New tax laws may effect cue sellers.

Bob Jewett

AZB Osmium Member
Staff member
Gold Member
Silver Member
The other option, and I am not a tax guy by occupation, but I do know a fair amount about the tax laws, is that if you play in enough tournaments to generate a positive income, I believe that you could set yourself up as a business, deduct all travel, equipment ( cues, cases, etc), entry fees, lodging, etc. to help offset much of your total tournament winnings.
I've been reporting pool income for decades as a sole proprietor (Schedule C). The problem is that you have to show a profit in three of five years (or something like that) or they'll say it's just a hobby. Car mileage is one of the included costs. I got the advice of a tax accountant the first year I did the Schedule C.
... The IRS also likes to pose as buyers of "cash" businesses, getting a peek at the "real" books and then dropping the tax hammer on the perspective seller. ...
I've heard that some business keep three sets of books. The IRS books, the books for potential buyers, and the real books. o_O

I don't think winnings in tournaments are considered gambling and I think the related 1099 is going to be a 1099-MISC, but I'm neither a tax account nor a tax lawyer. If a tournament promoter fails to file 1099s, he is liable for the tax on the money paid. Foreign residents get a different form and usually the tournament must withhold tax for them.
 

mikemosconi

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I've been reporting pool income for decades as a sole proprietor (Schedule C). The problem is that you have to show a profit in three of five years (or something like that) or they'll say it's just a hobby. Car mileage is one of the included costs. I got the advice of a tax accountant the first year I did the Schedule C.

I've heard that some business keep three sets of books. The IRS books, the books for potential buyers, and the real books. o_O

I don't think winnings in tournaments are considered gambling and I think the related 1099 is going to be a 1099-MISC, but I'm neither a tax account nor a tax lawyer. If a tournament promoter fails to file 1099s, he is liable for the tax on the money paid. Foreign residents get a different form and usually the tournament must withhold tax for them.
Yes, true, the "real " books is the cash in their safe deposit boxes, hidden in their basements, inside a 500 lb. safe cemented to a wall, etc. etc.
 

SlateMan

Registered
I've been reporting pool income for decades as a sole proprietor (Schedule C). The problem is that you have to show a profit in three of five years (or something like that) or they'll say it's just a hobby. Car mileage is one of the included costs. I got the advice of a tax accountant the first year I did the Schedule C.

I've heard that some business keep three sets of books. The IRS books, the books for potential buyers, and the real books. o_O

I don't think winnings in tournaments are considered gambling and I think the related 1099 is going to be a 1099-MISC, but I'm neither a tax account nor a tax lawyer. If a tournament promoter fails to file 1099s, he is liable for the tax on the money paid. Foreign residents get a different form and usually the tournament must withhold tax for them.
All publicly traded companies keep two sets of books. This is not fraudulent behavior. There are different rules for taxable income and financial income under GAAP (Generally Acceptable Accounting Procedures). Thinks like depreciation make up for these differences. The IRS uses depreciation to stimulate the economy (see Section 179). Other big differences are things like employee stock options and revenue recognition. The IRS has a form to reconcile these two items (Form M-1).
 

SBC

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Nothing wrong about it, should have been done long ago.

If you do business under the table, this law is for you. Don't forget to add in all of your stolen items from last year, unless of course you returned the stolen items to their rightful owners. IF you failed to return it, you better report it or face jail time, the IRS cares about you.

Smile, it's happy Friday.
Funny the IRS will lock up burglars when cops won't
 

SBC

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Don’t forget that inflation is a “hidden” tax on everyone, even the lowest income earners. In fact, inflation hits the poorest wage earners the hardest. Someone making $25,000 a year pays the same for a gallon of gas that someone making $250,000 a year pays. Stop typing, we all know about supply and demand; gas is still higher than pre pandemic prices
Inflation helps the donor class....they own everything you buy.
 

JAM

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I've been reporting pool income for decades as a sole proprietor (Schedule C). The problem is that you have to show a profit in three of five years (or something like that) or they'll say it's just a hobby. Car mileage is one of the included costs. I got the advice of a tax accountant the first year I did the Schedule C.

I've heard that some business keep three sets of books. The IRS books, the books for potential buyers, and the real books. o_O

I don't think winnings in tournaments are considered gambling and I think the related 1099 is going to be a 1099-MISC, but I'm neither a tax account nor a tax lawyer. If a tournament promoter fails to file 1099s, he is liable for the tax on the money paid. Foreign residents get a different form and usually the tournament must withhold tax for them.
It's all about keeping records. Mike Zuglan sends out 1099s for tournament winnings, and at the players meeting, one must provide their Social Security info. If it is a foreign player, I'm not sure how he handles that. Some tournaments years ago would just take one-third out of the winnings if they were a foreign player and pay them two-thirds. Not sure what they do today.

