New Diamonds - Dissenting Opinion?

Mr. Wiggles said:
Problem is now we will have the old short banking tables and the new Improved ? Tables! Every table will not be upgraded.
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First of all, upgrades are a choice, not a requirement...of the customer...every Diamond out here is playable;)

If they are going to FIX them then it should be like a recall in the auto industry.
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Like the AUTO industry?...when has a pool table ever put your LIFE in danger driving it down the freeway?...since the only time the auto industry has a recall...is when "Life or Limb" are at stake;)

And how do they FIX the rails? Sounds simple to adjust the angle with some type of washer or gizmo from the factory. Realkingcobra ain't going to like that simple comment is he?
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If it were as simple as the placement of a washer somewhere under the rails we wouldn't be having this conversation now would we? No, it's not that easy, if it were, then special tooling wouldn't be required. What some people fail to understand, is that the nose height of the cushions is correct, it's the alignment of the cushion behind the nose height that needs to be changed....and that requires removing the cushions, changing the profile of the sub-rails, then reinstalling the cushions over again...to the same nose height...no washer placement is going to get that done;)

Something no one has mentioned and I think is one of the biggest attributes to Diamonds is the consistency from table to table.
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Aside from consistency, there is also correctness to consider. I've always said that no matter which Gold Crown I'm playing on...being that it's a GC...I've always felt that they should all play the same....being a Brunswick and all...know what I mean?...but we all know they don't...they don't even play the same from table to table in the same pool room;)

Two huge rooms in Vegas with 175-200 tables in each room and they all play pretty much the same. Very little complaining. If you had the older short banking table, how much would the FIX cost. I assume it would be mostly labor or is there a parts cost?
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Yes, while it's mostly labor to perform the change in the rails, it's best to have the change done when the table is in need of having the cloth changed already. Cost?...like always, that depends on who's doing the work....I don't set the fee's for such work...but I do remind the table mechanic's that I've trained how to perform this kind of work...."don't sell the skills short that I've shared with you, as this kind of work will not become part of a price war between mechanic's...because only THEY have the skills";) and they all know not to pass on these skills to any others without my OK first, because this was a gift to them....not to be shared;) Each and everyone of them knows the reasons why they made this agreement, which is...and will remain between us, as I have my reasons. If that bothers someone, all I can say is...I'm sorry, but that's my choice;)

Glen
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Mr. Wiggles said:
Lots of great posts. Diamonds bank short, that's the way it is. Bugs me to, and hope the fix really works. Problem is now we will have the old short banking tables and the new Improved ? Tables! Every table will not be upgraded. If they are going to FIX them then it should be like a recall in the auto industry. And how do they FIX the rails? Sounds simple to adjust the angle with some type of washer or gizmo from the factory. Realkingcobra ain't going to like that simple comment is he? Something no one has mentioned and I think is one of the biggest attributes to Diamonds is the consistency from table to table. Two huge rooms in Vegas with 175-200 tables in each room and they all play pretty much the same. Very little complaining. If you had the older short banking table, how much would the FIX cost. I assume it would be mostly labor or is there a parts cost?
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in the auto industry, every year a new model comes out and changes and improvements are expected.
 
TheBook said:
What I don't understand is who or what determined that the rails on the Diamonds are not accurate and don't bank true. Maybe they are right and all the others are wrong? Why change if they got it right? How could a manufacturer that is out to build the best table be so wrong with something so important to the game?

Two wrongs don't make a right.
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Did the location of the diamonds (for banking alignment) move on the rails from the "red" to the "blue" Diamond with the new sub-rail angle?
 
mdavis said:
Did the location of the diamonds (for banking alignment) move on the rails from the "red" to the "blue" Diamond with the new sub-rail angle?
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No, the haven't been changed. By the way, I'm working my way to you, so I'll give you a call a few days before I'm going to be at your house:D
 
The diamonds definately never move... Matter of fact I will have to admit the blue label for the standard diamond system for 3 railers may be as close to dead on as I have seen in years. I can use pivot adjustments and move the ball up and down the rails a ball width at a time without haveing to change speed or amount of running english.

