New Diamonds - Dissenting Opinion?

hdgis1 said:
http://forums.azbilliards.com/showpost.php?p=2786053&postcount=160

First let me say this - I don't know the gentleman who posted this comment and am not trying to get the guy in trouble. However, in the midst of the thread about Archers comments on Diamond tables, this one mans view seems to have been overlooked. Perhaps Glen can clarify exactly what diamond did to change the rails?
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RKC talked abiout it already on AZB. Nose height of cushion changesd

Corrected- the angle of cushion changed
 
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Black-Balled said:
RKC talked abiout it already on AZB. Nose height of cushion changesd
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Not a Mechanic, but I talked with the factory and based on Glen's comment's, the nose height of the cushion has not changed! The change is in the way the cushion profile is oriented.
 
Hi Chris
I have one of the new Pro AMs here at my house. I assure you, what they did (Diamond) did help. Alot.

Jim
 
hdgis1 said:
From the sounds of things - based on one mans experience - it didn't help. Anyone else play on the new ones and notice a difference?

Chris
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I posted the same thing in the same thread, I asked if the new tables correct these issues! I didn't realize they were the new tables. I didn't see any difference, if anything, I got less check spin off the rails.
 
The change that took place was not in changing the nose height of the cushions, but rather lowering the back of the cushions to level out the nose of the cushions a little better. What that change does is it takes away some of the springiness of the cushions...as in how fast the balls seem to come off after contacting the cushions. Also, buy lowering the back of the cushions, yet keeping the nose height at the 1 29/64"ths level, this also allows for a more straight in, straight out of the object balls when banking them, or kicking with the cue ball. The changes I made to the Diamond rails, are the exact same changes I've made to all the Gold Crowns I've worked on, installing the same Artemis cushions, which in turn makes the rail flow more like on a billiards table...only with pockets. The change makes the cue ball position play more predictable, the speed off the cushions more predictable, and lowers the sensitivity of the cushions from kicking a ball off the rails as far out when a ball is just grazing the cushions on the way down the side rails heading to a corner pocket.

But, there's one more concern I have about how the Diamond's play, and it has nothing to do with the table construction what-so-ever;) it has to do with something else. Don't ask what that might be at this time as we're looking into it right now.

Glen
 
What I don't understand is who or what determined that the rails on the Diamonds are not accurate and don't bank true. Maybe they are right and all the others are wrong? Why change if they got it right? How could a manufacturer that is out to build the best table be so wrong with something so important to the game?

Two wrongs don't make a right.
 
realkingcobra said:
The change that took place was not in changing the nose height of the cushions, but rather lowering the back of the cushions to level out the nose of the cushions a little better. What that change does is it takes away some of the springiness of the cushions...as in how fast the balls seem to come off after contacting the cushions. Also, buy lowering the back of the cushions, yet keeping the nose height at the 1 29/64"ths level, this also allows for a more straight in, straight out of the object balls when banking them, or kicking with the cue ball. The changes I made to the Diamond rails, are the exact same changes I've made to all the Gold Crowns I've worked on, installing the same Artemis cushions, which in turn makes the rail flow more like on a billiards table...only with pockets. The change makes the cue ball position play more predictable, the speed off the cushions more predictable, and lowers the sensitivity of the cushions from kicking a ball off the rails as far out when a ball is just grazing the cushions on the way down the side rails heading to a corner pocket.

But, there's one more concern I have about how the Diamond's play, and it has nothing to do with the table construction what-so-ever;) it has to do with something else. Don't ask what that might be at this time as we're looking into it right now.

Glen
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so, is the blue logo the new tables?
 
TheBook said:
What I don't understand is who or what determined that the rails on the Diamonds are not accurate and don't bank true. Maybe they are right and all the others are wrong? Why change if they got it right? How could a manufacturer that is out to build the best table be so wrong with something so important to the game?

Two wrongs don't make a right.
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It's not a matter of right or wrong, it's only about improving on improvement...that's all, just to make things better...is that so "wrong"? If the diamond system works on a billiards table, therefore proving it's worth when banking...shouldn't that worth still be there on a pocket table as well?
 
