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Sam at TAP

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
TAP has added on to it's family of leagues this year alone areas in Florida, Conn., North Carolina, Brooklyn, NY and Auburn, NY. Other areas are coming in very soon as well. If you are in these areas and are interested in trying TAP, please go to our web site at www.tapleague.com and click on the league locator to your state. TAP also plans on offering 10 ball and scotch doubles formats later this year to their members.
Anyone interested in bringing TAP to their area as a licensee can contact me at tappool@aol.com
 
If you don't like sandbagging in the APA, don't look to TAP for relief.
TAP is sanbagger heaven.
I know SL-7's in the APA that are only SL-4's in TAP.
What is wrong with this picture?
 
With TAP's Pool-Net and auto flag system, I highly doubt what you say is true but in my opinion, that leagues caps are inflated so TAP handicaps will usually be lower. It's a different handicapping system. It's apples and oranges. IMO, if what you say is true, then this guy learned to bag in that league and brought it over to TAP. If and when he gets to a higher level TAP event and has to play to his ability, he won't last 2 rounds because the auto flag will catch him. I know, I watched it in action several times and it works like a charm.....FYI....Most of the bagging problems I had in the past were players coming in from that league. I am also seeing more and more players just want a honest a fair match. All leagues that are capped have baggers. It's not just in pool either. Golf, bowling or anything else you want to try and cap. It's a shame but true. But I honestly believe it's less in TAP then any other capped billiard leagues.

TAP IS THE FASTEST GROWING LEAGUE.....PERIOD!....WE HAVE PROVEN THAT OVER THE PAST TWO YEARS AND THAT'S GOING BY WHAT THE "OTHER" LEAGUE POSTED ON THEIR NUMBERS IN INSIDE POOL AND ON THEIR OWN WEB SITE. THERE MUST BE A REASON TO THAT.
 
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Rich R. said:
If you don't like sandbagging in the APA, don't look to TAP for relief.
TAP is sanbagger heaven.
I know SL-7's in the APA that are only SL-4's in TAP.
What is wrong with this picture?
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Our TAP League appears to be pretty accurate with their handicapping, much more so than some other Leagues. However there will always be those who, for whatever reason, lose racks and matches on purpose and that is very difficult to stop. How do you determine when a League player is playing to lose or simply going through a bad game or bad spell?

It's happened to me recently, I have never lost 6 matches in a row in the 35 years since I first picked up a snooker cue! I didn't play to lose, I play every rack to win, I want to beat everyone I play and not let them win a rack. However through this spell I simply had some bad luck, some bad shots and people played well against me. I never missed a shot on an 8 ball, just sh*t happens sometimes. My handicap never changed, to be truthful I thought it might, but knew that I was still good enough to win off my regular H'Cap. The props here go to TAP and their H'Cap system, it was right.
 
most apa players think tap has a lot of sandbaggers because when players switch over to tap, their skill level goes down.

its not from sandbagging usually. it's due to the fact that the quality of play, and overall talent in tap is higher.

taps model actually leads to less sandbagging because they don't strive to break teams up to increase revenue the way apa does.

it also helps that tap has a 25 team rule instead of 23. in all my years playing apa, the number 1 reason i saw people sandbag was so they could keep their team together. with taps 25 rule, it's a lot easier to keep a team together.
 
Rich R. said:
If you don't like sandbagging in the APA, don't look to TAP for relief.
TAP is sanbagger heaven.
Click to expand...



Sandbagging is a part of many sports, sadly it will never go away until a good handicapping system is devised, like Golf HAS. Or everything become just OPEN PLAY.
 
Sam at TAP said:
TAP IS THE FASTEST GROWING LEAGUE.....PERIOD!....WE HAVE PROVEN THAT OVER THE PAST TWO YEARS AND THAT'S GOING BY WHAT THE "OTHER" LEAGUE POSTED ON THEIR NUMBERS IN INSIDE POOL AND ON THEIR OWN WEB SITE. THERE MUST BE A REASON TO THAT.
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Can you provide actual numbers to back that up. I believe the last time you claimed that TAP was the fastest growing league, you misquoted an article and then refused to provide facts to back it up. APA Operator then came on here and used facts to dispute your claim and then you disappeared for a while.

Do you have numbers, % ages, or some other information or is this just some more false advertising.


Leagueguy.
 
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If you have a handicap system in leagues or tournaments then sandbagging will happen or at the very least be suspected. It's just the nature of the beast that is handicapping and the distrust that players have for any handicap. Everyone that has participated in any handicapped event has either heard, seen or been involved in some sort of sandbagging.. I've probably done all three or at least been suspected of one or the other..
JMO!
 
I would like to hear some more about this "auto flag" system.

