An ivory joint is about 15-17gramm:wink:
Newest Ivory Laws
- Thread starter VernQ
- Start date
An ivory joint is about 15-17gramm:wink:
I wouldn't have to be drunk to say that.....my friend calls me Capt. Controversy..
A giraffe...how brave.
I probably would have said...
"You're lucky all the salads you eat everyday didn't attract unwanted attention from the deadly creature. Did you have to cleanse your body of the leafy smell before you went stalking?"
The ban effects more than just pool cues, it effects millions of items that people have legally bought and sold that may now be worthless unless sold illegally. One article pointed to a fellow that collected antique chess sets, had about 100 of them. This represents a huge investment that is now illegal to sell. If you believe the government has the right to do this than you are a part of the problem also. Believing the US ban will detour poaching makes little sense. The 6 tons that the US recently ground up.... that was 20 years accumulation that included items brought in by tourists, mostly from Asia, and with little proof that the item was illegal, and items donated by other countries to the US government as specimens of illegal ivory. Little was actually from confiscated sales of illegal ivory in the US whereas recovered caches of ivory in China are many times as much. The largest recent kill of elephants was actually done by those hired to protect them, not by poachers, as it takes money to save the elephants and the reserves have little of it.
Absolutely correct bob!!!! Hope all good?
What does "if they really need the money" mean? Tell you what, just send me $17,000.00 right now and I won't worry about the ivory ban. While you are at it send my friend $15,000.00 and he will not worry about it either. There is a collector on here that probably would like something closer to a half mil. Thanks.
did they actually grind up the ivory? i mean the government likes to take drugs off the street and put them back on it if you know what i mean.
lol, I understand your skepticism. http://www.nbcnews.com/news/other/u...send-message-poachers-traffickers-f2D11594098
I apologize, as I didn't look of it in that way. I was referring to someone who could throw 10k at a cue and not blink an eye.
Again...I apologize.
:rotflmao1:
https://www.federalregister.gov/art...ium=email&utm_source=federalregister.gov#h-13
Doesn't look like it's really going to affect the vast majority of cue owners anyhow, but it is a stupid and unenforceable rule.
Incidentally, you can still import a couple of sport hunted trophies each year. That makes the new rule all the more of a joke. I guess some politicians/rich folks still want tusks on their walls.
One commenter estimated that there are about seven people in the United States who purchase tusks (from individuals who imported them prior to 1989) and cut them into a variety of forms for U.S. craftsmen to finish. These craftsmen work the ivory pieces into finished products, including pool cues, knife handles, and piano keys. He estimated that there are about 15 individuals making pool cues with ivory ferrules and that there are a total of about 300 people in the United States creating finished products using ivory components.
Whoever the so called commentator was... doesn't know sh8t from shinola. The numbers are off by a huge factor. If you believe one word coming from the governments mouth you have a serious problem.
No apology needed to me. Regardless of whether someone can afford a cue at what ever price why should it now be worthless unless sold illegally? This effects millions of people. While not criminalizing you for having it in your possession it very effectively steals wealth.
The comment was make that cuemakers should have seen the handwriting on the wall and gotten rid of all their ivory... if they had done so that would mean that someone had bought if from them and now they would be in the same position. Either way, the ivory was purchased legally and now will be illegal to resell. Some one has been robbed and regardless of who it is or how much money they have it is still not right.
And none of this will stop the poaching. The governments actions in the ME have more to do with poaching than selling pre-ban ivory in the US yet their answer is to steal from its own citizens.
It is a long document (https://www.regulations.gov/document?D=FWS-HQ-IA-2013-0091-6350), but here are some excerpts I found pertinent to our industry.
Domestic and Foreign Commerce.The final rule prohibits certain commercial activities such as sale in interstate or foreign commerce of African elephant ivory and delivery, receipt, carrying, transport, or shipment of ivory in interstate or foreign commerce in the course of a commercial activity (except for qualifying ESA antiques and certain handcrafted or manufactured items containing de minimis amounts of ivory) without an ESA permit issued under 50 CFR 17.32.
***
This rule has an economic impact on U.S. craftsmen working with elephant ivory because it prohibits the interstate sale of items containing African elephant ivory manufactured after the effective date.
One commenter estimated that yearly sales of cue sticks containing ivory amount to $1.7 million per year. To the extent that these craftsmen are unable to utilize alternate materials (including, for example, mammoth ivory, cow bone, or deer antler) and that their business is conducted across State lines, they will be impacted by this rule.
