"No Limit 9 Ball

Grady

Pro Player
On another newsgroup someone described Mars whatever his last name is as a genius. No genius would put his name on "Pool Hall Junkies". This is just another put-down of our sport, another attempt to make pool like a circus or wrestling.
We don't need Skins Games or Matt Braun type stuff or this upcoming thing, at least untul we are highly popular with championship play by our pros.
Look what Bobby Jones did for golf, by establishing a great tournament, on a near perfect golf course and steeped in sports history and championship golf.
All of our prevailing orgs. are too inept and stupid to grasp this. They play along with the awful status quo.
That's all I have to say and I wish I didn't have to be the one to say it. But somebody needs to and I guess if it has to be me, that's tough.
 
This isn't a professional tournament. It is merely for entertainment values. It's not like they are ripping off anyone when they hustle, it's not really even a hustle at all. The show is actually the ones putting up the money, so they are not really doing anything except trying to be the last one with all the money. Reminds me of the World Poker tournament or something.
 
Grady said:
...We don't need Skins Games or Matt Braun type stuff or this upcoming thing, at least untul we are highly popular with championship play by our pros...That's all I have to say and I wish I didn't have to be the one to say it. But somebody needs to and I guess if it has to be me, that's tough.

Hey, Grady, I don't really like to say much on some topics, but I think you are in the wrong there. The Skins was one of the most exciting events that I have been to in the last 20 years. It sort of reminded me of Lake Tahoe all over again, but with all the excitement. There was more pressure on every player, and it showed. You sort of got to see what you were made of, and I know you understand about pressure.

If they only had more events like that, that is what would help our sport, not all of this negativity thrown up on a forum.

Second of all, if you think your ring games are such a bargain, to put up $3,000 to $5,000 with no monies added to play Efren Reyes and the other sponsored ring game regulars, you need to take a second look. I can play Efren Reyes for $30 a game a blow $200 to him. I can put my $3,000 to $5,000 in a little better spot. I guess if I was getting staked, like everybody else in the ring games, it would be simply marvelous!

Earthquake out!
 
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Grady said:
Look what Bobby Jones did for golf, by establishing a great tournament, on a near perfect golf course and steeped in sports history and championship golf.

I thought you had issues with these invitational type of events, prefering 'open' style events as being more fair to the players ? The Masters is quite a different event relative to PGA Tour tournaments and amateur events. It has a very unique position in the world of golf in terms of who gets in and who doesn't. I found it interesting that you would hold it in such high esteem.

Dave
 
DaveK said:
I thought you had issues with these invitational type of events, prefering 'open' style events as being more fair to the players ? The Masters is quite a different event relative to PGA Tour tournaments and amateur events. It has a very unique position in the world of golf in terms of who gets in and who doesn't. I found it interesting that you would hold it in such high esteem.

Dave



The Masters isn't invitational. They have very strict guidelines for who is qualified to play. I don't do invitationals either. I have never not had "open" events.
Let's talk about ring games for a minute. I played in some that ran from $500 a game to $1,000 a game against what were the best in the world probably and BET MY OWN MONEY. There certainly was never an instance where someone was told that they were too good to play or that they were barred.
I repeat, nicely: The Skins Game, Matt Brauns fiasco of an event and this Mars character's stuff isn't what pool needs.
 
Grady said:
We don't need Skins Games or Matt Braun type stuff or this upcoming thing, at least untul we are highly popular with championship play by our pros.

I must disagree with Grady. I thought that the skins format was very entertaining to watch and really enjoyed it. The players seemed to have a great time and the possible return was pretty good for all. I also must agree with Keith that the Grady Ring Game is a pretty expensive gamble for most. Fun to watch but not so much fun if you have to stake yourself for 5 Large and hope for a 1 in 6 chance of taking the cash against the best players in the world. Not odds that many would like to put their money against.
As far as the no limits action, it might be entertaining. Pool needs more exposure and those of us who love the game are always looking for a something new and exciting.
Grady, maybe you do not need the Skins Game, but many of the fans and players as it seesm, enjoyed it very much.

My 2 cents...

Peace, JOE
 
Just my .02...
I never seen the Skins game nor did I see Grady's Ring game.
I think what pool needs to be successful is ONE Player Organization and minimul Tours and the players can play in as many tours as they want, pending status (Pro/Am). We need sponsorship outside our industry, we need money coming in to have excess, not use what we have. That financial cushion will come in handy at a much more needed time. The YOUTH! We need to focus a little more on the future of our sport and that can only be done with the Youth organizations (or lack thereof). We have to have something to draw people to watch our sport. Look at all the fans at major sporting events, it's a lot more than there are players! Pool has way more players than fans...gotta fix that. Jeanette Lee has brought so much to our industy, why? At the first site, she's nice to look at, then we realize she can play. The more we learn about her, the more we realize she's deeply involved in our sport, not just on the outside, but inside as well. We have to have more "Ambassadors" to the non-pool players!
Keep the ring games coming Grady, keep the Skins games coming as well!