IMO - TAP (and every other pool league) is *DESIGNED* to reward the players/teams that can manage their rating the best.

How about opening up the player database so that EVERYONE can see EVERY match played by EVERY player in the league? I know you will never do this, because a guy like me who does data analysis for a living will quickly show you that the teams who cash the most $$ out of the systems probably play a full 2 balls better on average during tournaments than they do during normal play.

If any pool league was concerned with creating parity for the players, they would implement a system where tournament play had a HUGE impact on the players overall rating. In essence, this would tell teams that yea, you can sandbag through one session, but when you show your true speed during titleholders, masters or nationals, the gig will be up. Thus, you might get away with it once. In fact, I think the performance during any of those tournaments should have an impact equal to or greater than a normal 12-14 week session.

Since someone brought up poker, I will continue the analogy. Any major online poker site has a license to PRINT money. All they have to do is provide fair games, and the players will come. Well, that wasn't good enough for Ultimate bet, and the insiders cheated the players. People still play there, but their days are numbered, now that the info is really starting to flow.

When I see a team captain's rating drop from 5 to 3 in the 2 weeks prior to a session ending tournament (and thus getting that 3 rating locked in for titleholders as well), I get pretty suspicious about the relationship that player has with the league op. Especially when the captain of that team is perennially at nationals. Then I get pretty paranoid when I watch the guy running racks during the tournament as a 3. In this case, either the handicapping system sucks, or there is collusion - no 2 ways about it. What chance does a player who plays it straight have in this situation?

Also, what should a team who wins a session expect to get paid out in terms of percentage? For example the team that won our last session got < 480$ during a session that generated around $4900. Split 6 ways, this is just slightly breakeven on dues.

So, as a player, I want to ask why I should play in TAP? IF I win a session, I get my dues back and then get steamrolled by the teams that were able to "manage their ratings" the best going into the tournament.

Don't take this personally - this isn't really an attack on TAP, TAP is just the league I play in. Im sure the other leagues face the same challenges, but I am going to go where the league actually seems interested in providing the maximum parity for the players, and is willing to tell the world how they do that, and take a stand against these teams who just coast through a session, and pick up an easy trip to nationals (worth 5k, right), and a shot at some bigger money there.
 
Sam at TAP said:
With TAP's Pool-Net and auto flag system, I highly doubt what you say is true but in my opinion, that leagues caps are inflated so TAP handicaps will usually be lower. It's a different handicapping system. It's apples and oranges. IMO, if what you say is true, then this guy learned to bag in that league and brought it over to TAP. If and when he gets to a higher level TAP event and has to play to his ability, he won't last 2 rounds because the auto flag will catch him. I know, I watched it in action several times and it works like a charm.....FYI....Most of the bagging problems I had in the past were players coming in from that league. I am also seeing more and more players just want a honest a fair match. All leagues that are capped have baggers. It's not just in pool either. Golf, bowling or anything else you want to try and cap. It's a shame but true. But I honestly believe it's less in TAP then any other capped billiard leagues.

TAP IS THE FASTEST GROWING LEAGUE.....PERIOD!....WE HAVE PROVEN THAT OVER THE PAST TWO YEARS AND THAT'S GOING BY WHAT THE "OTHER" LEAGUE POSTED ON THEIR NUMBERS IN INSIDE POOL AND ON THEIR OWN WEB SITE. THERE MUST BE A REASON TO THAT.
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TAP is NOT the fastest growing league. NAPA is, www.napaleagues.com. You better go back and redo some comparison figures with the other leagues out there over the past 2 years.

As far as the previous poster stating APA 7's are playing as 4's in TAP he is 100% correct as it has happened when I played TAP 9ball to 5 people. The system does not account for the 9 being made out of turn.

Now I don't see nothing wrong with TAP personally or any of the other leagues for that matter. Each has it's own system and any league will be what the players make of it.
 
THIS WAS POSTED ON THE APA SITES LAST DECEMBER....IT WAS TAKEN DOWN A FEW DAYS AFTER, ONCE WE SAW IT....LESS THEN 1,000 MEMBERS!!...WOW!!...I AM IMPRESSED.

APA is excited to announce we’ve set a new record for membership in 2010! A special thank you to all our loyal members!! As of Nov. 29, there are more than 269,000 players playing in APA Leagues throughout the U.S., Canada and Japan in 2010!!! That surpasses last year’s all-time high of 268,774.

FYI....I did not come on here to get in the usual pissing match with you people. I came on here to let the players know where we are now coming too. TAP is doing our thing, we are growing and we sold Valley Forge out again and over a month in advance. As for the TAP players that did post, thank you for your support. This is from people that play in TAP and know what is going on and not speculating....Also, TAP added 20 new licensee in 2010 and approx. 7,000 to 9,000 new members. I do not have the exact figures but I feel safe in saying 7,000 to 9,000.
 
