New cue, Bender or Capone

[classiccues]

just think of any cue maker from the 70's or 80' that does not make mitred spliced points any more.

as far as them convincing you that is is more difficult proves my point.

as far as cost goes theyr deffinetly pulling your leg and even if it did cost more the extra $2 is nothing to talk about.
but let me try to figger that out....veneer from woodriver $5 a square foot it takes almost 1 foot per color ... that would be 20 bucks for 4 colors .
i dont know any wood that would have that much cost.
i know snake wood.... but i dont see them re cutting that its all cheaper wood
(price not quality) ebony and wild wood is probably the most expensive theyr using.

20 bucks for 4 colors in 4 points, you should get all 4 points from one sheet, so you are using 4 sheets.
Snakewood veneers would cost about 30 dollars for 4 "point pieces", if you had a cue that was ebony, snakewood, pink ivory and maple it would cost 100 for the points alone. (just hung up the phone with Skip to verify)
One reason is you waste the entire center section of the wood. So you need to start out with a 1 x 2 piece, basically, and work it down.
He also said once the veneers are pressed into the color combination, and you cut the mitre you also are only dealing with three pieces.

Joe

 

[spanky981]

mmmmm.... boy this is tough bill,dan,dick,david,jerry,paul,tom,gordon,bob

come on you buy thousand dollar cues and you need to ask that.

I know who bill and dan are but who are the rest?

 

[classiccues]

just think of any cue maker from the 70's or 80' that does not make mitred spliced points any more.

as far as them convincing you that is is more difficult proves my point.

mmmmm.... boy this is tough bill,dan,dick,david,jerry,paul,tom,gordon,bob

But none of these guys traded in mitre points for recuts. The majority traded them in for CNC.

Joe

 

[merylane]

But none of these guys traded in mitre points for recuts. The majority traded them in for CNC.

Joe

and skip traded them for re cuts?

and like i mentioned before your just accepting what they say.

and of course an example with the most expensive woods might be $100 like you say although i dought it.

is the majority of what he makes made from those woods? no theyr cheper priced woods like i already mentioned.

i could always say well gold veneers would cost $XXXXX but that wouldnt be realistic.

joe im supprized about how you sound about some of it. knowing how you feel and think about the type of cue you like. you know old school traditional.
i understand you have to tip toe alittle and dont want to step on anyones toe.

 

[Hit Man]

Hello everyone, i'm interested in a new cue. One with 16 points or more with veeners. I'm down to two cue makers; Capone and Bender. The only down side i have is i haven't hit with either one! I have owned southwest, coker, schon, McDaniel, and Gilbert. I like the hit of my Gilbert and Southwest the best so i'm after that feel again. Please if you have owned a Bender or Capone and could give me some idea of how they compare to some of the cues i've listed please post. Let me no about balance points, hit (feel), and craftmanship of cue.

Also, if you have any other cue maker suggestions please feel free to drop some names.

Thanks,

cbi,

Both cue makers Bender and Capone have a hit "to die" for. My cousin makes some teriffic playing cues as well constucted as they are beautiful. Both have first rate finishes and workmanship. I have had the experience of playing with both of them. The overall better value in my opinion may be the Capone. Presently I use a Scruggs, chosen over both of them, including Michael's. It's only a matter of preference. The Capone hits firm with excellent feedback and natural balance. The Bender hits a little softer, but definately solid, like a tank! You won't go wrong with either choice in my book. Just remember a lot of what you feel in a cue depends on the tip and ferrule selection which both of these cuemakers can advise you on before selecting.
Good Luck!

 

[classiccues]

and skip traded them for re cuts?

and like i mentioned before your just accepting what they say.

and of course an example with the most expensive woods might be $100 like you say although i dought it.

is the majority of what he makes made from those woods? no theyr cheper priced woods like i already mentioned.

i could always say well gold veneers would cost $XXXXX but that wouldnt be realistic.

joe im supprized about how you sound about some of it. knowing how you feel and think about the type of cue you like. you know old school traditional.
i understand you have to tip toe alittle and dont want to step on anyones toe.