JMO,
Zim
 
Gremlin said:
Grady,

I have kept quiet up to now. But I disagree with you on the skins game it's great but I wish a euro hadn't won it. As for the stupid hustler tv series I have never seen or met an amateur hustler? If the show will not be aired on one of the four major networks it will be worthless to pool. I consider it just more trash television. ESPN FILLER!!!!!!!!!!!!

Mars is where he is from. LOL pool hall junkies was a c movie at best.
Love ya, Grady and Keith but that's my 2 cents.

Harry



How many invites have Keith or I gotten to Braun's thing or anything from Barry Hearn? Wait a sec, I can answer that!! None, zero,nada, etc.
Did no one notice that I played in the $2,000 entry fee Bank pool ring game? You didn't hear me complaining about it. I'm not a wealthy man.
The entry fee this year at the DCC for the 10 Ball was $3,000, not $5,000.
Mr. Mathews wonders why JAM has turned into a Hopkins lackey?
 
Non Pool Playing Audience = $$$

BOTTOM LINE!

Non Pool Playing Audience = Big $$$
Big $$$ - Comes from National Advertisers.

Big $$$ will solve ALL problems with pool.

The Non Pool Playing Audience has to be entertained.

Pool is NOT entertaining to the non player AS IS.

The skill won't sell and never has.

The COLOR may.

Why not try, we have nothing to lose.

Meanwhile, Enjoy The Derby City Classic.

TY & GL
 
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Grady said:
The Masters isn't invitational. They have very strict guidelines for who is qualified to play. I don't do invitationals either. I have never not had "open" events.

Those qualified to play get an invitation to this invitational event. It is not an open event, it is an invitational event. Yes they have qualification criteria, set entirely by the Masters, which is run by the Augusta National Golf Club. They and they alone decide who gets invited and who does not. Here is some text from their official website, note the repeated use of the word 'invite' and how the Master folks can decide upon inviting whoever they feel like. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but that statement about international players not otherwise qualified might have been added after the Greg Norman episode. Bottom line, the Masters is an invitational event, not an open event. The US Open is an Open event, notwithstanding that you must have a recognized PGA handicap at a particular level to get into the regional qualifiers, but essentially anyone can enter. That is an open event.

Dave


2005 Masters Invitations

Tuesday, January 18, 2005


A total of 96 players have been invited to the 2005 Masters Tournament, it was announced today by Hootie Johnson, Chairman of the Masters Tournament and Augusta National Golf Club. The list includes 54 US and 42 International players. Among the field are four amateurs and 14 first-time participants.

In accordance with qualifications, invitations have also been sent to Honorary Invitees. The Masters Tournament will be contested April 4-10.

"We have outstanding players competing in this year's field," Johnson said. "We are hoping for another exciting Tournament like we had in 2004."

In addition, Johnson announced a special invitation had been given to Shingo Katayama. Katayama finished first on the Japan Golf Tour Money list and captured two events. He competed in the 2004 PGA Championship and played twice in the World Golf Championships. He has participated in the Masters three times (2001-2003).

Several opportunities still remain for players to compete in this year's event. Invitations may also be issued to those not qualified to date who:
* Win The Players Championship in 2005.
* Finish among the 10 leaders on the 2005 Official PGA Tour Money List published during the week prior to the Masters.
* Finish among the 50 leaders on the 2005 Official World Golf Ranking published during the week prior to the Masters

The Masters Committee, at its discretion, also may invite additional International players not otherwise qualified.
 
