New Pool Player Observations.

[CageyCraigey]

In my other thread someone asked why I took up Pool four months ago. Just to recap I have an incapacitating degenerative bone disease. In December it was really bad and I had to do something to get me out and competitive. I visited a local pool hall. Found what I was after! Now I play to an APA Level 4 and practice or play 2-3 times per week. I am driven to get better.

Here are some observations of a newbie Pool player. More stream of consciousness stuff but I would love to hear the thoughts and experiences of other players.

1. I love playing in the APA league but other teams exploit the time out rules and by by end of the league there seems to be a lot of disillusioned players.

2. I love playing. I don't care if it is against a better or worse player but to find people to regularly play matches against like races to X amount of frames without serious money on the table seems impossible to find. Lots of people want to play game after game but not make it into any kind of contest.

3. I badly want to learn how to play 9 Ball and 14.1 Pool and Carom Billiards but it seems impossible to find players who want to show a newbie the ropes despite playing at a very busy pool hall in a populated area.

4. Leagues seem to take up 4 week nights a week and tournaments all the tables during the day Saturday and Sunday surely limiting people's chances to learn the game.

5. Is it as tough as it seems.if you know so few people to find a group of two or three others who can meet say only one day per week and occupy a table for a few hours playing each other?

6. I like to dress for pool. For me wearing a dress shirt, a tie, a vest and a nice pair of slacks puts me in the mood to play. I am.very much in the minority there.

7. Equipment...of players who I see who are not using house cues they seem to fall into three categories. Players with simple looking equipment, all wood cues, for example, but obviously take care of them very well. Players with very high tech looking equipment that they seem to think helps their game. Players who will tell you every single detail about their cues, their history, their custom.refinements and so on and when they play poorly will literally blame almost anything except themselves.

8. How do I get a Fargo score, please?

9. Why is it if you do play a game with someone like Call Shot 8 Ball will they sometimes I reproduce a rule that inevitably favors them halfway through a game? Shouldn't everyone agree on basic rules first?

10. I do not understand why safety play is looked down upon. To me it is one of the most fun and challenging parts of the game to play well. Also because of my physical issues, I have found it really helpful to buy my own mechanical bridge with a choice of heads. Yet I have been told more than I've that is cheating or they are not allowed.

All that said, I love playing Pool and want to keep playing it for a long time..if anyone is in the Phoenix area and wants to play, please do let me know.

Cheers,

Craig.

 

[hang-the-9]

Some of the things you are asking about are from playing with non-players or "bar bangers". Both 9 and 10 are for that. They do not know any rules past what some guy showed them years ago and that guy was also clueless. To them, pool is just random smacking of balls around till something goes in. Getting an easy shot is luck, making a ball is half luck, any sort of attempt to use strategy or skill often ends up being made fun of or be "against the rules" that they make up or made up. If your opponents start talking out of their asses tossing our rules that are not in any real rule book, you know you are not dealing with a pool "player". Basically, anyone that plays by a rule where you have to call everything the ball and cueball touches during a shot is not a player but a banger. Another give-away is if they have no idea what a foul is or how to deal with one. Good to avoid those types if you are looking for any type of actual pool playing vs just holding a cue while getting drunk.

The other things seem mostly to do with your specific pool hall about table time or teachers. Look around in other areas near you, 30 min, 45 min away maybe. As you get to know more players there will certainly be more of a network of players to learn other games from. 9 ball and 14.1 are easy to find instruction for, plenty of it free on YouTube.

You may want to post where you play at, there could be members of the forums from that area, and several of us travel and visit places that can help you out with some more advanced knowledge if there is nothing local.

For a Fargo rating you need to play in events or leagues that use Fargo. USAPL and BCA leagues do. Many local tournaments have started to use Fargo. If none in your area do, talk to people about it, many are just not aware it's a thing, and those that are, are very likely also looking to find out what their rating may be there and would be open to doing tournaments or even a new league with that system.

 

[sparkle84]

Welcome to 2024. If you'd played back in the 60's or 70's you'd be a happier man.

 

[BasementDweller]

It sounds like you are enjoying the social aspect of the game. If you really want to get the most out of pool you have to embrace both the social side and the solitude found in practicing. Those that pick just one are missing out.

Enjoy the ride.

 

[Biloxi Boy]

Welcome to 2024. If you'd played back in the 60's or 70's you'd be a happier man.

Amen. The schools of pool which were once everywhere are going, going . . . And with them an entire species of pool players and their way of life. I really don't know what to tell you. Better ask someone who thinks tournament play is so much more than the old way.

In the old days, one would hang out, make acquaintances who eventually became friends, watch others play, play cheap sets, and learn to handicap.

