New Cue (Filipino Custom) Opinions wanted.

JoeyInCali said:
Question: It's not ok to make a Mcdanielesque cue but, is it OK for McD to do a Gus Szambottisque cue?
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that depends on some underlying factors. as a designer there are a couple trains of thought imo. bill and others like him have not reached legendary status and have yet to establish a specific "art form" for their work. Gus has and is part of cue making history and every cue made by other makers that showcases his work is obviously a testament to him. this is what i meant earlier by educating yourself on the work out there. i have chosen to create with a sense of flow and form not dictated buy previous cue design so copying my work is much easier to judge. to answer i don't think its right to exactly copy someones work unless they have the consent of either the maker, the makers successor or the work is an obvious testament to a legendary maker who has no successor and the bulk of their cues are not "testaments". truth is i don't know what conversations have transpired between other makes, G and/or his successor with some of them who use these designs. there are many who "copy" G's work and i'm not sure of two things. one, are the designs they are copying actually G's, meaning did he "invent" the specific look and/or as stated earlier do they have permission from him or his successor. these play a part. if you're asking if i would condone this without these factors i say no. i do believe though there are certain aspects of cue making that are grandfathered for the good of future cue making and as i said in a previous thread they can include the four, six or eight point cue with or without veneers, the southwest style joint, the standard delrin butt cap, standard shapes like diamonds, dots, boxes, most joint types ect.... and maybe someday joe gold's fancy point and many more. the trick for future makers is how they use or not use these to create art of their own.
 
skins said:
you can express your opinion all you want because thats what an open forum is but the facts are still the facts and you don't have them. do a search on this site for cue design theft and see what you come with. this maker stole from another and it should not be condoned by anyone buyer or seller. his feeble attempt at the design was terrible and as a designer i can see that as well as most other high end collectors will also. also you can insult my designs all you want that just shows you don't have an eye for design. i've proven myself by being asked to work with some of the greatest cue makers alive what have you done? as far as asking another cue maker to copy another cue makers design you will find that most truly respectable makers won't do it period. i'm sick and tired of lazy cue makers making a living off of our backs and the buyers who don't make themselves educated enough to know better. you know it's kind of like Rolex going after all the makers and buyers of fake Rolex watches. my point is if you can't afford a Picasso then buy a Smith. don't keep feeding these thieves with money made from the work of others who have spent many hours to deserve it. what i meant by the cue finding the right buyer is one who obviously is not involved enough in the cue world to know any better. i'm not saying that you have to know who designed every cue but there are obvious ones out there and allot more can be determined just by being more involved on this site. ya know i never did give my opinion on the cue itself so here it goes... the design has potential if cleaned up a little, the forearm is too short, the sleeve with butt cap too long and the bumper is too big and gaudy. how's that?
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Damn..kinda harsh dont you think ...hmm lets see.. "I dont have an eye for design".. "what have i done"... i never said for some one to go and have another cue maker copy a design...i just stated that people will find a way to get what they want..i dont encourage or support the copying of a cue of another cuemaker..but you kinda proved my point...i dont like cues that have alot of intricate inlay work..i can appreciate the hard work that goes into it and agree that the hard work can justify the price..but its just my personal taste...but you slamed me and said i dont know design...i have a two friends that design cues...one post on here K.Varney...i love his design and work..I know Todd E. of parrot cue who i commend every chance i get to see him of the work he puts into his cues that I have seen out and about.I own a original Parrot..when Dave owned the shop so i CAN appreciate great work. I dont go around insulting people either ..I see you made amends with the guy whose cue(although copied which i dont support) you called ugly..i will leave it at that but still think you jumped on my kind hard and premature..but there again just my two cents......but hey no hard feelings..got no issue with you SKINS... And since drinks are going round..the first round of IRISH CAR BOMBS are on me...
 
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skins said:
i believe this is a copy of Bill McDaniel's "Horseshoe" cue seen in the link below. what i can't understand is why non traditional cue makers can't come up with their own design work. worst of all they change things up slightly like make the design thicker in places and other things that ruin the design and make the cue look terrible. compare this cue to Bill's and you will see the big difference. the one in this thread looks bulky and not symmetrical and Bills looks perfect. why change it up any? if your gonna steal you might as well do it smartly. you can't improve on perfection. the maker now looks worse because he not only stole a design so he would not have to spend the time to get one right on his own but then butchers it. it's so funny and yet it's not. allot of them live off the hard work of others. this is this another case of blatant design theft.
http://www.billmcdaniel.com/horseshoe_full.htm
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Were is your information coming from? I went the link you posted, there is no date or time frame when Bill made his cue.

