New idea for milk dud. Leather conditioner.
- Thread starter Gravey39
- Start date
Eat some LSD and GO FOR IT.
that's my suggestion.
that's my suggestion.
Gravey39
Active member
But Joe rogan and Mike Tyson told me to try DMT instead.
boogieman
It don't mean a thing if it ain't got that ping.
Great post! A friend at work does buckskinner type rendezvous. He took a class half way across the country to learn the old process similar to what a mountain man would do, brain tanning, natural dyes and other historic methods. It was super interesting to hear him tell about what they all did.
I'd imagine with a bottle jack you could get them hard as a rock.
You can get duds break tip hard that hold chalk great, but it does take some experimenting. My current cue in rotation has a dud which most would consider ridiculously hard, but I can smash an 8 ball break with it or play the most fine finesse shot with it with barely any maintenance.
If you get a milk dud that's medium and want hard, you want to press it much harder. If you can get away with a 13mm tip, I find it's much easier to get a hard tip with them. You really gotta crank them down on a huge bench vise. If you use 14mm, to get it almost as hard you have to use a bench vise and a cheater bar. I'd prefer to use 14 as it makes it less critical to center on the ferrule since you can trim the excess. I usually end up using 13 because they seem to turn out better with less work.
I'd imagine with a bottle jack you could get them hard as a rock.
You can get duds break tip hard that hold chalk great, but it does take some experimenting. My current cue in rotation has a dud which most would consider ridiculously hard, but I can smash an 8 ball break with it or play the most fine finesse shot with it with barely any maintenance.
I did put it in a vice, and if needed, I do have a 20 ton press
. I'm willing to try most things once but just like CF shafts, I'd just prefer to keep using what I like and not change. I prefer a hard tip and currently have two Kamui mediums, a Kamikaze hard (black), and a couple of other random tips (one Triangle and not sure what the other is, came with the stick), installed on the cues I shoot with. I doubt I'll go back to Kamui because the Kamikaze's are pretty close and I'm not trying to be a world beater at this point and I'm not going to spend the money.
Gravey39
Active member
I also have two kamikazes on my two main playing cues. One soft and one medium. They’re really nice tips. I use to shoot with kamui soft or medium and changed to the kamikaze due to the price difference. I’d honestly recommend kamikaze to someone before I’d recommend kamui.I did put it in a vice, and if needed, I do have a 20 ton press
Dont forget what horse saddle makers used back in the day... Neatsfoot Oil.You're not "feeding" leather when putting oil on it and not every leather project has oil in it.
Quick run-down of the leather making process:
1) Cow dies and goes to the processing plant where the carcass is removed.
2) Carcass is sent to a tannery (leather processing company).
3) Carcass is chemically cleaned to remove all hair and other "stuff".
4) That is called raw-hide - duh, it's a raw hide. They may put some chemicals in at that stage to prevent decay, I don't work with raw-hide so don't remember.
5) From there it is processed in MANY different ways via vegetable tanning, chrome tanning, etc. At this stage they use tannins (where tanning comes from) to prevent degradation and at this point it officially becomes leather.
Vegetable tanning (veg-tan leather) uses vegetable oils and a myriad of other chemicals chrome tanning (chromium is used, as well as other stuff). Some people also say "oil tanned leather" but that's a misnomer, it's still veg-tan leather they just use a variety of different oils during the process, the leather is literally washed and then ran through a ringer to excess fluids out. If you have a soft leather in your hand and bend/twist/pull it and the colors change then this leather has more oil than others and is known as "pull-up" leather, as you pull it the color changes.
Chrome tanning is generally done in the fashion and furniture industries as the process is much shorter than veg-tan leather. Veg-tan leather comes in different varieties as well - died, natural, oiled, etc. From there, you start picking different parts of the hide for specific projects - top of the hide (near the spine) is good for belts (strength) and the best belt leather. English Bridle leather is considered the best for belts as it doesn't stretch that much - cheap belts use stitching to prevent stretch. Shoulders and other parts are good for bags as it is still pretty strong but more flexible. The bellies are used for small items such as purses, wallets, etc. because is soft and supple.
And what happens over time is those impregnated oils seep out, get washed out, or otherwise dry up and your nice, expensive, leather product dries up and cracks.
That is why you should always oil your leather if you plan on keeping it for years.
Different dying and finishing processes also change the way leather feels. Oil/alcohol based dyes will dry out the leather so after dying it's best to use some sort of finish to not only prevent color seepage to the user but also put oils back into the leather so it doesn't crack. If you have leather products that are old you would be better ahead if you used an oil designed for your product so it doesn't eventually dry and fall apart. Mink oil is/was the standard for a long time but it has it's limits. Water based leathers don't it out as much but the initial feel (at least to me) is it's more stiff than alcohol dye but if you flex it around it will loosen up.
