New Coin Table for a Bar

[jack146]

I first asked this question in a newsgroup, and someone there recommended that I come here. I am including the urls for certain tables because people at the newsgroup had never heard of them.

I am in the process of purchasing an 8 foot coin-op table for a bar. I first looked at a table I saw in a brochure I received, probably as a result of all my on-line searches. I would also prefer that the table was able to accept both coins and bills, but not the bill reader that allows free play, happy hour, etc., settings. Those high tech bill readers add over $1,000 to the price.

The table in the brochure was a Wrangler, which I first thought was a Valley model and can be seen here:
http://www6.mailordercentral.com/bumpertube/products.asp?dept=1035

Another I looked at was The Challenger seen here with a few others:
http://www.coin-operated-pool-tables.com/pages/coin_operated_pool_tables.html

Of course I was also looking at Valley tables, but I am on the East Coast and every Valley vendor I found was on the West Coast sending shipping costs sky high. The Valley Black Cat and Great 8 tables are identical, but the Great 8 has that high tech coin reader and adds $1,200 to the price.

Where can I find a site that that sells a simple coin/bill acceptance device that will fit the table I finally buy?

I couldn’t even find prices for the Diamond Smart Tables and someone also named another table comparable to the Diamond, but I can’t find that note nor remember the name. I think it began with a ‘G’.

 

[cuejoey]

IMO i wouldn't buy a plywood surface table especially for a bar...any damage to the surface will leave a permanent groove/gouge which would effect the roll of the balls...aren't Vally tables slate ?

 

[realkingcobra]

I first asked this question in a newsgroup, and someone there recommended that I come here. I am including the urls for certain tables because people at the newsgroup had never heard of them.

I am in the process of purchasing an 8 foot coin-op table for a bar. I first looked at a table I saw in a brochure I received, probably as a result of all my on-line searches. I would also prefer that the table was able to accept both coins and bills, but not the bill reader that allows free play, happy hour, etc., settings. Those high tech bill readers add over $1,000 to the price.

The table in the brochure was a Wrangler, which I first thought was a Valley model and can be seen here:
http://www6.mailordercentral.com/bumpertube/products.asp?dept=1035
Another I looked at was The Challenger seen here with a few others:
http://www.coin-operated-pool-tables.com/pages/coin_operated_pool_tables.html

Of course I was also looking at Valley tables, but I am on the East Coast and every Valley vendor I found was on the West Coast sending shipping costs sky high. The Valley Black Cat and Great 8 tables are identical, but the Great 8 has that high tech coin reader and adds $1,200 to the price.

Where can I find a site that that sells a simple coin/bill acceptance device that will fit the table I finally buy?

I couldn’t even find prices for the Diamond Smart Tables and someone also named another table comparable to the Diamond, but I can’t find that note nor remember the name. I think it began with a ‘G’.

A bill accepter is just not a reality for most pool tables as they have to work on batteries or 110volts. It's much easier to just use 1$ coins, then quarters if you want to charge more.

Call Brian, head of sales at Diamond 1-812-288-7665, by the way, they're in Indiana.

Glen

 

[jack146]

IMO i wouldn't buy a plywood surface table especially for a bar...any damage to the surface will leave a permanent groove/gouge which would effect the roll of the balls...aren't Vally tables slate ?

All the tables I mentioned are slate tables.

 

[jack146]

A bill accepter is just not a reality for most pool tables as they have to work on batteries or 110volts. It's much easier to just use 1$ coins, then quarters if you want to charge more.

Call Brian, head of sales at Diamond 1-812-288-7665, by the way, they're in Indiana.

Glen

I placed the bill reader last because it is was the least deciding factor, I was really hoping to find someone who was acquainted with the two "unknowns", the Wrangler and the Challenger and could tell me how they stacked up against the Valley tables.

 

[Secaucus Fats]

Jack,

I think you should take a look at the Great American tables. I play a lot of barbox pool and I honestly feel that short of the Diamond Smart tables, Great American is the best coin op out there.

Fats

 

[realkingcobra]

I placed the bill reader last because it is was the least deciding factor, I was really hoping to find someone who was acquainted with the two "unknowns", the Wrangler and the Challenger and could tell me how they stacked up against the Valley tables.

The Global Challenger is better than anything else on the market as a coin-op, but...it's not a Diamond. I've sold plenty of Global Challenger tables in the past, as well as I continue to sell them today. I only sell the 2 coin-ops that I'm speaking of, because I've not been impressed with any others...not even the Great American...which is a knockoff Valley, which still don't have a free play bypass system...unlike Diamond or Global.

Glen

PS. I've worked on in the last 23 years, more than 20 different kinds of coin operated tables from as many different manufactures. I use to place Global down at the bottom of the list, now I place them near the top, with Diamond being the best of them all.

