No Deflection

[Patrick Johnson]

I did this test with a friend one day, we happened to have about 8 different shafts between us on different cues.

We played a low right-spin shot off a rail to see how far back downtable we can get.

See my caveman like picture of the shot, the solid line vs broken line was about what we got from different shaft and tips combination.

Least spin to most spin
Standard shaft, 1 layer tip - solid line
Standard shaft layered tip
LD shaft, 1 layer tip
LD shaft, layered tip - broken line

Going from each of those got us another half diamond closer to the corner pocket on that shot. Note this picture is a rough setup of what we did, not exact ball placement.

We each shot with each combination 3 times, so 6 shots per shaft/tip combination which would be good enough to remove any sort of stoke inconsistency. We were both pretty consistent as to where the cueball ended up with each shaft.


View attachment 529400

Congrats on testing it, but I think there are too many uncontrolled variables in this test to give meaningful results. You can't tell (from what I see) where/how hard the CB was hit, where the OB was hit, exactly where the CB/OB were located, to name a few.

See my simple spin comparison test for ways to control these things: https://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?p=6459673#post6459673

pj
chgo

 

[ShootingArts]

Interesting and Thanks!

I did this test with a friend one day, we happened to have about 8 different shafts between us on different cues.

We played a low right-spin shot off a rail to see how far back downtable we can get.

See my caveman like picture of the shot, the solid line vs broken line was about what we got from different shaft and tips combination.

Least spin to most spin
Standard shaft, 1 layer tip - solid line
Standard shaft layered tip
LD shaft, 1 layer tip
LD shaft, layered tip - broken line

Going from each of those got us another half diamond closer to the corner pocket on that shot. Note this picture is a rough setup of what we did, not exact ball placement.
With an LD shaft and a layered tip we were able to hit the short rail a few times past the pocket, we were not able to do that with any standard shaft.

We each shot with each combination 3 times, so 6 shots per shaft/tip combination which would be good enough to remove any sort of stoke inconsistency. We were both pretty consistent as to where the cueball ended up with each shaft.


View attachment 529400

Thank you for posting this! Demonstrates that these things work and we aren't just pouring out money on hype. I'm not a high tech kind of guy and my current shaft is a simple flat laminate from when the blanks were put on sale for I think eight bucks apiece. One layer tip, I think I will hold my opinion that the right one layer tip isn't a handicap.

I have to admit to lusting in my soul as Jimmy Swaggert would have said, for my friend's 11.8 Revo. That thing hits sweet. I feared a boingy crappy hit, thought it could have been the opposite too. I was on a snooker table last time around so I have to qualify that I was using the light balls but that shaft definitely gave feedback in the same range as wood and pocketed those little balls a lot better than my 13mm shaft that I had been using.

I don't know that I will jump on the Revo bandwagon no more than I play these days but I would certainly bite the bullet if I was still competing or gambling regularly. I wish one of those had been in the test but I am grateful for what you were able to test. Sometimes results are surprising, sometimes not.

Thanks again both for the the testing and the effort posting a picture and the results. All my drawings are caveman like these days. The embarrassing thing is I am a former draftsman and CAD operator, I should draw pretty!

Hu

 

[hang-the-9]

Thank you for posting this! Demonstrates that these things work and we aren't just pouring out money on hype. I'm not a high tech kind of guy and my current shaft is a simple flat laminate from when the blanks were put on sale for I think eight bucks apiece. One layer tip, I think I will hold my opinion that the right one layer tip isn't a handicap.

I have to admit to lusting in my soul as Jimmy Swaggert would have said, for my friend's 11.8 Revo. That thing hits sweet. I feared a boingy crappy hit, thought it could have been the opposite too. I was on a snooker table last time around so I have to qualify that I was using the light balls but that shaft definitely gave feedback in the same range as wood and pocketed those little balls a lot better than my 13mm shaft that I had been using.

I don't know that I will jump on the Revo bandwagon no more than I play these days but I would certainly bite the bullet if I was still competing or gambling regularly. I wish one of those had been in the test but I am grateful for what you were able to test. Sometimes results are surprising, sometimes not.

Thanks again both for the the testing and the effort posting a picture and the results. All my drawings are caveman like these days. The embarrassing thing is I am a former draftsman and CAD operator, I should draw pretty!

