New to 14.1 ...some thoughts and ideas...

One thing I've noticed that you guys might help me with is how 14.1 affects my 8-ball and vice versa.

Some of my easiest runs in 14.1 have come when I'm playing the layout as I would 8-ball. The minute I stop that and start thinking (or trying to think) about the processes I'm learning for getting to the key ball and break ball, I lose some control of the table, it seems. If I go back to my 8-ball mindset, I can shoot better, but not sure if I'm really working my way properly to the break ball setup, if that makes sense.

And with 8-ball, if I attempt the 14.1 thinking, I'm getting a little confused about the runout instead of just going through the suit as I've always done before. Is there something about these two types of thinking that can be controlled or eliminated or integrated or whatever?

Sense or nonsense?

Jeff Livingston
 
chefjeff said:
Thanks, Dennis.

I printed off that photo back then and gave it to Don. He loved it and started in on stories about IBC and how he seemed to always play well there and stories about those players, too.

I'd just love to come to Chi town next week but that is my wife's birthday and that means that I'm staying here, if I know what's good for me. :wink: Can I come some other time, even though I'm not a member of the club? I heard nothing but good about that place.

I'll tell Don hi from Jim Parker and you tell Danny hi from me.

Jeff Livingston

PS Are those videos available from Muellers, by chance?
Click to expand...

Jeff:

The invitation is open, but we need to do it at a time when something is going on there. Dana from Indy was here a few months ago and actually joined the club. Little Joe Villalpando came up a couple of times and put on a demonstration after a banquet. Frank "Sailor" Stellman came by about a month or so ago with a couple of buddies. Most recently Danny, Freddy the Beard, George Fels and Bobby Hunter graced our banquet with their presence and luckily for us, Bobby H decided to get in our league for the summer to show us how to do it right.

Usually our league plays on Thursdays but there is another 14.1 league on Tuesdays and also on Wednesdays so they overlap a little. Keep in touch and we'll work it out so you get a fair game and get to see some good play.

I think I have a dvd of Don McCoy playing at the IBC but it might be 8 ball.
I'll pm you on the other.

Dennis
 
Colin Colenso said:
Jeff,

You can't go past Blackjack's instructional series / commentary for learning 14.1 in my opinion.

Videos on his channel here: http://www.youtube.com/user/BlackjackDSapolis

Colin
Click to expand...

Thanks, Colin....YouTubes don't like my computer and most times stop midway, but I'll give it a try.

I've printed off some of David's 14.1 diagrams and writings here on AZ and am using those. He's good.

Jeff Livingston
 
A few days ago I finally got my DVD/tv working again and watched Danny Diliberto run 95 against Varner. The thing that struck me most was how often he seemed to screw up his shape but kept the inning going anyway. I screw up and soon the inning ends...hmmmmm. I must not be keeping a safety valve available or something. Any thoughts?

Jeff Livingston
 
chefjeff said:
A few days ago I finally got my DVD/tv working again and watched Danny Diliberto run 95 against Varner. The thing that struck me most was how often he seemed to screw up his shape but kept the inning going anyway. I screw up and soon the inning ends...hmmmmm. I must not be keeping a safety valve available or something. Any thoughts?

Jeff Livingston
Click to expand...

Most of the great players (like Danny D) have the ability to see things that mere mortal players do not see - be it a dead ball in the stack - a pattern that will develop a secondary break ball from nightmare cluster - anything.

When Elvicash was down here in Orlando last December, he was left with this:

CueTable Help



Dana didn't see the 2 ball, and when I pointed it out to him and showed him how it would go, he said that it wasn't a shot that he would shoot.

I asked him why not... and he sort of shrugged his shoulders... and I told him I would take it in a heartbeat. He offered the table to me and challenged me to shoot it.

So I did this....

CueTable Help



I proceeded to run like 40-50 or so - and I can guarantee that every single time that this particular shot develops in the stack (which is quite often), Dana will look at it differently.

I bring that story up, because that is how I learned most of what I know now. I learned by watching what other players did in similar situations and judging the effectiveness of their solution by the results I was getting. If it was practical, then I added it to my bag of tricks. It is was too difficult, it showed what I need to concentrate on during practice time.

There is an advantage to having the luxury of watching players such as Nick Varner and Danny Diliberto from the comfort of your living room chair. Back when I was learning I had to sit and have guys run 80-100 balls on me - that is how I learned. Watch your DVD's again and see how the great players deal with those situations where it looks hopeless, and learn to see and identify which particular shot opened up the table for them.

Watch how they are able to place the cue ball where they have more than one shot or pattern option - or which balls they shoot off - and which balls they leave on the table and WHY. This is where you will learn the inner workings of their 14.1 minds.
 
Blackjack said:
Most of the great players (like Danny D) have the ability to see things that mere mortal players do not see - be it a dead ball in the stack - a pattern that will develop a secondary break ball from nightmare cluster - anything.

When Elvicash was down here in Orlando last December, he was left with this:

Dana didn't see the 2 ball, and when I pointed it out to him and showed him how it would go, he said that it wasn't a shot that he would shoot.

I asked him why not... and he sort of shrugged his shoulders... and I told him I would take it in a heartbeat. He offered the table to me and challenged me to shoot it.

So I did this....


I proceeded to run like 40-50 or so - and I can guarantee that every single time that this particular shot develops in the stack (which is quite often), Dana will look at it differently.

I bring that story up, because that is how I learned most of what I know now. I learned by watching what other players did in similar situations and judging the effectiveness of their solution by the results I was getting. If it was practical, then I added it to my bag of tricks. It is was too difficult, it showed what I need to concentrate on during practice time.

There is an advantage to having the luxury of watching players such as Nick Varner and Danny Diliberto from the comfort of your living room chair. Back when I was learning I had to sit and have guys run 80-100 balls on me - that is how I learned. Watch your DVD's again and see how the great players deal with those situations where it looks hopeless, and learn to see and identify which particular shot opened up the table for them.

Watch how they are able to place the cue ball where they have more than one shot or pattern option - or which balls they shoot off - and which balls they leave on the table and WHY. This is where you will learn the inner workings of their 14.1 minds.
Click to expand...

It is absolutely great that you took the time to do those layouts.:thumbup: I saw that 2...but still when the shot is over, I'm not sure I'd have gained the advantage that you or Danny might have gained from taking it.

I don't think I've yet to "crack the code" of this game, if that makes sense. I'm pretty good at identifying those types of hidden shots in the rack...that's one of the reasons I've taken up this game: I think I have an advantage over others when it comes to finding weird shots hidden away. That's because I'm a "for-fun" player who takes shots that might not lead to a win but will be really, really fun trying. I've disciplined myself not to do that in competition but just when play-playing, I'm an experimenter so willing to give up an inning or game to learn something. That attitude has helped me discover some stuff that those who play only to win might not discover so quickly.

Danny explained how gaps in the certain balls and not in others can dramatically change the behavior of the cluster. That I kinda knew, but now I've been experimenting with them and it's fascinating how many shots, with the object ball in the middle of the pack, I've made that seemed unmakeable. But then there's the follow-up where I tend to lose control again.

Back to the table...thanks, BlackJack.

Jeff Livingston
 
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