 

[realkingcobra]

The wrangler is a knock off version of the 1990 Valley tables.

 

[jack146]

Jack,

I think you should take a look at the Great American tables. I play a lot of barbox pool and I honestly feel that short of the Diamond Smart tables, Great American is the best coin op out there.

Fats

Thanks, I will give the Great American a look, that was on my original list.

 

[jack146]

The Global Challenger is better than anything else on the market as a coin-op, but...it's not a Diamond. I've sold plenty of Global Challenger tables in the past, as well as I continue to sell them today. I only sell the 2 coin-ops that I'm speaking of, because I've not been impressed with any others...not even the Great American...which is a knockoff Valley, which still don't have a free play bypass system...unlike Diamond or Global.

Glen

PS. I've worked on in the last 23 years, more than 20 different kinds of coin operated tables from as many different manufactures. I use to place Global down at the bottom of the list, now I place them near the top, with Diamond being the best of them all.

You sell Diamond tables? If you sell the Diamonds, why did you recommend me to Brian? From what I am seeing so far I am leaning towards your suggestions for the Diamond or Challenger, so why shouldn't I buy from you?

Also, two more questions.

What happened that made the Challenger go from hated to favored

Do you know of another table that is similar to and comparable to the Diamond in many ways? I can't find where I saw someone mention both tables in the same message.

 

[realkingcobra]

You sell Diamond tables? If you sell the Diamonds, why did you recommend me to Brian? From what I am seeing so far I am leaning towards your suggestions for the Diamond or Challenger, so why shouldn't I buy from you?

Also, two more questions.

What happened that made the Challenger go from hated to favored

Do you know of another table that is similar to and comparable to the Diamond in many ways? I can't find where I saw someone mention both tables in the same message.

I don't work for Diamond, I deliver Diamond tables through my own business, so when it comes to sales, Brian's the man to talk to, I do however sell Global tables, and only the Challengers as that's all I'm interested in selling from Global. Global really improved the Challenger from when they first started making them to the table they are today, in my opinion a much better table than a Valley, which really says little for anyone who builds a knockoff Valley table, like Great American as well as others.

The only other table even kind of like a Diamond is the Gabriel coin-operated table which I wouldn't touch or even offer to sell as I don't like the memory system used to separate the balls...it's bullshit...change cue balls or object balls and you have to reprogram the system again...every time.

No matter what table you buy, in 5 years from now, unless it's a Diamond Smart Table, it's going to be going outdated and have far less value than if you just say screw it and buy a Diamond table to begin with, as it really IS the best table on the market...now...and years from now...hands down!

Glen

PS, the attraction to play on a Diamond table, can not be matched by ANY other coin-operated pool table in existence today.

 

[Dartman]

A bar and only getting 1 table?
Find an amusement operator to put one in and split the quarters.
Get one of the beer people to furnish a light.
No investment on your part other then space, cleaning and electric for the light. The operator does the table and cue maintenance and provides the chalk and recovering when needed.
Most operators are always looking for new stops or stop add-ons.

 

[jack146]

The only other table even kind of like a Diamond is the Gabriel

Gabriel, that is the name, OK I pass on that one.

I am beginning to find the people at Diamond may be a bit arrogant. I sent them an e-mail question over a week ago and they never even answered me. I went back to try again just now and remembered they won't even supply an e-mail address. I tried to send using their form, but didn't put in my phone number. They wouldn't accept the message.

Their site has no prices nor views of the tables, but I noticed this:

DIAMOND PROUDLY OFFERS A FULL LINE OF TABLE
CHOICES THAT APPEAL TO EVERYONE FROM THE
CASUAL TO THE PROFESSIONAL PLAYER. DIAMOND
CRAFTSMAN BUILD TABLES IN VARIOUS SIZES.
OUR LINE INCLUDES: 7’ (40” X 80”), 8’ HOME (44” X 88”),
8’ PR0 (46” X 92”) AND 9’ PRO (50” X 100”).

That gave me the impression they do not make 8' coin-ops.

 

[jack146]

A bar and only getting 1 table?
Find an amusement operator to put one in and split the quarters.
Get one of the beer people to furnish a light.
No investment on your part other then space, cleaning and electric for the light. The operator does the table and cue maintenance and provides the chalk and recovering when needed.
Most operators are always looking for new stops or stop add-ons.

If a table takes in only $20 a day, that is $7,300 a year. You don't think it is worth $3,650 a year to have MY choice of NEW table and to pay someone three or four hundred dollars to come in once a year to recover the table with MY choice of cloth and maybe have to spend another $100 a year to replace cues and chalk?

The 50% of the first year alone pays for the table and leaves me with something to sell later on, not just return it to the vendor.