Hu

This should be pretty easy to try for anyone that has several shafts around, which I am sure most of us on the forums do LOL

My friend has better spin than I do with being able to make the shot, which is why we did this test with each of us shooting it 3 times, where we made the ball. If we missed we did not count that try since that would change the angle quite a bit. So it was 3 shots each, two different players. 6 tries times a bunch of shafts, with B+, A- shooters. We did not have a Revo to try, this was well before they came out, but we did have an OB, Players HXT and two custom LD shafts by Mike Webb. And a few standard shafts from Mike Webb and Ned Morris of varying diameters and tips.

 

[ShootingArts]

Kinda shaftless ...

This should be pretty easy to try for anyone that has several shafts around, which I am sure most of us on the forums do LOL

My friend has better spin than I do with being able to make the shot, which is why we did this test with each of us shooting it 3 times, where we made the ball. If we missed we did not count that try since that would change the angle quite a bit. So it was 3 shots each, two different players. 6 tries times a bunch of shafts, with B+, A- shooters. We did not have a Revo to try, this was well before they came out, but we did have an OB, Players HXT and two custom LD shafts by Mike Webb. And a few standard shafts from Mike Webb and Ned Morris of varying diameters and tips.

When I had my cue lathe set up and over a gross of blanks ready to turn I gave away shafts all the time. When I wanted another, I just selected a decent but not great blank, gave it the bounce test, and cut myself another shaft. I had used over one inch thick subflooring to floor my shop with so I found the bounce test to work well. Judging by how a shaft bounced and sounded was better than a visual examination. Now that I have lost my river of wood I don't have many shafts and no blanks survived.

I just thought of something. I could set the shot up with a couple of notebook donuts and offer five bucks to whomever could get the ball to hit furthest down the rail. I'm sure the competition would be intense. Not so much for the five bucks as for bragging rights.

Hu

 

[Bob Jewett]

... I just thought of something. I could set the shot up with a couple of notebook donuts and offer five bucks to whomever could get the ball to hit furthest down the rail. I'm sure the competition would be intense. Not so much for the five bucks as for bragging rights.

Hu

I think there's a good chance a snooker player would win that. One of the purest, most lively strokes I've even seen was on a local snooker player. One time I bet him he couldn't shoot in the blue from the jaws of a corner pocket and draw back to scratch in the same pocket on a 6x12. Eighth try.

 

[ShootingArts]

Good Chance You Are Right!

I think there's a good chance a snooker player would win that. One of the purest, most lively strokes I've even seen was on a local snooker player. One time I bet him he couldn't shoot in the blue from the jaws of a corner pocket and draw back to scratch in the same pocket on a 6x12. Eighth try.

The snooker stance and style results in more contact points than a pool player usually has. The stick is constrained into a channel better and the snooker player hits exactly where he intends to. I watched a match recently where a player was well snookered. With their funny rules that you can make the other player keep trying over and over I think it was four tries before the player hit the ball after a three rail kick.

What impressed me, 6x12 championship table and he wouldn't settle for hitting the ball. He wanted to thin it for a return safety and kept shooting until he did. Most pool players would have settled for a solid hit and to get out of that mess, after three misses the snooker player persisted in a thinner than deli ham slice.

Not sure about when compared to the cueists shooting without pockets but I think that the snooker players are the best with holes involved. Russian pyramid is tough but with every ball being able to be the cue ball and every ball able to be the object ball I think you are mostly shooting straight in and cuts, no banks or kicks. Maybe a few at the end of a game. I have only seen a little russian pyramid on video so obviously I'm not very qualified to talk about it.

It is still a bit of different strokes for different folks. Ronnie didn't embarrass himself but he didn't set the IPT on fire either. Had the IPT lasted Ronnie probably would have won a big event or two. He had and has incredible skills, we saw then that the skills don't always transfer.

I am impressed with the guy nailing your prop shot. Wonder how long it would have taken him to do it three times? Were his misses close or getting closer all the time?

Hu

 

[Bob Jewett]

... I am impressed with the guy nailing your prop shot. Wonder how long it would have taken him to do it three times? Were his misses close or getting closer all the time?

Hu

As I recall, I didn't like my chances by the third shot. Of course he was shooting with an open bridge up on the pocket liner.

 

[Patrick Johnson]

Of course he was shooting with an open bridge up on the pocket liner.

Well, no wonder you lost the bet - you let him use both hands!

pj <- unless you only let him use his bridge hand...
chgo