I am not tip toeing... No Skip never did it any other way.. he didn't like traditional veneers because of the fact at the time most were holly, a wood he doesn't like. Suprised about what? I do like traditional cues but I won't lie and say that recuts are easier. Its just wrong. I acutally like both, I don't like CNC.

Joe

 

[buddha162]

mmmmm.... boy this is tough bill,dan,dick,david,jerry,paul,tom,gordon,bob

So let me get this straight.

You're saying that cuemakers abandoned the traditional veneered points because they are that much harder to execute than recut points.

And, they are all in on a conspiracy to convince us that recuts are actually harder, more difficult, more expensive.

Did I get that right?

-Roger

 

[RSB-Refugee]

I know who bill and dan are but who are the rest?

merrylane wrote;
mmmmm.... boy this is tough bill,dan,dick,david,jerry,paul,tom,gordon,bob

How many points for each right answer?
Bill Stroud
Dan Janes
Richard Helmstetter
David Kersenbrock?
Jerry Pechauer?
Paul?
Tom?
Gordon Hart
Bob Meucci
Most of the above, do flat bottom points (CNC), not re-cuts. Re-cuts are V bottomed points, much different than CNC flat bottom points.

Tracy

 

[merylane]

most have done it do do things faster, easier, to make more profit.
nothing wrong with that.
but the fact is theyr trying to create the look or illusion of veneered spliced points, thats easier to execute.

the "cnc" comments have no place here because no matter, what cues are made on machines ALL OF WHICH COULD BE CNC'd

if the only reason was cause they switched to cnc then why did they switch the way they were making them????????

why didnt they just keep doing "V" points but with a cnc?

just read my last ? a couple of times....... and think.

and if someone didnt like a certain wood.... why not use a different wood instead of a different method. im all for progress but not using an excuse that does not make sense for changing something.

not to mention i dont ever remember a time when holly was the only veneer available? or even a cue made with only holly veneers. hhhmmmmm........

 

[JoeyInCali]

why didnt they just keep doing "V" points but with a cnc?

If it were possible ( I don't know it can be) it'd still take a lot more work and time.
Inlayed cnc'd points are much easier .

 

[classiccues]

most have done it do do things faster, easier, to make more profit. nothing wrong with that.
but the fact is theyr trying to create the look or illusion of veneered spliced points, thats easier to execute

It is not easier to execute recuts or hardwood veneered cues, I have no idea where you are getting this notion from. Besides the switch to CNC, when dealing with production shops is for speed. Not all custom cuemakers will agree that cnc is faster.

why didnt they just keep doing "V" points but with a cnc?

Cause it cannot be done.

not to mention i dont ever remember a time when holly was the only veneer available? or even a cue made with only holly veneers. hhhmmmmm........

Holly and sycamore have long been the only wood veneers available in the colors commonly used in cuemaking.

Joe

 

[merylane]

If it were possible ( I don't know it can be) it'd still take a lot more work and time.
Inlayed cnc'd points are much easier .

boy i hate to sound mean but this is one of the dumbest &$%#@(*&$% statements ive ever read.
if it were possible, what machine have you ever seen that could not be cnc??

 

[JoeyInCali]

boy i hate to sound mean but this is one of the dumbest &$%#@(*&$% statements ive ever read.
if it were possible, what machine have you ever seen that could not be cnc??

Show me a pic of a 90-degree cutter ( side-cutter ) that's cnc fed.

 

[JoeyInCali]

why didnt they just keep doing "V" points but with a cnc?

Cause it cannot be done.
Are you sure Joe?
Merylane might have seen one done.

