Nickel vs Dime Radius Long Shot Accuracy -Center CB

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fmcjfc

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After using a nickel tip radius for as long as I can remember, today I practiced with a similar cue with a dime radius and it seemed to reduce my accuracy on long center CB shots. So I conducted an experiment with 100 cross corner, full length, dead straight shots with each cue. I pocketed about 80% with the nickel radius and only about half with the dime radius. Is this just small sample size, or does the dime radius somehow reduce accuracy on longer center hit shots?
An internet search produced a wide range of opinions on the subject, mostly several years old. Has this question been answered with certainty since then?
 
It brings out your true stroke.. Which for you unfortunately sounds like is a bit off at times. You will be able to get more english out of a Dime, but your accuracy and stroke has to be more precise.
 
fmcjfc said:
After using a nickel tip radius for as long as I can remember, today I practiced with a similar cue with a dime radius and it seemed to reduce my accuracy on long center CB shots. So I conducted an experiment with 100 cross corner, full length, dead straight shots with each cue. I pocketed about 80% with the nickel radius and only about half with the dime radius. Is this just small sample size, or does the dime radius somehow reduce accuracy on longer center hit shots?
An internet search produced a wide range of opinions on the subject, mostly several years old. Has this question been answered with certainty since then?
Click to expand...

Your experiment is flawed. You came up with a hypothesis and tested using a biased test group. The hypothesis likely affected the outcome.

That said, it is a simple geometrical exercise to prove that slight movements off of center will have a greater effect with a smaller radius tip. In other words, if the axis of the stick is X mm off center, the contact point of the tip will be further off center of the ball with a dime radius than with a nickel radius.

The question is...is it enough different to make a difference in accuracy? I contend it is only if you let it.
 
The dime radius doesn't reduce accuracy, it's your stroke that reduces the accuracy.

The nickle radius is just more lenient and your stroke flaws don't show up as much.

The dime radius gives you more english when you hit off the center of the cue ball,
as the poster above said in post #2. This shows up more on a long straight shot.

If you practice long straight in shots with a dime radius tip and get as proficient as
you are in making them with a nickle radius tip, you'll end up with a straighter stroke.
 
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Maybe it's just because you are used to your cue with the nickel radius and not used to the one with the dime radius? Tip radius should have nothing to do with it. The same amount of tip hits the cue ball with both shapes.......go test this one.
 
If the center of both cues are aimed at the center of the cue ball, then the centers of both radius tips are hitting the center of the cue ball.

If the centers of each cue are aimed a 1/4 inch to the right of center. Then the nickle (or less rounded) radius tip, will contact the cue ball before the dime (or more rounded) radius tip contacts the cue ball.
(just as in when a player jacks up a little to get a more severe cut on an object ball, when the cue ball and object ball are very close to each other.
You jack up to slightly (the pinoy's all do this) to lift the cue ball off the cloth so as the equator of the cue ball is above the equator of the object ball thus making contact later and farther to the left or right depending on which way you are cutting the object ball (just as the dime or more rounded radius does when shooting) by making contact later and achieving more cut.)

There for the dime radius tip (the last of the two radii to make contact) will be contacting the cue ball further to the right of center even though the centers of both cues and cue tips are both aimed 1/4 inch to the right of center. So even though the same amount of tip may be making contact, it's not in the same place on the cue ball.

There by magnifying small differences in ones stroke., when not on center.
 
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I have cues with both nickel and dime and I see no difference in pocketing balls. I don't even think a dime shape gives any more spin...but maybe it does a very little bit. With the new type tips of today it don't matter, you use either dime or nickel and any banger can spin the CB. Johnnyt
 
Johnnyt said:
I have cues with both nickel and dime and I see no difference in pocketing balls. I don't even think a dime shape gives any more spin...but maybe it does a very little bit. With the new type tips of today it don't matter, you use either dime or nickel and any banger can spin the CB. Johnnyt
Click to expand...

You don't see a difference because you have a straight stroke, the original poster
had a problem with the dime radius because he doesn't, lucky you! :grin:
 
I fixed one of my tip shapers up to a quarter size (used a rounded cutting 1/4" drill stone- Northerntools etc) and replace the sand paper inserts. Now off center CB spin including shoot off of the rail or applying low spin draw is much easier to apply without miscues.

