New Table- How level is level?

tonemachine

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I apologize for the length of this...

I bought a brand-new table, my first, and I am unsure of how much to expect... the installers came back today after initial install a week or two ago to fix a rail thud and to re-level. It was very out of level in a couple of spots that they fixed (see back story) but I still have concern...

I have found this from BCA: "The playing surface must be capable, either by its own strength or a combination of its strength and that of the table base frame, of maintaining an overall flatness within ± .020” lengthwise and ± .010” across the width."

Excuse my denseness but do these measurements refer to the level of the playing plane or to the amount that the ball can deflect from a straight line? I would guess the latter because I would imagine that .2" hill would make the balls curve ridiculously.

After repair today, at moderate speed, the balls travel quite straight but at "die in the pocket" speed it is quite different. Across one diagonal on my table, the ball will move over about half of a ball width. Along one length rail and one width rail I still have some divergence from straight which I haven't measured because I am, frankly, a little p.o'd that it's not better than any pool hall table I've played on. Let's just say that I have never in a pool hall noticed such a lean as my table has- but, then again, I may have never looked so closely... but on one long rail I can actually graze the rail at very slow speed, have the ball deflect away from the rail but then come back to the rail. Is that less than tolerable in the pool world?


Back story:

I bought a brand new Olhausen Augusta and had it installed a couple of weeks ago. My first night I noticed a rail that went "thud" so then I started checking other stuff. The table was clearly not level enough (rolling across the WIDTH of the table at either end and at very slow speed, the ball would move over half a ball width (and in opposite directions on each end- the ball would gravitate toward the respective close rail.... so the installers came back out today and fixed the thud which was caused by a loose screw on the noisy rail....

Then they started working on the deflection by wooden shimming under the legs... nothing was changing and I asked them if it could be the slate or the slate foundation because, well, it was readily obvious to me that the leg-shimming wasn't doing it. They said "no" and kept trying. Then they realized it was the slate bed and took off some rail, took of that 1/3 of the cloth, broke the slate seam and used shims to fill a substantial gap between the slate and the board below. Then they put it all back together. The balls roll straight there now.

I am a pretty good pool player by any definition of pretty good.... I have tested and re-tested my table levelness with shots and I can reproduce the same crooked results over-and-over. This is my first table at home and I don't want my game getting messed up. In pool halls I've never thought twice about table levelness as I have never noticed balls go off-line like they do on mine. I hate being a pain in the butt to the dealer but pool is a game of precision and I spent a large chunk of money and I expect my table to be excellent. So I ask you pros, "what is excellent?"


Thank you very much in advance for your experienced reply!

Tony
 
Table

I apologize for the length of this...

I bought a brand-new table, my first, and I am unsure of how much to expect... the installers came back today after initial install a week or two ago to fix a rail thud and to re-level. It was very out of level in a couple of spots that they fixed (see back story) but I still have concern...

I have found this from BCA: "The playing surface must be capable, either by its own strength or a combination of its strength and that of the table base frame, of maintaining an overall flatness within ± .020” lengthwise and ± .010” across the width."

Excuse my denseness but do these measurements refer to the level of the playing plane or to the amount that the ball can deflect from a straight line? I would guess the latter because I would imagine that .2" hill would make the balls curve ridiculously.

After repair today, at moderate speed, the balls travel quite straight but at "die in the pocket" speed it is quite different. Across one diagonal on my table, the ball will move over about half of a ball width. Along one length rail and one width rail I still have some divergence from straight which I haven't measured because I am, frankly, a little p.o'd that it's not better than any pool hall table I've played on. Let's just say that I have never in a pool hall noticed such a lean as my table has- but, then again, I may have never looked so closely... but on one long rail I can actually graze the rail at very slow speed, have the ball deflect away from the rail but then come back to the rail. Is that less than tolerable in the pool world?


Back story:

I bought a brand new Olhausen Augusta and had it installed a couple of weeks ago. My first night I noticed a rail that went "thud" so then I started checking other stuff. The table was clearly not level enough (rolling across the WIDTH of the table at either end and at very slow speed, the ball would move over half a ball width (and in opposite directions on each end- the ball would gravitate toward the respective close rail.... so the installers came back out today and fixed the thud which was caused by a loose screw on the noisy rail....

