New table set up and it's playing long

tjlmbklr

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
The OP may have to recut the bevel angle because according to my calculations when he takes the same K-66 and merely turns it over and mounts it, there will be a reduction in nose cushion height of about 1/16 to 1/8" depending on the brand of K-66. I'm pretty sure there will be variances between manufacturers. I have an 1/8" slice of K-66 here, and if I trace out the pattern and then flip it over the tip changes height by nearly 1/8", so if the OP is at 1-7/16" now when he flips it over he might be way too low. Just a thought, maybe there is enough height on the bevel that he can raise it slightly, but from the pics it looks like the rubber is flush with the top of the subrail.
I was thinking this too. And if you saw my original thread trying to figure out what profile I had, K55 or K66 you'd know all the evidence showed I had K55 before. Championship wrote me back and said they indeed had a typo in early production. So if that's the case the Fleetwood on there before was K55. I had long threw the old pieces out when cleaning my shop so I had no way to make sure. So I brought a rail to a local retailer who let me hold the two up the rail and measure. K66 just seemed right. So now I need a small piece of K55 to check my profile again. No way in hell I'm driving back to that store that I brought my rail to to compare K55 to K66. Why didn't he say I was holding it the wrong way?

Here is that original thread.
https://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=516104

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fastone371

Certifiable
Silver Member
Are you freaking kidding me? I could not find any info on what was up what was down so I assume the logo went to the top.

Now what,. That's a several hundred dollars mistake!

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If no instructions are included I too would have assumed that the cushion gets installed label up. What is wrong with the people that design and make this stuff???
 

rexus31

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
What's the current rail height with the rails installed? Apologies if I missed it in a previous post.
 

trentfromtoledo

8onthebreaktoledo
Gold Member
Silver Member
We all make mistakes. I dont think I have ever seen a cushion with the logo on top.
Also note, the championship cushions do not have a canvas control strip on top,
99% of most cushions I deal in do have it/ the logo is on the underside. You will
never make this mistake again, be happy for that.

I wonder what went on the table originally. Just because it had Fleetwood k55,
does not mean they were original to the table.

I would still at least let it ride to see how it plays when the cloth breaks in.
Just my $0.02

TFT

If no instructions are included I too would have
assumed that the cushion gets installed label up. What is wrong with the people
that design and make this stuff???
 

tjlmbklr

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
If no instructions are included I too would have assumed that the cushion gets installed label up. What is wrong with the people that design and make this stuff???

I tend to agree with you, you know, since I made a huge ****ing mistake :frown:

Anyway, after contacting Championship and Ken at Classic Billiards they both said "label goes down" Why the hell didn't the guy that sold me the rubber when I was at his store tell me this and why isn't there any modicum of evidence of this on the web?

So now I not only have to buy new rubber but there is no way in hell I can reinstall that same cloth on the rails. Will a retailer sell just cloth for the rails?
 

Katipunan

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Rail Cloth

You might be able to get away with just replacing the cushions. I feel your pain. I purchased and installed a bad set of Superspeeds on my GC3 awhile back and did not have to replace the rail cloth when I switched it to Diamond black. It was very challenging but doable.
 

tjlmbklr

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
The OP may have to recut the bevel angle because according to my calculations when he takes the same K-66 and merely turns it over and mounts it, there will be a reduction in nose cushion height of about 1/16 to 1/8" depending on the brand of K-66. I'm pretty sure there will be variances between manufacturers. I have an 1/8" slice of K-66 here, and if I trace out the pattern and then flip it over the tip changes height by nearly 1/8", so if the OP is at 1-7/16" now when he flips it over he might be way too low. Just a thought, maybe there is enough height on the bevel that he can raise it slightly, but from the pics it looks like the rubber is flush with the top of the subrail.

After thinking aout it, I don't think flipping the rubber is an option. I have the pockets cut at a 12 degree down angle. If I flip it that angle is now going the wrong way. I'd have to stretch the rubber which even if that is possble that defeats the purpose of taking it apart and trying to make it play right.
 

tjlmbklr

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
You might be able to get away with just replacing the cushions. I feel your pain. I purchased and installed a bad set of Superspeeds on my GC3 awhile back and did not have to replace the rail cloth when I switched it to Diamond black. It was very challenging but doable.

Well I already butchered some of the work on the rail cloth. I accepted this because I am not a table mechanic or a professional by any means. So to try to remove all the cloth that has been trim and try to put it all back on, I smell disaster.
 