I think my previous post was right in surmising that the problems I saw the first night that I played on the one from Turning Stones were a function of the cloth not being completely worn in. The rails were very lively and the sizing was still on the cloth so the rails were pushing the ball back through the english that was on the cueball.
 
realkingcobra said:
No, the haven't been changed. By the way, I'm working my way to you, so I'll give you a call a few days before I'm going to be at your house:D
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You have my new 9' blue Pro-Am and are on your way?? I didn't think I'd ever hear those words :-) :-)
 
The Renfro said:
The diamonds definately never move... Matter of fact I will have to admit the blue label for the standard diamond system for 3 railers may be as close to dead on as I have seen in years. I can use pivot adjustments and move the ball up and down the rails a ball width at a time without haveing to change speed or amount of running english.

I think my previous post was right in surmising that the problems I saw the first night that I played on the one from Turning Stones were a function of the cloth not being completely worn in. The rails were very lively and the sizing was still on the cloth so the rails were pushing the ball back through the english that was on the cueball.
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Can you elaborate on what it means to still have the sizing on the cloth? I apologize if this is an ignorant question...

Thanks, -mark
 
ITguy said:
I bet you are excited. :thumbup:


Jim
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Yeah, that's an understatement. :-)

I waited 9-12 months for the rail angle change (started my interest in mid 2009)

Then put my deposit in September 2010 and have waited almost 4 months to take delivery from the one and only RKC.

Now it's 2011. :-)

It has been a very long process for me...and while I am in disbelief that I will ever receive this table :-)...I am very excited to have the waiting process end and to finally get a table in my home.

I wonder what kind of interest Diamond pays on deposits :-)

One thing is clear: if you want a 9' Diamond 1-piece slate Pro-Am, you might have to wait ~4 months to get it....especially if you are from the Northwest. I had not gathered that information here and did not realize that this was the case at the time of purchase.

In any case.

I still think RKC is the best table mechanic on the planet and the Diamond 9' Pro-Am 1-piece "blue" is the best table I know of (but isn't perfect and still has some issues)...considering all factors that I care about...So...while I was tempted several times to change to a Brunswick Gold Crown V (which was close to the same price when you consider delivery charges and discounts, was easy for me to get in 2 weeks time, and was supported by a dealer 2 miles form my house)...I waited..

...Now if Diamond could fix the dye problem in the pockets...I don't think it's going to be easy, given the research I have done on it.

-mark
 
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Just wanted to publicly thank Glen for his constant efforts on AZB to dispel rumors and to educate all of us on the intricate details of his work. Explaining so many areas of table installation and repair in such detail helps players and pool room owners alike in adjusting to table conditions or repairing tables with similar issues.

Thanks RKC Glen!


PS>>>You really do need your own section at this point Glen.
 
I thought the title was "Neil Diamond - Dissenting Opinion?" I mean, dissenting opinions on Neil "Forever in Blue Jeans" Diamond? Absurd.

Fred <~~~ IMO
 
realkingcobra said:
Because a pool table and the diamond system is based on simple math, geometry, with a touch of physics, and a whole lot of human error...when the pool table is designed to be perfect in its every demention....the players are not perfect and never will be...so there is the variable...the human factor...which is why some....are better than others...at playing pool...but ALL...are not GREAT!;)

Glen
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RKC I'm glad to hear that someone is trying to get a pool table to play to the 5 system. It's my favorite gripe of most pool tables and Brunswick should know better. In fact they haven't made a table to the 5 system since the 40's, 3C tables included. The Anniversary was the start of the downfall. I assume they don't know what it is or the specs they made tables at prior 50's.

That being said, I think its a risky move to lengthen the table a half diamond on a kick going 5 -3-2 then the corner pocket. I can't speak to banking since I don't play. The risk is changing from the standard such as it is. Brunswick unfortunately is the standard they play 1/2 diamond short.

The move is a game changer. I hope it sticks but bet it will be a difficult road.

Now as far as your new carom tables goes, I hope you consider at more that simply the 5 system. I hope you get a Pro or Ex-US Champion 3C player to advise. There's a bunch more to 3C than complying to the 5 system. The corner action and third rail action off the plus 2 and backups out of the corner, are 3 additional areas of concern for starters. There are many more. Don't do it on the cheap and with limited knowledge like Brunswick apparently is doing IMO.

I think I read Diamond Carom's are coming with 2" slate. You might rethink that too. Again Diamond may be defying the laws of physics that the Europeans have long ago figured out can't be done for World Class 3C Play. Can you say vibration. I will guess that it's just fine for carom play though since the ball is only rarely supposed to travel the length of the table.
 
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