I'm going to disagree with you on this one too. Please don't take this as an attack on you, but I'm gonna add my 2 cents. First of all I enjoyed Poolhall Junkies. It was probably the worst of the pool movies I have seen, but the others, TCOM and The Hustler, were acadamy award nominated masterpieces, kinda hard to beat. As far as Mars Callahan is concerned, i don't think he is hurting the sport. As far as i can tell he is alot like all of us, grew up playing pool (he is apparently a good player) dreaming about making a pool movie, winning tournaments, making pool bigger, etc... I think he is trying to do whatever he can to help. Whether he is headed in the right direction is debatable. Lets look at the facts (or my version anyways). In my area Poolhall Junkies helped pool alot. Lots of players are playing pool in a town with no poolhall. I saw this increase myself, everyone was talking about the movie. This was the general public, not pool players, that started playing as a direct result of that movie. Isn't that what we are trying to do, bring the public in. Isn't that what Nationwide, ING, Crest, and every other company that sponsors golf want to see? A large public following. If it helps bring the public in, they will turn into players, and looking back probably change thier mind from likeing to dislikeing stupid pool movies, TV shows, etc... That's the day they turn into. 'Pool Players'. Also take a look at golf. The PGA tour is the main part of a golf pros career, but what about the Skins game, the Shark Shootout, Matchplay events, Father son Challenges? Are they on TV? Yes. Are the Pros making good money from these events? Yes. Do they enjoy the break from regular tournament play? We would have to ask, but i would assume yes. What is this TV show gonna do? Giving pool players $20,000 dollars. I'm not sure of the details, but maybe its $20,000 a week!!! If its on a decent network, or even if its not, its gonna bring more exposure to pool. No publicity is bad publicity. Having some idiot hustler on there with no respect spitting and drinking, IMHO does not hurt pool. It creates a little personality. If you have 4 guys like that it is a problem. But lets hope Mars Callahan is smart enough to sneak a Danny Hariman, or Rodney Morris in there. A few nice guys. I hate to compare to wrestling, but where would they be if there weren't good guys and bad guys to root for and against. Again, not something us pool players want, but we do need to 'Convert' the general public to our 'Pool Religion'. In conclusion, i don't think the $20,000 and a possible negative image is going to hurt that ball. Tennis had McEnroe, Golf has John Daly (I'm a fan), basketball and football have a even larger group of 'Bad Guys'. They arent ruining thier sports. They just add a little spice.
 
JPB said:
Charles Sifford might disagree.



Sifford became the first black golfer to break the color barrier, at about a time when that was happening in many other places and sports. I don't like a lot of what Augusta National and the Masters have done and stand for, like no women members and only token minority membership.I don't thimk it's fair to use him as an example. It was long ago.
I have always considered myself to be completely unbiased but I used to workout every day to Sports Center but no more. It practically makes me sick to hear about the spoiled athletes and I'm very weary of the Black Coaches Assn. They even tried to get people to boycott South Carolina games because the university hired Steve Spurrier.
I've for years felt that I wasn't given a fair chance to do TV commentary. All I ask is a fair audition. I think I'm better than what's currently on.
I don't want to get into a lengthy tirade. I feel though, that if I don't speak out against what I think is really bad for our sport, noone will.
 
Grady said:
...Look what Bobby Jones did for golf, by establishing a great tournament, on a near perfect golf course and steeped in sports history and championship golf....


Grady said:
...I don't like a lot of what Augusta National and the Masters have done and stand for, like no women members and only token minority membership...

Now I'm really confused :confused: Of course some might say that's pretty normal for me.

Dave
 
I really enjoyed the skins game. Especially the part where the winner stays at the table until he loses. I can watch all the pros play in one hour. Much more entertaining than watching just two pros play for one hour. Some of those matches can get pretty boring.

I agree with OHB.

Maybe one day the pros will learn that they should be paid to play - not pay to play. And the only way for that to happen is to get fans in the audiance.

Next week there is supposed to be some sort of football game and I heard a ticket price of $500. None availabe anymore. That's for one ticket. And that is the face price. Not scalp. Heard of a guy taking an equity loan on his home because he figures the day will cost him $4,000.

And 100 miles down the road in Daytona there will be a car race. And of course that is sold out too.

It just proves that people will pay to be entertained. The pool pros have to figure out how to entertain the public. That is the only way you will get your hands on their money. And after all, that's what it's all about isn't it? Getting your hands on somebody else's money.

Jake
 
jjinfla said:
I really enjoyed the skins game. Especially the part where the winner stays at the table until he loses. I can watch all the pros play in one hour. Much more entertaining than watching just two pros play for one hour. Some of those matches can get pretty boring.

I agree with OHB.

Maybe one day the pros will learn that they should be paid to play - not pay to play. And the only way for that to happen is to get fans in the audiance.

Next week there is supposed to be some sort of football game and I heard a ticket price of $500. None availabe anymore. That's for one ticket. And that is the face price. Not scalp. Heard of a guy taking an equity loan on his home because he figures the day will cost him $4,000.

And 100 miles down the road in Daytona there will be a car race. And of course that is sold out too.

It just proves that people will pay to be entertained. The pool pros have to figure out how to entertain the public. That is the only way you will get your hands on their money. And after all, that's what it's all about isn't it? Getting your hands on somebody else's money.