Katipunan

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Well I already butchered some of the work on the rail cloth. I accepted this because I am not a table mechanic or a professional by any means. So to try to remove all the cloth that has been trim and try to put it all back on, I smell disaster.

Don’t take the rail cloth off the featherstrips. Tape it over the back of the rail while you replace the cushions. Just a thought, I’m no pro either just a diy. If it doesn’t work, then purchase new rail cloth.

Shout out to the true mechanics here. It’s not easy work.
 

tjlmbklr

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Don’t take the rail cloth off the featherstrips. Tape it over the back of the rail while you replace the cushions. Just a thought, I’m no pro either just a diy. If it doesn’t work, then purchase new rail cloth.



Shout out to the true mechanics here. It’s not easy work.
Edit: sorry I read that wrong. It still would be hard to do pulling cloth back in place with little to grab since it's all been trimmed. But I'm willing to try it.


That would be cool if I could pull that off but how does one get the feather strip out with taking Staples out around it?

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Katipunan

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Edit: sorry I read that wrong. It still would be hard to do pulling cloth back in place with little to grab since it's all been trimmed. But I'm willing to try it.


That would be cool if I could pull that off but how does one get the feather strip out with taking Staples out around it?

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You remove all the staples underneath and behind the facing. Flip the cloth over, now you can replace the facings and cushions. When done, I used a pair of needle nose pliers to gently pull the cloth to staple it beside the pull to prevent stretch marks. I taped the cloth over the back of the rail so as not to get any glue on it. I figured worst case is to buy new rail cloth. But luckily it worked.
 

tjlmbklr

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
You remove all the staples underneath and behind the facing. Flip the cloth over, now you can replace the facings and cushions. When done, I used a pair of needle nose pliers to gently pull the cloth to staple it beside the pull to prevent stretch marks. I taped the cloth over the back of the rail so as not to get any glue on it. I figured worst case is to buy new rail cloth. But luckily it worked.
I'll definitely try this.

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rexus31

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Right on the money at 1-7/16"(ish).

Okay. What's the playing surface measurement cushion tip to cushion tip long rail and short rail?

If the nose height is right, who cares if they are installed upside down? I still think it's banking long because the cloth is new.
 

tjlmbklr

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Okay. What's the playing surface measurement cushion tip to cushion tip long rail and short rail?



If the nose height is right, who cares if they are installed upside down? I still think it's banking long because the cloth is new.
It's exactly 46x92 actually 91 - 7/8" but close enough.

As for banking kicking long, I tend to disagree.

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rexus31

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
It's exactly 46x92 actually 91 - 7/8" but close enough.

As for banking kicking long, I tend to disagree.

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I'd give it a month's worth of play before I started digging into it to "fix it" when it may not need fixing; maybe longer depending how much you play. FWIW, my Gold Crown banked long right after cushion replacement (Diamond Black, subrail calibrated) and new cloth. Three months later, it banks true. It's not only the bed cloth that need breaking in but more importantly the rail cloth. The rails won't take spin and respond as they should until the cloth is broken in.
 

tjlmbklr

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I'd give it a month's worth of play before I started digging into it to "fix it" when it may not need fixing; maybe longer depending how much you play. FWIW, my Gold Crown banked long right after cushion replacement (Diamond Black, subrail calibrated) and new cloth. Three months later, it banks true. It's not only the bed cloth that need breaking in but more importantly the rail cloth. The rails won't take spin and respond as they should until the cloth is broken in.
Well because of budget I'll be waiting anyway. Plus to try to explain to the wife why I have to spend more money and take it back apart will not be good.

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rexus31

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Well because of budget I'll be waiting anyway. Plus to try to explain to the wife why I have to spend more money and take it back apart will not be good.

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I don't think you'll have to take it apart.
 

tjlmbklr

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I don't think you'll have to take it apart.

For this reason, hopefully not but I was planning to fix two mistakes I made very soon anyway. I made a booboo on two rails that the more I pay on it the more it bugs me. So because I had extra from cut-offs when i put the bed cloth on I have just enough to fix them. But now I will wait because no way I am taking it apart two times. I'll see how it plays over time. But I still feel it's not going to never kick/bank right. I have played on a lot of tables of many types and I yet to see a 3-rail kick come so short that my aim spot is nearly the center pocket and the across table (corner to corner) kick goes long by nearly a diamond. That and I love banks, not the best at it but I learned banking at a young age before I learned straight potting balls and know it just doesn't feel right and I have made very few banks on it since I set it up.

Time will tell.
 
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