A Flatter tip surface during 'shaft deflection' (with above medium speed spin power stroke) causes more tip to CB 'moment of contact' (grip time) hence less miscue effect- more accurate squirt/swerve control effect. All things being the same on the tip surface ie texture, amount of caulk at the contact point, shaft angle during shot delivery, mass-energy etc - a smaller radius tip will have less 'moment of contact' time (grip) the further off CCB the tip is applied... until you get the 'miscue sensation' during shaft deflection. Think of a new 'jump cue's' tip shape (not its shaft thickness or flexibility or tip hardness)verses that of regular sized marble when directed at the CB cuetip contact point. The Math (physics) don't change the facts. Even Earl (Mr Spinner) and Keith McC.. has made such related comments about 'liking a flatter tip'. It really does works pretty well when adding spin (or avoiding a miscue and human error). CCB cueing the tips conical shape is less noticeable ,obviously. Imo, the tip type/Chaulk quality obviously also helps also but the 'tip shape' can also have a major effect miscue statistics. Just sayin..:smile:

Randy
 
itsfroze said:
You don't see a difference because you have a straight stroke, the original poster
had a problem with the dime radius because he doesn't, lucky you! :grin:
Click to expand...

Yes I do have a pretty good straight stroke most of the shots, but don't forget I only play on bar boxes now and they are a bit more forgiving. :grin:. Johnnyt
 
itsfroze said:
The dime radius doesn't reduce accuracy, it's your stroke that reduces the accuracy.

The nickle radius is just more lenient and your stroke flaws don't show up as much.

The dime radius gives you more english when you hit off the center of the cue ball,
as the poster above said in post #2. This shows up more on a long straight shot.

If you practice long straight in shots with a dime radius tip and get as proficient as
you are in making them with a nickle radius tip, you'll end up with a straighter stroke.
Click to expand...

Absolutely right. It's the same concept of accuracy of the thinner shaft. It's not so much the shaft, or the tip, it's the stroke. The thicker shaft and the nickel radius are more forgiving
 
Don't agree with this from Dr. Dave.

Conclusions:
-" Nickel or dime radius only makes a difference on very small diameter tips."

Unless Dr. Dave is including an 11.75 as a very small diameter tip.

As I seen many a player that can play with a 12.75 tip that is all
over the place with an11.75 tip.

It especially shows up on long straight shots.
 
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itsfroze said:
Don't agree with this from Dr. Dave.

Conclusions:
-" Nickel or dime radius only makes a difference on very small diameter tips."

Unless Dr. Dave is including an 11.75 as a very small diameter tip.

As I seen many a player that can play with a 12.75 tip that is all
over the place with an11.75 tip.

It especially shows up on long straight shots.
Click to expand...


Read the entire section on "size and shape". Your point is supported just before the first diagram. Patrick's conclusions were made in a sub-section about miscuing.
 
itsfroze said:
Don't agree with this from Dr. Dave.

Conclusions:
-" Nickel or dime radius only makes a difference on very small diameter tips."

Unless Dr. Dave is including an 11.75 as a very small diameter tip.

As I seen many a player that can play with a 12.75 tip that is all
over the place with an11.75 tip.

It especially shows up on long straight shots.
Click to expand...

With either size tip, the "contact area" of the tip is still 3 mm. What usually happens when one switches to a smaller diameter tip, is that they now have a looser bridge than they did before. They automatically have their fingers in the same position, but now there is a little more "slop" between their fingers and the cue. This allows for more error if the stroke is not dead straight to start with.
 
fERrELZ said:
Your experiment is flawed. You came up with a hypothesis and tested using a biased test group. The hypothesis likely affected the outcome.

That said, it is a simple geometrical exercise to prove that slight movements off of center will have a greater effect with a smaller radius tip. In other words, if the axis of the stick is X mm off center, the contact point of the tip will be further off center of the ball with a dime radius than with a nickel radius.

The question is...is it enough different to make a difference in accuracy? I contend it is only if you let it.
Click to expand...

I totally agree. If you think some factor will reduce accuracy, you will make fewer balls.
 
itsfroze said:
Don't agree with this from Dr. Dave.

Conclusions:
-" Nickel or dime radius only makes a difference on very small diameter tips."

Unless Dr. Dave is including an 11.75 as a very small diameter tip.

As I seen many a player that can play with a 12.75 tip that is all
over the place with an11.75 tip.

It especially shows up on long straight shots.
Click to expand...

The shaft size inconsistency comes from the fact that you cannot see the center of your tip so you are judging center from what you can see which is the edge of the ferrule/tip... Until you retrain yourself in coming down from 12.75 to 11.75 you will be consistently missing where you think you are hitting by 1/4 mm....
 
The Renfro said:
The shaft size inconsistency comes from the fact that you cannot see the center of your tip so you are judging center from what you can see which is the edge of the ferrule/tip... Until you retrain yourself in coming down from 12.75 to 11.75 you will be consistently missing where you think you are hitting by 1/4 mm....
Click to expand...

Yeah, right. So you misjudge the center by half of the change in diameter...in this case it is 1/2mm, not 1/4mm. That is the same as six sheets of cheap notebook paper. Hitting twenty thousandths differently is not going to change where a ball goes by any significant amount.
 
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