-ball around the table and you'll see the "X" that marks the contact point on the big 9-ball below the table remains halfway between the center of the ghost cueball(green dot) and the center of the 9-ball. I hope this clears up the point I was making.

http://cuetable.com/Software/BilliardAimingCalculator/index.htm
Click to expand...

Thanks Jeff. That's what I assumed you meant. Before continuing, let me just say that I have enormous respect for Wei's GREAT software and the many valuable uses it can be put to.

But let me just say that I think the worst ways to describe aiming systems are:

1. Writing about them without diagrams.

2. Small diagrams.

Conversely, the BEST way is to demonstrate the system in person and second to that would be close up video.

Having said that, here are my comments.

First, the Wei diagram certainly shows the precise angles in degrees for the GEOMETRIC contact point. But there are lots of top pros who couldn't tell you if the angle is 48 degress or 52 degrees and could care less. They just SEE the angles or have a system that renders knowing the degrees as irrelevant.

More importantly, except for relatively close in shots, contacting the geometric CP will NOT lead to pocketing the ball due to CIT as I am sure you know....assuming center ball tip contact.

Because of CIT, you must either use english or a thinner cut and since the system being discussed presumed center ball, then the CP must be adjusted to a new, thinner CP.

So, the diagram you posted is not useful for demonstrating a "baseline" aiming system assuming center ball tip contact.

OK...now forget all that and just assume, for sake of argument, that we have decided on where the correct CP is...assuming a center ball hit.

Now..how the hell do we aim so that the CB contacts that CP??? (or NCP as I call it.)

Please do the following on your home table or the next time you go to your local pool hall.

1. Place the 8 ball on the spot so that it's top loop is at its vertical center and pointing at the right point of the right corner pocket. That circle surrounds the NCP.

2. Place the CB 1 diamond out from the left side pocket so you have a cut to the right. Make sure that the CB's mark (circle, triangle, measle dot) is on the TOP center of the CB...i.e. it is pointing straight up.

3. Fall on the shot positioned for a center ball hit. You will see the mark on the top of the CB. That is your "gunsight."

4. Aim the gunsight directly at the upper circle on the 8 Ball which is our NCP. You will notice two things.

A. That the right and left edges of the CB at 3 and 9 o'clock are equidistant from the NCP...i.e. that the NCP is dead center between the SIDES of the CB. Some players use THAT sight picture...i.e. they place the CP so that it is centered between the SIDES of the CB. I THINK that is what Patrick suggested although it was difficult for me to parse his text. If that is not what he was suggesting, it is nevertheless true.

B. That the cue tip is also pointing at the NCP (more on that later.)

We know that by aiming in that way, the center of the CB (as viewed from the shooter's perspective) will NOT contact the CP...because the balls are round!

But that is irrelevant because if aimed as suggested above the CORRECT point of the CB WILL impact the NCP

If your are curious enough...just set up the shot as described and you will SEE what it looks like and can CONFIRM that the OB will go dead center.

You will also notice that no matter where you position the CB, the NCP, of course, never moves but it will ALWAYS be centered between the left/right edges of the CB.

The above is no different, really, than the "equal opposites" modification of the ghost ball method where the edges of the CB and OB are looked upon as clock faces and when the Ghost Ball is positioned correctly....THINNER than the geometric CP more most shots...the 1 o'clock position on the CB is aimed at the 11 o'clock (equally opposite) position on the OB's clock face.

I mentioned the fact that the tip points at the same place as the gunsight.
The value of that information is that creating a fictitious CP in your mind's eye is difficult enough but KEEPING it where it belongs is even more difficult...especially if you use (as I think everyone should) a standard eye movement routine where your focus shifts back and forth from OB to CB and back during the warmup strokes,

For that and other reasons, KEEPING the CP put is tricky....BUT, as you initially aim as above, you will SEE where the tip points and that is very valuable information.

On the above shot, the tip will point about one tip radius from the dead center of the FACE of the OB. Knowing that, you can get up off the shot...think things over...scratch your head or whatever else needs scratching...go take a leak...whatever...but you DO NOT have to created a another fictitious NCP because you already know to just aim your tip, one tip to the left and blast away.

EXCEPTIONS:

1. If you are going to use outside english, you don't need an NCP...just aim at the geo CP.

2. If you are going to use inside english an NCP on the THICK side may be required.

The above two issues are true for all aiming systems of which I am aware because the OB is going to depart along different lines.

3. The system breaks down as the CB/OB get very close. I haven't really tested to determine exactly where but certainly, within a ball width, the system will produce a too thick hit.

At that point...which is obvious, there are other systems to use...and I think Bob Jewett has written on them.

I simply attempt to imagine the FRONT surface of the CB and aim so that front surface will impact the correct CP.

Man...this is THE best I can do to explain it. To me, it's the most obvious thing in the world but with the limitations of the written word and my abilities in using them it may be as clear as mud to everyone else.

But if you just TRY it, it will all become immediately clear.

Regards,
Jim
 
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