I'm sure there are more knowledgeable guys here but, I got into leather about a year ago and have really began to enjoy it, so much I am considering selling my pool table so I can have an actual leather working room
My pool table is currently filled with 3 sides of leather - 1 still intact, mostly, and the other 2 have been cut up into manageable sizes and I'm working on a jig so I don't have to sit there and cut crap all day. My kitchen counter is currently covered in saran wrap with paper on top as I test out different dye types, colors, etc. as well different finishing technics for the look I'm going for.
EDIT: I forgot this was about tips
I looked at the process of making milk-duds a few years ago and I do remember some chatter about the chemical in milk but after trying a couple of milk-duds myself I determined they simply weren't for me. They were medium tips though and I prefer a hard tip but I didn't feel the need to research it any further.
I would highly recommend you do NOT put any type of leather oil on a tip, that stuff will leech out and if it doesn't turn the chalk into a paste it will at least transfer to the CB and any English you attempted would be null and void.
Leather dye might be a different situation, both alcohol and water based, but not sure I care enough to look into it
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That would be my guess as well.
I use exclusively milk duds (but not elkmaster, rather lePros) that I make myself. Some people use all kinds of fancy liquids, but I think milk is the best I've tried.
If you want an absolutely rock hard tip, you could try boiling it. I tried it, but didn't like it. It would be just a back up if I needed a jump/break tip and nothing else was available.
Anything you add to the tip (other than milk or water) tends to make it rot and fall apart, in my experience. Wax/fat makes chalk not stick AND makes the tip fall apart. Would not recommend.
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Love the smell of that stuff. Used it to break-in new baseball gloves.
I was trying to keep it short
I recently read an article that talked about Neatsfoot oil and they said use caution as manufacturers will use their own concoctions but as long as it has neatsfoot oil in it they can call it that. The same article mentioned Lexol but haven't tried it yet.
There is also neat-lac (mixture between neatsfoot oil and a lacquer of some sort, I didn't like the sample finish I saw so didn't bother.
Willowbrook Wolfy
Your wushu is weak!
What happened Gravey? Did it work?
Gravey39
Active member
Actually seems really good. Just got it out of the clamp earlier. It definitely hardened up a bit. I’ll put it on a cue tomorrow and go test it Sunday. When I got it out of the cream yesterday it swelled up and was extremely soft. After I clamped it and left it, the thing went back to normal size and is actually really firm now. I rubbed some chalk on the top and it held some chalk with scuffing it any.
The cream used in this experiment is Adams Polish Leather & Interior Dressing Matte Finish & Oderless
Some people are also surprised to know what Shell corodvan actually is - horse leather, for those didn't know
The reason for milk is Casin protein, It's been known in old glue products... Conditioner I don't believe would do much of anything for what people try to accomplish with " Milk " Duds. Better off buying pure Casin protein powder that work out guys use and mix with water. Probley with the right mixture and pressing pressure can get some good results. Been thinking of doing this for years, shared my idea and pretty sure some people have jumped on it and even sell them...
Gravey39
Active member
Well the stuff that I used actually worked!. In the last reply that I sent I put the name of the product that I used. I went and shot with the tip today. It didn’t fall apart. It shaped well, help chalk and didn’t misscue. Surprisingly it gripped the cue ball really well. Felt in between a medium to hard tip. I’ve never tried a milk dud before so I’m not sure how how close to one it is. But I will say the results turned out better then I thought. I thought with how soft it was prior to pressing that it’d fall apart. I’d say the test was a success.
Gravey39
Active member
Tip actually preformed well.
That is great to hear! Try some more and let us know if they stay constant and how the current one holds up in time. Also like experiments and new things! Looking forward to hear more.
Gravey39
Active member
Will do. I just ordered some more elk masters so I can do so. I shot around 10-15 games with this one. I just need to figure out a way to make a press for a vise that I can press multiple at a time. Maybe two pieces of aluminum about 1” thick and take a dremal to one piece and grind out a couple dime sized cups in it?
Will do. I just ordered some more elk masters so I can do so. I shot around 10-15 games with this one. I just need to figure out a way to make a press for a vise that I can press multiple at a time. Maybe two pieces of aluminum about 1” thick and take a dremal to one piece and grind out a couple dime sized cups in it?
Head to your local metal recycling place, they usually have a small crap yard where they sell stuff by the pound and it's MUCH cheaper than retail. I just picked up some aluminum bars for $0.35 per pound
Gravey39
Active member
So I get my new batch of tips on the 16th. I’ll make a few. Wanna try one?