How do you know who made design first? Have you talked to Bill and asked when the cue was made or are you speculating?

Even if you are correct, it really is not important, almost every cue maker in the world has taken designs from either cue makers past or present.

Even bill, uses Bushka rings in his designs, is that really so bad, or should it be considered that copy is only an expression of how good the original actually is, at least in the eyes of the copier.

You say that you can't improve on perfection, but perfection its self can only be based on the eye of the beholder.

I suspect that really everything you have said is nothing more than your opinion, and while you are entitled to it, I totally disagree with it, I also think that you should relax, getting that stressed out is bad for your health.
 
manwon said:
Were is your information coming from? I went the link you posted, there is no date or time frame when Bill made his cue.

How do you know who made design first? Have you talked to Bill and asked when the cue was made or are you speculating?

Even if you are correct, it really is not important, almost every cue maker in the world has taken designs from either cue makers past or present.

Even bill, uses Bushka rings in his designs, is that really so bad, or should it be considered that copy is only an expression of how good the original actually is, at least in the eyes of the copier.

You say that you can't improve on perfection, but perfection its self can only be based on the eye of the beholder.

I suspect that really everything you have said is nothing more than your opinion, and while you are entitled to it, I totally disagree with it, I also think that you should relax, getting that stressed out is bad for your health.
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read my post a couple up from yours and this will explain my thoughts on what i think is allowable copying. as far as knowing if it is Bill's, your right, i don't know for sure but Bills cue was made a while ago and i had not seen anything like it before and i keep myself more aware that most on new work. as i stated before if it were not Bills and he did not have permission to use it i would say the same thing to him too and make amends with others. that being said i'm 99% sure it's Bills. and yes your right again and i am much more calm now. thx "doc"
 
quitecoolguy said:
Damn..kinda harsh dont you think ...hmm lets see.. "I dont have an eye for design".. "what have i done"... i never said for some one to go and have another cue maker copy a design...i just stated that people will find a way to get what they want..i dont encourage or support the copying of a cue of another cuemaker..but you kinda proved my point...i dont like cues that have alot of intricate inlay work..i can appreciate the hard work that goes into it and agree that the hard work can justify the price..but its just my personal taste...but you slamed me and said i dont know design...i have a two friends that design cues...one post on here K.Varney...i love his design and work..I know Todd E. of parrot cue who i commend every chance i get to see him of the work he puts into his cues that I have seen out and about.I own a original Parrot..when Dave owned the shop so i CAN appreciate great work. I dont go around insulting people either ..I see you made amends with the guy whose cue(although copied which i dont support) you called ugly..i will leave it at that but still think you jumped on my kind hard and premature..but there again just my two cents......but hey no hard feelings..got no issue with you SKINS... And since drinks are going round..the first round of IRISH CAR BOMBS are on me...
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take back the "IRISH CAR BOMBS" and i'll take back the "no eye for design" deal? the gentlemen you mention do good work and in know way are any of my comments a slight to them. no hard feelings just got in a little deffensive mode for all the hard work i do for some great cuemakers that have been ripped off and i have yet to see a penny from any of these people and never will. once again let's let this go because beer and bomb's don't mix.;)
 
well.. they did ask for everybodies opinions...

and Irish car bomb is a drink.. where you drop a shot of baileys irish cream into a glass of guinness.. its a rather interesting drink..

cement mixers are always fun...

chris
 
ChrisOnline said:
well.. they did ask for everybodies opinions...

and Irish car bomb is a drink.. where you drop a shot of baileys irish cream into a glass of guinness.. its a rather interesting drink..

cement mixers are always fun...

chris
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then i stand corrected and my retraction stands alone and after a few bombs and beers i won't be standing well at all. ;)
 
Irish Car Bombs are great. You have to drink it quick though, the Bailey's will curdle in the Guiness otherwise.
 
yeah...who ever came up with that drink is an evil evil person..i will never ...i was getting ready to tell a lie..but t will be a while before i drink another one of those ..
 
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