 

[CageyCraigey]

Some of the things you are asking about are from playing with non-players or "bar bangers". Both 9 and 10 are for that. They do not know any rules past what some guy showed them years ago and that guy was also clueless. To them, pool is just random smacking of balls around till something goes in. Getting an easy shot is luck, making a ball is half luck, any sort of attempt to use strategy or skill often ends up being made fun of or be "against the rules" that they make up or made up. If your opponents start talking out of their asses tossing our rules that are not in any real rule book, you know you are not dealing with a pool "player". Basically, anyone that plays by a rule where you have to call everything the ball and cueball touches during a shot is not a player but a banger. Another give-away is if they have no idea what a foul is or how to deal with one. Good to avoid those types if you are looking for any type of actual pool playing vs just holding a cue while getting drunk.

The other things seem mostly to do with your specific pool hall about table time or teachers. Look around in other areas near you, 30 min, 45 min away maybe. As you get to know more players there will certainly be more of a network of players to learn other games from. 9 ball and 14.1 are easy to find instruction for, plenty of it free on YouTube.

You may want to post where you play at, there could be members of the forums from that area, and several of us travel and visit places that can help you out with some more advanced knowledge if there is nothing local.

For a Fargo rating you need to play in events or leagues that use Fargo. USAPL and BCA leagues do. Many local tournaments have started to use Fargo. If none in your area do, talk to people about it, many are just not aware it's a thing, and those that are, are very likely also looking to find out what their rating may be there and would be open to doing tournaments or even a new league with that system.

That is wonderful insight thank you! Your explanation of bangers is spot on in my limited experience and I have walked away from those people already quote a few times. I am from the UK. When I came to live I. He US, I joined a golf club set on a mountain side. All my golf in the UK was played at sea level courses. I sought out the better players, watched and played with them and started to learn the arsenal of shots I would need to know to compete on those style of courses. I try to take the same attitude to pool. I do not take myself seriously. I play regularly with two younger women not because I look like Robert Redford but they like to play with me because they say I am funny and fun to be around. But we take our games seriously, lol! Do you have any thought at to why this bar manager culture has developed and become so prevalent? Was it always this way in the United States?

I probably need to get out more. Do you have experience of working with teachers? I would definitely like to sit down with one (paying them for their time of course) over a drink and explain what I want to achieve and see how they can help me before we start. Is that something teachers are willing to do?

Thanks.

 

[CageyCraigey]

It sounds like you are enjoying the social aspect of the game. If you really want to get the most out of pool you have to embrace both the social side and the solitude found in practicing. Those that pick just one are missing out.

Enjoy the ride.

I agree and regularly I used to practice golf alone. I am a really reading on some practice routines and practice games right now. I know next week a goal is to start developing a draw shot and I have found a plan to do so that makes sense. Combine that with a little time experimenting with English (just a cue tip left or right of center for now) and some games, should be great fun!

 

[CageyCraigey]

Welcome to 2024. If you'd played back in the 60's or 70's you'd be a happier man.

How did people play back then, please? Was it better? Was pool a sport that was more welcoming back them to newer players who want to get good?

 

[CageyCraigey]

Amen. The schools of pool which were once everywhere are going, going . . . And with them an entire species of pool players and their way of life. I really don't know what to tell you. Better ask someone who thinks tournament play is so much more than the old way.

In the old days, one would hang out, make acquaintances who eventually became friends, watch others play, play cheap sets, and learn to handicap.

Why do you think that pool school that you described is going away, please? And can you explain more what you mean u "Better ask someone who thinks tournament play is so much more than the old way."

Thank you.

 

[iusedtoberich]

You've got to get out of the APA and play with the more serious players. Or, keep the APA for one night, then find the serious players the other nights.

The serious players all play 9 ball, and a subset of them will also play the other games such as 1 pocket, straight pool, bank pool, and 3 cushion billiards.

Find the local 9 ball weekly tournaments. Go to them every week. When there ask the players where the other local 9 ball tournaments are, and go to those as well. Ask if any local events are fargo rated. Make it a priority to go to those. The more you show up, you will eventually make friends and can find gambling games or practice games with the more serious players. Usually the gambling comes first, the friends later.

The other way to get a fargo rating is the Salotto app. You can play 1 on 1 if both players have that app, and the scores are reported to the fargorate system.

 

[book collector]

How did people play back then, please? Was it better? Was pool a sport that was more welcoming back them to newer players who want to get good?