 

[merylane]

#%^&*%#@%^^&^

It is not easier to execute recuts or hardwood veneered cues, I have no idea where you are getting this notion from. Besides the switch to CNC, when dealing with production shops is for speed. Not all custom cuemakers will agree that cnc is faster.

whats the other reason they have a cnc then?

once again your getting your leg pulled, and for some reason you mention someone you say doesnt do mitred veneered points and you take his word for it? how could he know if he doesnt do it?

Cause it cannot be done.

gee most do it on a mill but i guess it couldnt be a cnc mill cnc indexed and operated huh.? gee i think some machining centers even auto laod. so please explain what cant be done.

Holly and sycamore have long been the only wood veneers available in the colors commonly used in cuemaking.

if your example still does not use dyed wood then i dont know what that statement has to do with it. not to mention some of the woods he does use have the same properties so that makes it evenmore confusing.


Joe

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[buddha162]

fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff

well, I'm sure joe has nothing to say to that.

-Roger

 

[classiccues]

ML writes:
whats the other reason they have a cnc then?

Repeatability...

gee most do it on a mill but i guess it couldnt be a cnc mill cnc indexed and operated huh.? gee i think some machining centers even auto laod. so please explain what cant be done.

Because of all the setups I have seen, there would be nothing gained in making this part of the machining CNC when cutting the v splice.

if your example still does not use dyed wood then i dont know what that statement has to do with it. not to mention some of the woods he does use have the same properties so that makes it evenmore confusing.

Actually he would disagree. But either way that was the reason and thats that.

Back to the point, (no pun intended) when doing recuts its more labor intensive than veneering and I don't think there is a cuemaker alive that would say different. It also gives you a wider range of materials now, especially if using wildwoods, burls and the like.

Joe

 

[Murray Tucker]

Apples and oranges

ML writes:
whats the other reason they have a cnc then?

Repeatability...

gee most do it on a mill but i guess it couldnt be a cnc mill cnc indexed and operated huh.? gee i think some machining centers even auto laod. so please explain what cant be done.

Because of all the setups I have seen, there would be nothing gained in making this part of the machining CNC when cutting the v splice.

if your example still does not use dyed wood then i dont know what that statement has to do with it. not to mention some of the woods he does use have the same properties so that makes it evenmore confusing.

Actually he would disagree. But either way that was the reason and thats that.

Back to the point, (no pun intended) when doing recuts its more labor intensive than veneering and I don't think there is a cuemaker alive that would say different. It also gives you a wider range of materials now, especially if using wildwoods, burls and the like.

Joe

Just making sure that everyone is on the same page here. Are we talking about this kind of re-cut point:

http://www.billiardwarehouse.com/cues/mcdermott/mcderm_m3-3a.htm

or this kind:

http://www.billiardwarehouse.com/cueobsessions/nitti/images/nitti-1.htm

I do re-cut points like the second example and in my oppinion they are harder and more time consuming than mitered veneers.

 

[RSB-Refugee]

Just making sure that everyone is on the same page here. Are we talking about this kind of re-cut point:

It started out about Mike Bender, so everyone was talking about your second example. I do think someone is confused in their terminology though

I do re-cut points like the second example and in my oppinion they are harder and more time consuming than mitered veneers.

You aren't part of the conspiracy too, are you?

Tracy

 

[SCCues]

Bender or Capone?

Hello everyone, i'm interested in a new cue. One with 16 points or more with veeners. I'm down to two cue makers; Capone and Bender. The only down side i have is i haven't hit with either one! I have owned southwest, coker, schon, McDaniel, and Gilbert. I like the hit of my Gilbert and Southwest the best so i'm after that feel again. Please if you have owned a Bender or Capone and could give me some idea of how they compare to some of the cues i've listed please post. Let me no about balance points, hit (feel), and craftmanship of cue.

Also, if you have any other cue maker suggestions please feel free to drop some names.

Thanks,

You've narrowed your selection down to two very good cue makers. I've owned and played with a Bender and a Capone cue. I don't think you can go wrong with either cue. They both play well and they are made to the highest standards.

SCCues