next best thing to simonis?

C

CaptiveBred

C21H30O2
Silver Member
Recovering my table soon. Last time I was almost sold on a different brand based on price, reviews, and less burn marks. I can't remember the manufacturer though...


What would you recommend as a close second, or even better than, that simonis 860?



At $250 for a 9' I am ready to try a different brand. First time I bought 860 it was about $150. Last time it was about $180 and now joerackem has it for $250... Getting ridiculous, IMO. Time to try something else out...



What else would you use?

What else will play the same or so close only Efren could tell the difference?


Pros and cons?


Thanks
 
No cloth on Earth will fool Efren. Simonis has no equal. There are many other good cloths that play well. If you are looking for a cloth that plays like 860 I would stay with 860. I am with you on the price it continues to climb, but quality is hard to come by. Championship 30/30 is often compared to simonis. It is probably the closest second. It slides considerably more than simonis ESPECIALLY on inside english strokes. Many cloths try to mimic Simonis. HMMMMMM?
 
CaptiveBred said:
Recovering my table soon. Last time I was almost sold on a different brand based on price, reviews, and less burn marks. I can't remember the manufacturer though...


What would you recommend as a close second, or even better than, that simonis 860?



At $250 for a 9' I am ready to try a different brand. First time I bought 860 it was about $150. Last time it was about $180 and now joerackem has it for $250... Getting ridiculous, IMO. Time to try something else out...


What else would you use?

What else will play the same or so close only Efren could tell the difference?


Pros and cons?


Thanks
Click to expand...

$251.75 is the minimum advertised price of Simonis, that's not so say that's exactly wht it sells for. Call up either the BCAPL in Vegas, talk to Mark Estes, or Diamond and talk to Aaron....they'll sell you the 860HR tour blue .

Glen
 
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Just send everyone to Diamond and save all the crying.
Come to think of it maybe there should be a discount mechanic sticky too.
 
Dartman said:
Just send everyone to Diamond and save all the crying.
Come to think of it maybe there should be a discount mechanic sticky too.
Click to expand...

It's not Simonis that's out-pricing their cloth on the market, it's MOST of the distributors that sell Simonis. When a Simonis distributor offers me Simonis cloth for a 9ft at $348.00 per rip...but then says they have to order it in....but as a mechanic...I can get a $20.00 discount, but they have Championship on hand....there's something wrong with the distribution system Rick. I can list at least a dozen distributors that work that way...and I'm not happy about it. Ivan and I've talked about this problem, and it's going to get fixed one way or another believe me;) I call it bait and switch, because by out-pricing Simonis cloth, it makes it more inviting to buy a lesser grade of cloth...at a little cheaper price...which just happens to have a lower wholesale price to the distributor...therefore producing a wider margin of profit.....so the way I see it, is that most Simonis cloth distributors carry the name of Simonis cloth...as a so called distributor...but stock OTHER cloths on hand...ready to be shipped out at a moments notice...as just as good as Simonis...only cheaper....is the sales pitch. I know you don't do that Rick....but you're one....omungst the many, and Diamond ONLY sells one kind of cloth, so does the BCAPL.;)...Simonis.

Glen
 
realkingcobra said:
It's not Simonis that's out-pricing their cloth on the market, it's MOST of the distributors that sell Simonis. ...
Glen
Click to expand...

I'm not referring to distributors. Anyone in the business should pass on that kind of pricing.
If one wants Simonis then why settle for something else when there are plenty of retailers that can fill the order.
 
Dartman said:
I'm not referring to distributors. Anyone in the business should pass on that kind of pricing.
If one wants Simonis then why settle for something else when there are plenty of retailers that can fill the order.
Click to expand...

Your 100 percent right :thumbup:

Mark Gregory
 
Bcapl

realkingcobra said:
$251.75 is the minimum advertised price of Simonis, that's not so say that's exactly wht it sells for. Call up either the BCAPL in Vegas, talk to Mark Estes, or Diamond and talk to Aaron....they'll sell you the 860HR tour blue .

Glen
Click to expand...

What is the BCAPL? Can't find a phone # on it.
 
sdbilliards said:
championship tour edition 30/30 is second best. its not that much cheaper though.
Click to expand...

You should really qualify a statement like that by adding "in my opinion"
considering there are other cloths comparable to 860 and 3030 isn't one of them.
 
Dartman said:
You should really qualify a statement like that by adding "in my opinion"
considering there are other cloths comparable to 860 and 3030 isn't one of them.
Click to expand...

I am curious. What other cloths compare to Simonis as far as playability.I am not challenging your statement in any way? I have played all over the northeast and most pool rooms use Simonis and 30/30 seems to be the alternative. I have never played on Velocity or Milikin [Spelling?] I've played the Joss tours and they require Simonis and 99% of the action rooms in the tri-state area are same. Do you see a different demographic in your area? Again I am only curious, I couldn't speak for anything beyond my own experience.
 
Dartman said:
You should really qualify a statement like that by adding "in my opinion"
considering there are other cloths comparable to 860 and 3030 isn't one of them.
Click to expand...