In the 60s and 70s the only way to learn, was if someone who knew how to play, thought they could make money off you getting better. That's it, no videos, no books worth reading , nobody would even give you the correct time of day, Those better times is a myth .imo You were welcomed as a new player because you were a potential sucker, nothing else.
This is actually the best time to be in pool since the 1800s.
As someone suggested , you may need to travel a bit, to find the right place to play, but keep trying, and go at different times.
I believe with practice and a little ability , you can learn how to be a semi pro player just from the internet. The info is out there.
It might help if you make friends with a really good player so you can buy him lunch or a beer and ask questions , pool takes at least a couple of years to become decent at, so paying thousands of dollars for lessons, when you are just starting is not the best bang for your buck.
There are so many great players in the Phoenix area, I lived there for about 5 years and went to Kolbys almost every day.
It changed owners a couple of times and now I think the players go to main street, also Bullshooters and Metro are in other ends of town.
There are other people in your situation , maybe ask the house man if anyone there likes to play for fun . Maybe find a place that has a daily special, like from 10 am to 6 Pm for 10 dollars. I haven't been there for 10 years so it might not be available now , but you can ask the other players.
Don't be shy in the pool room or you will get overlooked all day, don't bother someone when they are shooting ,and be respectful of space , but most players don't mind a question or 2 .
I met a lot of nice people out there , I'm sure you will too.
I recommend Grady Matthews kicking videos and Bob Byrnes books Ray Martins 99 critical shots book, Joe Tuckers fractional aiming system and drills. Also watch you tube videos of specific instructions like caroms and banking. I also watched a lot of videos of great players , especially playing nine ball, Practice speed drills , cueball only , and cueball and object ball , learning how far each will travel ,learn the feel of how hard to hit the balls to travel distance x . That is one of the real secrets of the game.
If I were still there I would be happy to help you get started , so I know there are others out there. Good luck!

 

[garczar]

Want an old-school take?? Find someone better and gamble cheap. Enough that it hurts a little but nothing major. Also, just watch good players either live or on the zillions of hrs. of good pool on YT. Do drills, good ones out there by Appleton, Feijen and others. Last thing, ditch the outfit. Gotta be comfortable. Comfortable slacks/shorts and a good roomy golf shirt is all you need.

 

[Willowbrook Wolfy]

Even in late 90’s. It cost me at least $100 a night to “learn” something. That was mostly a reiteration of how to lose. And is a reinforcement that the only way to really get better is practice more.

I won’t play if not for something unless we are friends. You better be throwing up at least $10 or a drink or something. I’ll give you a fair spot too. I’m the type though that won’t keep taking your money. Maybe once or twice. If you really want to learn and show it I don’t mind playing every once in a while as long as the action isn’t around and you don’t bother me.pretty sure there are others that would do the same for you.

Back to paragraph 1. You on the other hand get to watch some better players play- Free of charge in APA. I’m not going to lie though. A lot of the highs are there for the singles not for team play. They don’t always put their best shot out there in league, but you can still learn from them. Back when I played more the only time you really saw the better players play was when somebody else good came in. Otherwise they didn’t show their best game, only what they needed to show to win.

From what I’ve noticed maybe focus on the slightly older (40+) crew around 5 handicap levels. Those players tend to be happy where they are at and just enjoy playing. It’s less a pissing match for them then say a 22 yr old SL 5. And usually that type will play free or pretty cheap. Plus you are close to their level which makes for better games. And a lot of the 3’s are just there for fun too. They might not be as competitive. But You can always learn as long as you are playing. The one thing about the 3’s though. If you are a safety machine they might not enjoy playing with you much.

 

[Willowbrook Wolfy]

Oh and sorry I’m writing so much. If you want to learn 14.1 or 1 pocket or 3 cushion you’re not going to find many who will play you unless you are already are semi-competent in said discipline. I don’t know about caroms. But Most playing 14.1 and one pocket are usually decent players at those games. Not many of the newer players even know how to play them. I wouldn’t try to play with most people who know the games unless they don’t know how to play either or you have practiced some first. Or if you are paying. It’s really going to be pointless for them to play you otherwise. I actually quit the last time I played 1 pocket with somebody because they had no clue how to play. It’s already a slow game.

To play 3-cushion. Probably learn the rules and as long as you are a solid banker with decent cb control maybe you could find a game. Same goes for all 3. A better player who didn’t know how to play 1 pocket or 14.1 could perform ok in all of those. But probably not very good without practicing them first. And wouldn’t be much of a game for a decent player in any of them.

 

[TrxR]

3 cushion is probably going to be the hardest as I'm thinking it going to be difficult even finding a table to play on.

I'm not one that dresses up to play pool as I hate to dress up, but if that's what you want to do I'm not going to say anything against it.

 

[bbb]

Good advice so far
See if there’s an instructor at your Pool Room or nearby and take some lessons
That will definitely help guide your improvement

 

[fastone371]

Even in late 90’s. It cost me at least $100 a night to “learn” something. That was mostly a reiteration of how to lose. And is a reinforcement that the only way to really get better is practice more.

I won’t play if not for something unless we are friends. You better be throwing up at least $10 or a drink or something. I’ll give you a fair spot too. I’m the type though that won’t keep taking your money. Maybe once or twice. If you really want to learn and show it I don’t mind playing every once in a while as long as the action isn’t around and you don’t bother me.pretty sure there are others that would do the same for you.