Jason Robichaud said:
so, is the blue logo the new tables?
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Yes...and no...LOL Yes, the blue logo is on the newer Diamond's...BUT a lot of the red logo Diamond rails have already been modified as well...to play with the new spec's....but the logo can't be changed...so, they're NEW playing...older style rails...make sense?
 
pulldapin said:
Not a Mechanic, but I talked with the factory and based on Glen's comment's, the nose height of the cushion has not changed! The change is in the way the cushion profile is oriented.
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DAmn! my wife is right: I don't listen!

Still love them rotties too.
 
realkingcobra said:
It's not a matter of right or wrong, it's only about improving on improvement...that's all, just to make things better...is that so "wrong"? If the diamond system works on a billiards table, therefore proving it's worth when banking...shouldn't that worth still be there on a pocket table as well?
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Who, what, and when determined that a billiard table is right? This could be a never ending debate.

I am just suggesting that maybe Diamond has it right and all the others are wrong. It could be that everyone is so use to playing on the "wrong" way that tables have been made that the right way is wrong.

Just looking outside the box.
 
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TheBook said:
Who, what, and when determined that a billiard table is right? This could be a never ending debate.

I am just suggesting that maybe Diamond has it right and all the others are wrong. It could be that everyone is so use to playing on the "wrong" way that tables have been made that the right way is wrong.

Just looking outside the box.
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Because a pool table and the diamond system is based on simple math, geometry, with a touch of physics, and a whole lot of human error...when the pool table is designed to be perfect in its every demention....the players are not perfect and never will be...so there is the variable...the human factor...which is why some....are better than others...at playing pool...but ALL...are not GREAT!;)

Glen
 
realkingcobra said:
Yes...and no...LOL Yes, the blue logo is on the newer Diamond's...BUT a lot of the red logo Diamond rails have already been modified as well...to play with the new spec's....but the logo can't be changed...so, they're NEW playing...older style rails...make sense?
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Ok, how do i tell if i have a new playing table with the red logo? :)
 
realkingcobra said:
But, there's one more concern I have about how the Diamond's play, and it has nothing to do with the table construction what-so-ever;) it has to do with something else. Don't ask what that might be at this time as we're looking into it right now.

Glen
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Is it that some of the tables have a loose nut behind the cue? :rolleyes:
 
Hey Chris we have a blue label right across town at Breakers now. It came straight down from Turning Stones.. It definitely banks different than the old diamonds. I would have to say I am not a fan so far but I have only been on it for a few hours. I hit some standard banks and kicks and wasn't way off the mark.

The thing I didn't like the most was watching the cueball come off the rail ignoring english... Several shots the cueball came straight off the rail and you could see the spin on it.. That may have been the cloth still being new and sliding but I would think most of the sizing had been worn off the cloth at the tourney...

The big test as far as is this improvement or not will be DCC banks... The feedback from players in that event is what I'm waiting on...
 
The Renfro said:
Hey Chris we have a blue label right across town at Breakers now. It came straight down from Turning Stones.. It definitely banks different than the old diamonds. I would have to say I am not a fan so far but I have only been on it for a few hours. I hit some standard banks and kicks and wasn't way off the mark.

The thing I didn't like the most was watching the cueball come off the rail ignoring english... Several shots the cueball came straight off the rail and you could see the spin on it.. That may have been the cloth still being new and sliding but I would think most of the sizing had been worn off the cloth at the tourney...

The big test as far as is this improvement or not will be DCC banks... The feedback from players in that event is what I'm waiting on...
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Try putting a little left or right english on your cue ball if you want it to spin off the rails...to go along with the top or bottom you're already using:p I have NO problem getting the cue ball to spin off the cushions:grin:
 
Renfro - Right across town is about 1.5 miles for me!!!! Tried to get Joe over there tonight but he was going to look at a couple of cues. If I had known you were there, I would have come and tried it out with you.

And you're right...DCC is gonna be a real testing ground for the new tables!!!

Chris

The Renfro said:
Hey Chris we have a blue label right across town at Breakers now. It came straight down from Turning Stones.. It definitely banks different than the old diamonds. I would have to say I am not a fan so far but I have only been on it for a few hours. I hit some standard banks and kicks and wasn't way off the mark.

The thing I didn't like the most was watching the cueball come off the rail ignoring english... Several shots the cueball came straight off the rail and you could see the spin on it.. That may have been the cloth still being new and sliding but I would think most of the sizing had been worn off the cloth at the tourney...

The big test as far as is this improvement or not will be DCC banks... The feedback from players in that event is what I'm waiting on...
Click to expand...
 
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