If a pool player keeps good records, hotel and travel expense, entry fees, et cetera, it is easy to file taxes as a professional pool player. The problem is some don't keep good records. It's a PITA to do.
 

HNTFSH

Birds, Bass & Bottoms
Gold Member
Silver Member
The g'bment is finally focused on those selling Thom Pyro chalk.
 

mrshifty

Registered
If you have no income you are not in business. If you generate income you have to pay into SS. If you are self employed you pay it all. With a job your employer pays half.
Your employer doesn't pay 1/2. Your employer reduces your wages enough to pay 1/2. That's where the government tries to fool everyone into thinking they aren't paying as much. They are doing the same thing with Healthcare. "Make the employer pay it!" The only problem is, the money has to come from somewhere, and it comes from the pot that is available for wages. The sad part is, when somebody else is paying the bill, that is when people stop paying attention to the cost. Most people who have employer provided insurance have no clue what the premium costs. They only know what they will have to pay out of pocket. The money paid out for premiums is no longer available for wages. Maybe that amount should be listed on the W2 as income and the employee should pay tax on it. Maybe then they would realize the actual cost of the benefit.
 

middleofnowhere

Registered
Your employer doesn't pay 1/2. Your employer reduces your wages enough to pay 1/2. That's where the government tries to fool everyone into thinking they aren't paying as much. They are doing the same thing with Healthcare. "Make the employer pay it!" The only problem is, the money has to come from somewhere, and it comes from the pot that is available for wages. The sad part is, when somebody else is paying the bill, that is when people stop paying attention to the cost. Most people who have employer provided insurance have no clue what the premium costs. They only know what they will have to pay out of pocket. The money paid out for premiums is no longer available for wages. Maybe that amount should be listed on the W2 as income and the employee should pay tax on it. Maybe then they would realize the actual cost of the benefit.
That's almost the case with everything there's nothing for nothing. If you buy something online that says free shipping, it's already figured into the price.
 

Johnny Rosato

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I'm giving thought to selling my ivory jointed Rick Howard cue w/ 2 shafts.
Hmmm, I could sell the buyer 1 shaft for $575, couple days later the 2nd shaft for $575, couple more days the butt for $575.
I reckon that'll work.
 

JC

Coos Cues
Gold Member
I'm giving thought to selling my ivory jointed Rick Howard cue w/ 2 shafts.
Hmmm, I could sell the buyer 1 shaft for $575, couple days later the 2nd shaft for $575, couple more days the butt for $575.
I reckon that'll work.
I haven't seen the particulars but they will probably treat it like any other 1099 where they total the incoming for each unique payer at years end into one sum.

My answer to cue profit is buy more tooling! Even if the IRS doesn't believe it building cues will always be a hobby to me.
 

CocoboloCowboy

Cowboys are my heros.
Silver Member
The wealthy pay little Tax, they have Tax Lawyers & CPAs who know the lays and how to strict there affairs, so the do not pay, or pay small taxes.

Friend was tax Attorney, and CPA who was tell me he just landed big client. I said what is big? He replied 250k a year in fees.

I said why would he pay that money, he replied we cut his taxes from 5 million to 1.5 million.


Plus the fee was deductible as business expenses.

Guy had sheep ranch, trucking company, slaughter house, and chain of markets. Huge income.
 

buckshotshoey

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
The wealthy pay little Tax, they have Tax Lawyers & CPAs who know the lays and how to strict there affairs, so the do not pay, or pay small taxes.

Friend was tax Attorney, and CPA who was tell me he just landed big client. I said what is big? He replied 250k a year in fees.

I said why would he pay that money, he replied we cut his taxes from 5 million to 1.5 million.


Plus the fee was deductible as business expenses.

Guy had sheep ranch, trucking company, slaughter house, and chain of markets. Huge income.
So you are saying the guy paid his taxes.... taxes required by law? If the tax system wasnt so God Damn complicated to begin with, there would be no need to hire an expert to navigate through them.
 

CocoboloCowboy

Cowboys are my heros.
Silver Member
So you are saying the guy paid his taxes.... taxes required by law? If the tax system wasnt so God Damn complicated to begin with, there would be no need to hire an expert to navigate through them.

Well I agree the system is a pain in backside, I use to spend 40-50 bucks a year when I had small business to buy Mac n Tax Software.

Then it too mea couple of hours to do my taxes, to find out what I owed.

The only positive was did a couple of neighbor returns with the Mac n Tax.

Had I had to use CPA would have cost for or five hundred bucks.
 
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