Back to paragraph 1. You on the other hand get to watch some better players play- Free of charge in APA. I’m not going to lie though. A lot of the highs are there for the singles not for team play. They don’t always put their best shot out there in league, but you can still learn from them. Back when I played more the only time you really saw the better players play was when somebody else good came in. Otherwise they didn’t show their best game, only what they needed to show to win.

From what I’ve noticed maybe focus on the slightly older (40+) crew around 5 handicap levels. Those players tend to be happy where they are at and just enjoy playing. It’s less a pissing match for them then say a 22 yr old SL 5. And usually that type will play free or pretty cheap. Plus you are close to their level which makes for better games. And a lot of the 3’s are just there for fun too. They might not be as competitive. But You can always learn as long as you are playing. The one thing about the 3’s though. If you are a safety machine they might not enjoy playing with you much.

What exactly were you learning for at least $100 dollars a night? I have played plenty of 700+ Fargo players but have not learned anything from them other than how to hold my chair to the floor. Someone is more likely to learn from watching the interweb and trying to put that into use on the table. Early in your pool playing career is a great time for coaching, you wont have picked up as many poor fundamentals at this stage yet that must be unlearned. I think if I had to learn pool all over again the first shot that I would learn to get good at is the stun shot, many lower end decent players don't even know what a stun shot is as I have found out shooting Scotch Doubles with many different partners. Its probably the easiest shot to figure out exactly where the cue ball will be headed after hitting the object ball.

 

[CageyCraigey]

You've got to get out of the APA and play with the more serious players. Or, keep the APA for one night, then find the serious players the other nights.

The serious players all play 9 ball, and a subset of them will also play the other games such as 1 pocket, straight pool, bank pool, and 3 cushion billiards.

Find the local 9 ball weekly tournaments. Go to them every week. When there ask the players where the other local 9 ball tournaments are, and go to those as well. Ask if any local events are fargo rated. Make it a priority to go to those. The more you show up, you will eventually make friends and can find gambling games or practice games with the more serious players. Usually the gambling comes first, the friends later.

The other way to get a fargo rating is the Salotto app. You can play 1 on 1 if both players have that app, and the scores are reported to the fargorate system.

Thank you for the advice. Why do all the serious players play 9 Ball as opposed to 8 ball?

 

[CageyCraigey]

In the 60s and 70s the only way to learn, was if someone who knew how to play, thought they could make money off you getting better. That's it, no videos, no books worth reading , nobody would even give you the correct time of day, Those better times is a myth .imo You were welcomed as a new player because you were a potential sucker, nothing else.
This is actually the best time to be in pool since the 1800s.
As someone suggested , you may need to travel a bit, to find the right place to play, but keep trying, and go at different times.
I believe with practice and a little ability , you can learn how to be a semi pro player just from the internet. The info is out there.
It might help if you make friends with a really good player so you can buy him lunch or a beer and ask questions , pool takes at least a couple of years to become decent at, so paying thousands of dollars for lessons, when you are just starting is not the best bang for your buck.
There are so many great players in the Phoenix area, I lived there for about 5 years and went to Kolbys almost every day.
It changed owners a couple of times and now I think the players go to main street, also Bullshooters and Metro are in other ends of town.
There are other people in your situation , maybe ask the house man if anyone there likes to play for fun . Maybe find a place that has a daily special, like from 10 am to 6 Pm for 10 dollars. I haven't been there for 10 years so it might not be available now , but you can ask the other players.
Don't be shy in the pool room or you will get overlooked all day, don't bother someone when they are shooting ,and be respectful of space , but most players don't mind a question or 2 .
I met a lot of nice people out there , I'm sure you will too.
I recommend Grady Matthews kicking videos and Bob Byrnes books Ray Martins 99 critical shots book, Joe Tuckers fractional aiming system and drills. Also watch you tube videos of specific instructions like caroms and banking. I also watched a lot of videos of great players , especially playing nine ball, Practice speed drills , cueball only , and cueball and object ball , learning how far each will travel ,learn the feel of how hard to hit the balls to travel distance x . That is one of the real secrets of the game.
If I were still there I would be happy to help you get started , so I know there are others out there. Good luck!

Thank you for words and encouragement. Main Street is five minutes from where I live!

 

[CageyCraigey]

Want an old-school take?? Find someone better and gamble cheap. Enough that it hurts a little but nothing major. Also, just watch good players either live or on the zillions of hrs. of good pool on YT. Do drills, good ones out there by Appleton, Feijen and others. Last thing, ditch the outfit. Gotta be comfortable. Comfortable slacks/shorts and a good roomy golf shirt is all you need.

Love your old school take! But I love my outfits as well. To me they are comfortable. They also have a practical purpose they hide my disfigurements.