 

[jack146]

Something else I forgot, given a choice of cloth for the table, I imagine first choice would be Simonis, but what weight would you recommend?

 

[Secaucus Fats]

Something else I forgot, given a choice of cloth for the table, I imagine first choice would be Simonis, but what weight would you recommend?

If you go with Simonis then get 860 cloth.

Championship 3030 Tour Edition would also be a good choice. At 24 oz, it's a heavier cloth than 860, so it wears a bit longer and the speed is about the same.

Gorina Granito Basalt is also a nice fast cloth. It is a 28oz cloth and it wears well.

Bottom line is all of the above are quite good. IMO it's a matter of which is priced better.

Fats

 

[Dartman]

If a table takes in only $20 a day, that is $7,300 a year. You don't think it is worth $3,650 a year to have MY choice of NEW table and to pay someone three or four hundred dollars to come in once a year to recover the table with MY choice of cloth and maybe have to spend another $100 a year to replace cues and chalk?
The 50% of the first year alone pays for the table and leaves me with something to sell later on, not just return it to the vendor.

If you plan to post a security guard at the table to prevent people from spilling drinks, stealing balls and chalk, divoting and ripping the cloth with masse and draw shots they can't do, kicking the table because they're pissed, slamming cues around and knocking tips off, etc, etc then by all means spend the money for YOUR choice of table that the customers could probably care less about as long as it plays well.
Plan on cloth replacement twice a year so double that 3-4 hundred. Good house cues run about $20ea. Figure $12-15ea to replace cue balls, 8 balls, 9 balls, 5 balls, etc that walk out the door and while a ball is missing the table takes no quarters. I could go on but the point is that the unknown problems and variables will cost more than you think.
The majority of bar people are used to playing on Valleys and that is what most operators use. We owned a bar and our route guy was in every Thur to clean and maintain the tables, cues and balls. He carried spare, freshly tipped cues in his van and swapped them out as needed.
Our investment = $0
When we closed the bar we called - they came and got all their equipment so there was no hassle of trying to sell pool tables.
It's something to consider rather then forking over your own $$.

 

[realkingcobra]

Gabriel, that is the name, OK I pass on that one.

I am beginning to find the people at Diamond may be a bit arrogant. I sent them an e-mail question over a week ago and they never even answered me. I went back to try again just now and remembered they won't even supply an e-mail address. I tried to send using their form, but didn't put in my phone number. They wouldn't accept the message.

Yes, Diamond now makes an 8' coin-op. Diamond also recieves 100's of emails so Brian may not have gotten to yours yet, but if you'd like, I might be able to assist you with what you're looking for, as I also work for 2 finance companies. You are 100% right about buying your table instead of seeing 50% of the money walking out the door to a vendor. No matter how you look at it, if you took 50% of the money made, and payed it out to support the table for a year, you're still the one counting your OWN money...and you're still going to own the table eventually, AND...would a vendor buy a Diamond for you to vend?

Glen

 

[Bigtruck]

Diamond....

Gabriel, that is the name, OK I pass on that one.

I am beginning to find the people at Diamond may be a bit arrogant. I sent them an e-mail question over a week ago and they never even answered me. I went back to try again just now and remembered they won't even supply an e-mail address. I tried to send using their form, but didn't put in my phone number. They wouldn't accept the message.

Yes, Diamond now makes an 8' coin-op. Diamond also recieves 100's of emails so Brian may not have gotten to yours yet, but if you'd like, I might be able to assist you with what you're looking for, as I also work for 2 finance companies. You are 100% right about buying your table instead of seeing 50% of the money walking out the door to a vendor. No matter how you look at it, if you took 50% of the money made, and payed it out to support the table for a year, you're still the one counting your OWN money...and you're still going to own the table eventually, AND...would a vendor buy a Diamond for you to vend?

Glen

I recently bought a table from Brian and I found the best way to reach him is to call. I usually had to leave a message. He IS spread really thin. We did hook up and I received my table as agreed.

If you want a product that is in high demand, it will require some patience and perseverance. Definetely worth the effort.

Ray.

Here is their number -

Diamond Billiard Products
Phone: 812-288-7665

 

[Dartman]

You are 100% right about buying your table instead of seeing 50% of the money walking out the door to a vendor. No matter how you look at it, if you took 50% of the money made, and payed it out to support the table for a year, you're still the one counting your OWN money...and you're still going to own the table eventually, AND...would a vendor buy a Diamond for you to vend?Glen

You make it sound like some holy grail to own the table - which - after a year or 2 in a bar environment getting beat up will be worth much less that you think. After you've owned a bar for a few years let me know the real dollar profit from having one diamond table in a "bar" environment. We had Valleys with $0 investment or headaches and made a nice income from them. To each his own.