New tax laws may effect cue sellers.

CuesDirectly

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Nothing wrong about it, should have been done long ago.

If you do business under the table, this law is for you. Don't forget to add in all of your stolen items from last year, unless of course you returned the stolen items to their rightful owners. IF you failed to return it, you better report it or face jail time, the IRS cares about you.

Smile, it's happy Friday.
 

middleofnowhere

Registered
Nothing wrong about it, should have been done long ago.

If you do business under the table, this law is for you. Don't forget to add in all of your stolen items from last year, unless of course you returned the stolen items to their rightful owners. IF you failed to return it, you better report it or face jail time, the IRS cares about you.

Smile, it's happy Friday.
I think it probably takes in a lot of cue makers. Many operate out of their homes, have no business licenses, have no sales tax numbers and essentially do all of their business under the table.

I doubt very few of them ever report any of the money they make from their cue business and some of them may make tens of thousands of dollars.

A lot of times people doing things illegal just get used to it and delude themselves into thinking they're not doing anything wrong.

The worst part is they post on forums like this and probably have incriminating paper trails that if anybody decides to look they have almost no defense.

I should also add a little more food for thought. Operating an illegal business out of your home may very well void your homeowners insurance if something happened.

For example your house burns and it's shown to be as a result of the sawdust or finish materials whatever else it is you're doing there running an illegal business.

If you got thousands of dollars in cue sales and a paper trail proving it, this is not a hobby. I hate to see your $500,000 home burned down because your doing something like making cues in a spare bedroom and I'm not collect from my insurance.

It has actually happened in regards to a guy who was running an auto repair in his backyard this house burned and his insurance wouldn't pay he tried to fight it and lost.
 
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HNTFSH

Birds, Bass & Bottoms
Gold Member
Silver Member
I try to take the macro view on these things. Sure, some cue maker may make 10's of thousands building cues while some old dude scratching by on social security to stay alive (and insure he gets what's owed him every month...ya know, his own money) is gonna get a Zelle payment from some suburban millennial for clearing the poison ivy and leaves off a home lot.

I'd suggest the govt quit spending our money on stupid stuff. That would be a start! Let's police them before they police us. Who works for who? :rolleyes:
 

mikemosconi

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I remember in 2003 when I bought a high end custom cue directly from the maker at SBE, he would only take cash, for several reasons of course.

Look, so now if folks want to do higher end cue and case transactions via mail, and do not want to pay seller income or buyer sales taxes then we can go back to the 1960s/70s when you used P O mail orders and checks. The buyer waits for the financial instrument to clear before they are sent their merchandise. One may need multiple PO money orders as I believe that there is a dollar limit to a single MO. Balabushka used to mail his cues via Post office COD- (cash on delivery) - I don't even know if that service still exists today,

Problems now- without a credit card or Pay Pal one loses their buyer protections - I, personally will not do F&F anymore unless it truly is an F&F transaction. The sellers who want ME to absorb their SELLER fees can find another buyer.
 

mikemosconi

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
How about all the pool tournaments handing out cash every week- no one is taking a SS# to issue 1099s. This week I saw a Facebook sight where they POSTED the winners names- their photos holding the cash winnings from the tournament AND the Calcutta- WITH the dollar amounts clearly visible on the envelopes they were holding - first and Second were over $600 in prize and Calcutta money for each person.

Is that stupid or what? _ I guess they used those prize photos to promote the tournament online.
 

JC

Coos Cues
Gold Member
As a cue builder I decided early on to run it as a legit business. You simply cannot deal effectively in cash and money order in this day and age IMO. I have a separate checking account for Coos Cues to track all incoming and outgoing.

Writing off all the equipment needed to get going was a big benefit at first. If the day comes that I owe a bunch of taxes then that will be a very good day. Can't owe taxes unless you make money.
 

Chili Palmer

funking idiot
Silver Member
As a cue builder I decided early on to run it as a legit business. You simply cannot deal effectively in cash and money order in this day and age IMO. I have a separate checking account for Coos Cues to track all incoming and outgoing.