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Sam at TAP said:
With TAP's Pool-Net and auto flag system, I highly doubt what you say is true but in my opinion, that leagues caps are inflated so TAP handicaps will usually be lower. It's a different handicapping system. It's apples and oranges. IMO, if what you say is true, then this guy learned to bag in that league and brought it over to TAP. If and when he gets to a higher level TAP event and has to play to his ability, he won't last 2 rounds because the auto flag will catch him. I know, I watched it in action several times and it works like a charm.....FYI....Most of the bagging problems I had in the past were players coming in from that league. I am also seeing more and more players just want a honest a fair match. All leagues that are capped have baggers. It's not just in pool either. Golf, bowling or anything else you want to try and cap. It's a shame but true. But I honestly believe it's less in TAP then any other capped billiard leagues.

TAP IS THE FASTEST GROWING LEAGUE.....PERIOD!....WE HAVE PROVEN THAT OVER THE PAST TWO YEARS AND THAT'S GOING BY WHAT THE "OTHER" LEAGUE POSTED ON THEIR NUMBERS IN INSIDE POOL AND ON THEIR OWN WEB SITE. THERE MUST BE A REASON TO THAT.
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yea i gues you right about a skill level in tap would be lower in tap than apa. sarcasm dripping. i played a level 2 in tap that broke and run 7 balls 2 games in a row. what would that player be in apa? a 6 or 7 ? no sandbagging in tap huh ?

theres sandbagging in every league. its up to league operators to stop it. we got a new apa operator a few months ago. i think he is going to make a good one. he just raised a guy that been playing as a 3 for the last 2 years to a 5 when he started looking at the handicaps. probably going to be a few more raised before he is finished.
 
Sam at TAP said:
FYI....I did not come on here to get in the usual pissing match with you people.
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Here we go! People like me? TAP players who have concerns?

tCp90.gif
 
Sam...What are the numbers for TAP players advancing to the national tournament...200?...400?...more? (doubtful). APA Nationals have 10,000...BCAPL has 10,000. Now what were you saying about TAP? It's gonna replace these two leagues? LMAO Not even in 100 years...

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

Sam at TAP said:
THIS WAS POSTED ON THE APA SITES LAST DECEMBER....IT WAS TAKEN DOWN A FEW DAYS AFTER, ONCE WE SAW IT....LESS THEN 1,000 MEMBERS!!...WOW!!...I AM IMPRESSED.

APA is excited to announce we’ve set a new record for membership in 2010! A special thank you to all our loyal members!! As of Nov. 29, there are more than 269,000 players playing in APA Leagues throughout the U.S., Canada and Japan in 2010!!! That surpasses last year’s all-time high of 268,774.

FYI....I did not come on here to get in the usual pissing match with you people. I came on here to let the players know where we are now coming too. TAP is doing our thing, we are growing and we sold Valley Forge out again and over a month in advance. As for the TAP players that did post, thank you for your support. This is from people that play in TAP and know what is going on and not speculating....Also, TAP added 20 new licensee in 2010 and approx. 7,000 to 9,000 new members. I do not have the exact figures but I feel safe in saying 7,000 to 9,000.
Click to expand...
 
Scott Lee said:
Sam...What are the numbers for TAP players advancing to the national tournament...200?...400?...more? (doubtful). APA Nationals have 10,000...BCAPL has 10,000. Now what were you saying about TAP? It's gonna replace these two leagues? LMAO Not even in 100 years...

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
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They have been around 20 years now, if they was going to replace anything it would have already been done. Only thing Sam might want to replace now is all the Red under his name with Green as it looks like the AZ hit patrol tasered him. :D
 
Scott Lee said:
Sam...What are the numbers for TAP players advancing to the national tournament...200?...400?...more? (doubtful). APA Nationals have 10,000...BCAPL has 10,000. Now what were you saying about TAP? It's gonna replace these two leagues? LMAO Not even in 100 years...

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
Click to expand...

those numbers are a really good point scott.

however, i would like to point out that after over 10 years of apa, none of my teams ever made it to nationals. after 2 years of TAP, my team DID make it to nationals.

if you ask, most people who have played in both leagues, will tell you it's easier to make it to nationals in tap.
 
jdxprs said:
those numbers are a really good point scott.

however, i would like to point out that after over 10 years of apa, none of my teams ever made it to nationals. after 2 years of TAP, my team DID make it to nationals.

if you ask, most people who have played in both leagues, will tell you it's easier to make it to nationals in tap.
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That is easy enough to explain.
Fewer players means fewer teams and that means less competition and easier to get to the nationals.
 
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