Then they started working on the deflection by wooden shimming under the legs... nothing was changing and I asked them if it could be the slate or the slate foundation because, well, it was readily obvious to me that the leg-shimming wasn't doing it. They said "no" and kept trying. Then they realized it was the slate bed and took off some rail, took of that 1/3 of the cloth, broke the slate seam and used shims to fill a substantial gap between the slate and the board below. Then they put it all back together. The balls roll straight there now.

I am a pretty good pool player by any definition of pretty good.... I have tested and re-tested my table levelness with shots and I can reproduce the same crooked results over-and-over. This is my first table at home and I don't want my game getting messed up. In pool halls I've never thought twice about table levelness as I have never noticed balls go off-line like they do on mine. I hate being a pain in the butt to the dealer but pool is a game of precision and I spent a large chunk of money and I expect my table to be excellent. So I ask you pros, "what is excellent?"


Thank you very much in advance for your experienced reply!

Tony

The Company that sold me the table would get one more shot, at getting the table to play right. if they couldn't do it then come get your POS, and give me my money back. The biggest problem is they are installers and not mechanics. What ever issues your table has can be fixed by a qualified mechanic, they are several listed here that can give you references. I hope you get the results you are looking for. I put a little research together for you below.

The following is my personal opinion


When I was looking at buying a table a few years back I had a few options, I could have saved up and bought A Diamond Pro, or find a good deal on old Gold Crown and spend a little time and money on it. I never wanted an Olhausen due to their lack of durability, and rail and pocket problems.
http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=228999
https://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=327259&page=2

After some searching I found a good deal on a Gold Crown II, and set out to set it up to be the best playing table I could. Table was briefly set up in Texas and has been set up here in Okinawa for almost 2 years.
http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=260358
 
The Company that sold me the table would get one more shot, at getting the table to play right. if they couldn't do it then come get your POS, and give me my money back. The biggest problem is they are installers and not mechanics. What ever issues your table has can be fixed by a qualified mechanic, they are several listed here that can give you references. I hope you get the results you are looking for. I put a little research together for you below.

I agree that there is a definite difference between and "installer" and a good table mechanic but good lord, even a legitimate installer should be able to level a brand new table. That's one of the central tasks to perform when installing a new table. After all, we're not talking about missing parts or mismatched slates.
 
I agree that there is a definite difference between and "installer" and a good table mechanic but good lord, even a legitimate installer should be able to level a brand new table. That's one of the central tasks to perform when installing a new table. After all, we're not talking about missing parts or mismatched slates.

I would agree with you, except most installers don't have the correct training to perform such tasks as it goes beyond just setting the table up and getting out the door.
 
I would agree with you, except most installers don't have the correct training to perform such tasks as it goes beyond just setting the table up and getting out the door.

For shizzle, my Cobrizzle! And they also don't always have the tools. A friend of mine bought a new table and the 2 guys that came out had one carpenter's level between them. I guess my point was that if the dealer's own installer can't level a new table that falls on the dealer more than anyone and makes me question whether I'd even want to buy a table from the guy.
 
Here's another thing I faced with installers rather than mechanics...

When they came to take back the Olhausen, they started taking down my wall mounted cue stick rack and I told them "no, don't do that, I paid enough money to have this thing taken back that your boss can't complain about my keeping it and I don't want to have to shop for another one and/or re-level another one that isn't an exact match." I told them I'd put it back up, assuming that they'd blast right through the wall/anchors. "it's okay, we'll put it back up." Sure enough, they used their drill and blasted right through my anchors and even missed a couple anchors and screwed right into the drywall. Seriously.
 
Met a guy in a white van in a mall parking lot one week ago and gave him a cash down payment and haven't heard from him since. Haha. That is the truth... the good news is that its Jerimy Chambers and he told me in advance that it would be a couple weeks before the project gets started.
 
Gc ii

Glad to hear things a moving along, have heard nothing but good things about Jeremy and his work. Can't wait to see the finished project.
 
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Sorry to hear about your problem. Your first mistake was getting an Olhausen. I have yet to play on a great playing Olhausen. Also there is a big difference .020 and .2:wink:

So you ordered a GC2. You mean someone is getting you a used 30 or 40 year old table? From what I hear Jerimy should do a great job for you. Table should play great.
 
New table is in. Straight to 1/1000 of an inch. Tighter tolerance than the Super Aramith Pro-cup balls on it! This is a Jerimy Chambers job. All credit to him.
 
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