Rick, my statement was to the poster. If he doesn't like what I think he doesn't have to listen. and NO I don't think I need to add "in my opinion."
 
The Turk said:
I am curious. What other cloths compare to Simonis as far as playability.I am not challenging your statement in any way? I have played all over the northeast and most pool rooms use Simonis and 30/30 seems to be the alternative. I have never played on Velocity or Milikin [Spelling?] I've played the Joss tours and they require Simonis and 99% of the action rooms in the tri-state area are same. Do you see a different demographic in your area? Again I am only curious, I couldn't speak for anything beyond my own experience.
Click to expand...

Milliken super pro, Granito, Championship, Mali/Stevens...all produce a worsted wool cloth, there are some similarities in the way they play, and also great differences, but overall....any of these brands are going to play better than a woven wool cloth....but only to the players that can appreciate that kind of play....as most people in this country know only of the woven wool cloths installed on most pool tables.

China also produces a wide variety of worsted wool cloths for pool tables as well, just not marketed very well in the USA.

Glen
 
IMO, Olhausen's Accu-Guard is as good or at least second best to Simonis. I use it on my tables and all my players love it. Plays great, burns less and lasts longer, IMO.
 
cloth

Simonis is my pick, velocity plays good too..velocity wears a little faster..I am installing some arimith tournament cloth soon and am curious how it plays...
30/30 would be my last pick...
-
Robert Molina
 
The Turk said:
I am curious. What other cloths compare to Simonis as far as playability.I am not challenging your statement in any way? I have played all over the northeast and most pool rooms use Simonis and 30/30 seems to be the alternative. I have never played on Velocity or Milikin [Spelling?] I've played the Joss tours and they require Simonis and 99% of the action rooms in the tri-state area are same. Do you see a different demographic in your area? Again I am only curious, I couldn't speak for anything beyond my own experience.
Click to expand...

First of all people need to quit comparing 3030 with Simonis unless they specifically make it a comparison to Simonis 760.
This a one of the reasons there's a current lawsuit between these 2 manufacturers.

To compare "playability" is to compare speed and precision. While it's probably safe to say all worsted cloths compare somewhat equally on precision this is not the case with speed and this is where the comparison becomes important. When you say "most pool rooms use Simonis" then here's the question - is it 860? 760? 860HR? If 760 then 3030 is a comparable alternative in terms of playability.

Glenn mentioned some of the other worsted products available and some compare to 860 and some compare to 760.
There are other worsteds (Forstmann Tournament, Mali Vestra, Hainsworth Elite Pro) that can also be compared the same way.
Problem is most "other brands" are not widely known because the default cloth in this country is either 860, 760 or 3030.
It's a hard nut to crack and I think John Barton can attest to that since Sterling is doing all they can to get some recognition for
their Milliken cloth.

It's good you ended your post by saying you can't speak beyond your own experience since there are other cloths you haven't
played on or are even aware of. So unless someone is an expert on all cloth brands then anything they say should be qualified
as an opinion and not a fact.
 
tableman said:
IMO, Olhausen's Accu-Guard is as good or at least second best to Simonis. I use it on my tables and all my players love it. Plays great, burns less and lasts longer, IMO.
Click to expand...

Nothing personal but here again is a comparison to "Simonis" without specifying 860 or 760.

For those that don't know, AccuGuard is Teflon-treated Hainsworth Elite Pro made and branded for Olhausen. At 70/30 it's comparable to 760. This is the same scenario as Bwick Centennial which is 3030 treated with Teflon and branded by Championship for Bwick.
 
Since the thread is titled "next best thing to Simonis" ...my vote is on Milliken SuperPro. I think it is the best alternative to Simonis. It's quality, plays great. Lasts long (rooms here go long before changing cloth). Only thing is, it's little on the fast side.

However, 860HR is the perfect cloth in my opinion. Has the perfect speed (Milliken is faster than 860HR but slower than 760 in my opinion). Doesn't feel too rough (some cloths feel almost like canvas), but isn't too slippery either. Just the right amount of grip. Lasts long. Consistent. Love that tournament blue color.

Dartman is right 100% about speed. Speed is the major difference between the cloths, in terms of playability. I think they're all pretty precise.

That's why I think 860HR is perfect. All games are playable on it without any problem. Milliken is a really good cloth, but it's right on the borderline, perhaps too fast for my tastes for 9-ball. CB really rolls too far. Every ther game is fine though. My local room has had other cheaper Simonis alternatives installed in the past 15 years. All were noticeably inferior to Simonis in playability and durability. Especially durability. They would turn to garbage in no time. They were crap. Milliken is not. It's a good cloth. I don't know if Milliken will become more popular, but it's a contender in my opinion if people are ok with the slightly faster play.

A couple of rooms down here use Milliken now that I know of (installed by Wes).

I wouldn't be suspicious of MSP or consider it hype because of the way JB has talked about it and promoted or because he sells it. It's a good cloth regardless.


That's my uneducated non-tablemechanic $0.02
 
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