***
(3)Interstate and foreign commerce of ivory.Except for antiques and certain manufactured or handcrafted items containing de minimis quantities of ivory, sale or offer for sale of ivory in interstate or foreign commerce and delivery, receipt, carrying, transport, or shipment of ivory in interstate or foreign commerce in the course of a commercial activity is prohibited. Except as provided in paragraphs (e)(5)(iii) and (e)(6) through (8) of this section, manufactured or handcrafted items containing de minimis quantities of ivory may be sold or offered for sale in interstate or foreign commerce and delivered, received, carried, transported, or shipped in interstate or foreign commerce in the course of a commercial activity without a threatened species permit issued under § 17.32, provided they meet all of the following criteria:
(i) If the item is located within the United States, the ivory was imported into the United States prior to January 18, 1990, or was imported into the United States under a Convention on International Trade in Endangered Species of Wild Fauna and Flora (CITES) pre-Convention certificate with no limitation on its commercial use;
(ii) If the item is located outside the United States, the ivory was removed from the wild prior to February 26, 1976;
(iii) The ivory is a fixed or integral component or components of a larger manufactured or handcrafted item and is not in its current form the primary source of the value of the item, that is, the ivory does not account for more than 50 percent of the value of the item;
(iv) The ivory is not raw;
(v) The manufactured or handcrafted item is not made wholly or primarily of ivory, that is, the ivory component or components do not account for more than 50 percent of the item by volume;
(vi) The total weight of the ivory component or components is less than 200 grams; and
(vii) The item was manufactured or handcrafted before July 6, 2016.
Pasted from https://www.regulations.gov/document?D=FWS-HQ-IA-2013-0091-6350
In summary, from what I can tell, here is how it affects cuemakers/collectors starting 7/6/16: (I wish Thomas Wayne was around to add some insight.)
Domestic and Foreign Commerce.The final rule prohibits certain commercial activities such as sale in interstate or foreign commerce of African elephant ivory and delivery, receipt, carrying, transport, or shipment of ivory in interstate or foreign commerce in the course of a commercial activity (except for qualifying ESA antiques and certain handcrafted or manufactured items containing de minimis amounts of ivory) without an ESA permit issued under 50 CFR 17.32.
***
This rule has an economic impact on U.S. craftsmen working with elephant ivory because it prohibits the interstate sale of items containing African elephant ivory manufactured after the effective date.
One commenter estimated that yearly sales of cue sticks containing ivory amount to $1.7 million per year. To the extent that these craftsmen are unable to utilize alternate materials (including, for example, mammoth ivory, cow bone, or deer antler) and that their business is conducted across State lines, they will be impacted by this rule.
***
(3)Interstate and foreign commerce of ivory.Except for antiques and certain manufactured or handcrafted items containing de minimis quantities of ivory, sale or offer for sale of ivory in interstate or foreign commerce and delivery, receipt, carrying, transport, or shipment of ivory in interstate or foreign commerce in the course of a commercial activity is prohibited. Except as provided in paragraphs (e)(5)(iii) and (e)(6) through (8) of this section, manufactured or handcrafted items containing de minimis quantities of ivory may be sold or offered for sale in interstate or foreign commerce and delivered, received, carried, transported, or shipped in interstate or foreign commerce in the course of a commercial activity without a threatened species permit issued under § 17.32, provided they meet all of the following criteria:
(i) If the item is located within the United States, the ivory was imported into the United States prior to January 18, 1990, or was imported into the United States under a Convention on International Trade in Endangered Species of Wild Fauna and Flora (CITES) pre-Convention certificate with no limitation on its commercial use;
(ii) If the item is located outside the United States, the ivory was removed from the wild prior to February 26, 1976;
(iii) The ivory is a fixed or integral component or components of a larger manufactured or handcrafted item and is not in its current form the primary source of the value of the item, that is, the ivory does not account for more than 50 percent of the value of the item;
(iv) The ivory is not raw;
(v) The manufactured or handcrafted item is not made wholly or primarily of ivory, that is, the ivory component or components do not account for more than 50 percent of the item by volume;
(vi) The total weight of the ivory component or components is less than 200 grams; and
(vii) The item was manufactured or handcrafted before July 6, 2016.
Pasted from https://www.regulations.gov/document?D=FWS-HQ-IA-2013-0091-6350
In summary, from what I can tell, here is how it affects cuemakers/collectors starting 7/6/16: (I wish Thomas Wayne was around to add some insight.)
- Cues built before 7/6/16 can be sold interstate as long as it meets the requirements above.
- There are no changes for the sale of anything within your state.
WA states new law says if the item contains more than 15% ivory you can not sell it... period.
(i).... try proving this. Since no documentation was available on much of the pre-ban ivory, and since once the ivory is cut into small pieces and installed in something else, one can not prove when/where the ivory came from easily if at all. It is the catch-22 written into the laws.
Only thing I want to know is if I can still have a cue maker in the mainland USA make me shafts with ivory ferrules and then ship them to Hawaii.
Nope......
Ban
Has anyone said or figured out just how many elephants this ban is suppose to save a year ? My opinion is zero. I was talking to a safari guide a couple months ago and he said you can still hunt elephants legally. They have to be up to a certain size and under a certain size. If you want to know the truth about all of this go to Sandra Brady's web sight to find out the truth on the ivory trade. She is the one trying to save elephants not the government or the animal rights nuts.
Has anyone said or figured out just how many elephants this ban is suppose to save a year ? My opinion is zero. I was talking to a safari guide a couple months ago and he said you can still hunt elephants legally. They have to be up to a certain size and under a certain size. If you want to know the truth about all of this go to Sandra Brady's web sight to find out the truth on the ivory trade. She is the one trying to save elephants not the government or the animal rights nuts.