Writing off all the equipment needed to get going was a big benefit at first. If the day comes that I owe a bunch of taxes then that will be a very good day. Can't owe taxes unless you make money.

That's the general consensus of business owners, got to pay tax this year? Good, means I made money :)
 

middleofnowhere

Registered
As a cue builder I decided early on to run it as a legit business. You simply cannot deal effectively in cash and money order in this day and age IMO. I have a separate checking account for Coos Cues to track all incoming and outgoing.

Writing off all the equipment needed to get going was a big benefit at first. If the day comes that I owe a bunch of taxes then that will be a very good day. Can't owe taxes unless you make money.
You still have to pay a self-employment tax around 15%
 

buckshotshoey

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
How about all the pool tournaments handing out cash every week- no one is taking a SS# to issue 1099s. This week I saw a Facebook sight where they POSTED the winners names- their photos holding the cash winnings from the tournament AND the Calcutta- WITH the dollar amounts clearly visible on the envelopes they were holding - first and Second were over $600 in prize and Calcutta money for each person.

Is that stupid or what? _ I guess they used those prize photos to promote the tournament online.
If you have to claim your winnings, then why shouldn't you be able to claim your losses?
 

buckshotshoey

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
You can claim gambling losses but you have to itemize.
That's true. But most people will never be able to claim more then the standard deduction. So none of those losses will be claimed, but the one and only $600 or $1000 dollars you won at a tournament will raise your income.

I was pointing out how unfair it is. You should be able to deduct the losses from the winnings. If it is still a plus number, then it would get added to income.
 

cueaddicts

AzB Gold Member
Silver Member
Lot of cue flippers and side hustlers of all kinds gonna be surprised after this year.

Of course that’s how they’re gonna catch the billionaires who avoid paying enough corporate taxes. Douchebags.
 

dspaboss

New member
If you have to claim your winnings, then why shouldn't you be able to claim your losses?
because unless you can demonstrate that the preponderance of your income is directly due to your winnings, the IRS will declare your activity a "hobby activity". Further costs incurred in the production of those incomes are not deductible. Grady Matthews had this "discussion" over a period of years about his income and expenses.
 

mikemosconi

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
That's true. But most people will never be able to claim more then the standard deduction. So none of those losses will be claimed, but the one and only $600 or $1000 dollars you won at a tournament will raise your income.

I was pointing out how unfair it is. You should be able to deduct the losses from the winnings. If it is still a plus number, then it would get added to income.
The other option, and I am not a tax guy by occupation, but I do know a fair amount about the tax laws, is that if you play in enough tournaments to generate a positive income, but , yes it has to be considered more than a hobby by the IRS; I believe that you could set yourself up as a business, deduct all travel, equipment ( cues, cases, etc), entry fees, lodging, etc. to help offset much of your total tournament winnings.

A pro player should be able to deduct all of their expenses if they are reporting all of their income- I do not understand why someone like a Grady Mathews would have trouble doing this, during the times he held no other job except as a pool player, unless he had reported such small winnings that the income was deemed "hobby" income. Especially if he had a spouse with significant income that paid their living expenses and they were filing jointly.


However, for most amateurs, they just do not report any winnings , unless the IRS were to go that deep into the local amateur tournament circuits- not likely to happen, there are far bigger targets presently not reporting income.

My friend's landscaper was jailed for failure to report several hundred thousand in income, the guy cashed and sometimes deposited checks via friends and family at several different banks for a few years, but slipped up too many times in his sloppy " beat the IRS" scheme. The IRS also likes to pose as buyers of "cash" businesses, getting a peek at the "real" books and then dropping the tax hammer on the perspective seller.

There are so many underground economies right here in the U.S. based within several different ethnic origins - we all know certain groups of business ventures that are common among certain ethnic groups - without naming the groups or the business types. These groups not only generate huge cash sums untaxed, they also exist in an underground economy among their groups where rents, sales of commercial buildings, business supplies, commercial building repairs, etc. etc. are ALL done on a cash basis.
 
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