Jake

You said it all right there Jake. It is called covetousness. ie: GREEDY.
Or perhaps a lack of faith. I gamble with my wife. All the winnings must be spent on table time, food, and beverage. We both win. If I can't earn it, I don't want it......
Purdman :cool:
 
jjinfla said:
I really enjoyed the skins game. Especially the part where the winner stays at the table until he loses. I can watch all the pros play in one hour. Much more entertaining than watching just two pros play for one hour. Some of those matches can get pretty boring...It just proves that people will pay to be entertained. The pool pros have to figure out how to entertain the public. That is the only way you will get your hands on their money. And after all, that's what it's all about isn't it? Getting your hands on somebody else's money.

Good observations, JJinFLA! Keith McCready and MANY other pro players were approached by Allen Hopkins last September at the '04 U.S. Open about competing in the Skins Billiards Championship. The field was limited to 16 players in this pilot event. $50,000 in added monies, the total purse was $130,000. It was such a huge success that there is another exhibition in the making I recently heard about from Allen himself, and I'm sure we will all be reading about it as soon as it is released and finalized. :cool:

Having been absent from the pool world for about 20 years, the only thing I knew about Allen Hopkins was from what I read in print media and heard from the rumor mill. Fortunately, I not only got the chance to meet the man, but my recent interactions with him have led me to form the belief that he has the exact same goals and ambitions as others who desire to promote the sport. He doesn't toot his own horn and pump his chest about how unfair this pool world has been to him. On the contrary, he is one of the guys who makes things happen and continues to bring championship-level play in a variety of venues.

A good example of his fairness to all is that EVERYBODY is welcome to compete at the Super Billiards Expo, held in Valley Forge, Pennsylvania, every single year. He does not exclude anybody from his events, whether you are a member of an organization or an independent.

For those who enjoyed seeing the first-ever Skins tourney, it is going to be broadcast again on these dates:

February 2, 6:00 p.m., ESPN2
February 3, 6:00 p.m., ESPN2
February 4, 8:00 p.m., ESPN2
February 10, Noon, 1:00, 4:30, and 5:30 p.m., ESPN2
February 20, 4:00 p.m., ESPN

Have you ever noticed that Allen Hopkins' tournaments, whether it is the pro event in Valley Forge or the Skins tournament held last November, ALWAYS fill up well ahead of time? Pool players have learned from experience that it is crucial to pay entry fees ahead of time, or else get left out. That speaks volumes about the quality of Allen Hopkins' events (IMO).

Kid Delicious procrastinated paying his entry fee to the Skins and had to remain on a waiting list, in case of any no-shows. I'll betcha he won't make that mistake again. He really wanted to compete for the $130,000 total prize monies. Matter of fact, ask any one of the 16 combatants who did compete at the Atlantic City Hilton Casino how much they enjoyed themselves, not to mention the fact that every single one of them was gunning for that money, one of the BIGGEST purses I have ever seen in my lifetime in pool. I can't wait for the next one.

Pool needs more folks like Allen Hopkins (IMO). I am grateful to have had the golden opportunity to get to know him a bit, and I look forward to MANY, MANY more of his topnotch events in the future. Whatever he is involved in, you can be sure it will be first class and attract the best pool players in the world.

JAM's pics of 2004 Skins Billiard Championship

Picture of Keith and Allen Hopkins.

JAM
 

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OldHasBeen said:
BOTTOM LINE!

Non Pool Playing Audience = Big $$$
Big $$$ - Comes from National Advertisers.

Big $$$ will solve ALL problems with pool.

The Non Pool Playing Audience has to be entertained.

Pool is NOT entertaining to the non player AS IS.

The skill won't sell and never has.

The COLOR may.

Why not try, we have nothing to lose.

Meanwhile, Enjoy The Derby City Classic.

TY & GL


BINGO!!! Concise and on the button!
 
JAM said:
Pool needs more folks like Allen Hopkins (IMO). JAM

i nominate allen for president........of the upa that is....... :D

on the same subject, i was at the hilton, and i loved the skins format. where else is there the possibility to see the personalites of keith mccready, rodney morris, and the pearl, all in the same game at the same table. i agree with jj that is much easier to watch 4 players play each other for an hour than watch two players play for an hour. i hope that allen hopkins puts together more tournaments in the time to come.......it would be nice to see 3 or 4 allen hopkins events each year.

on the subject of no limit 9 ball....... :( ......i think its a good idea, but i think its being presented and handled the wrong way. i hope i'm wrong and it gets aired as much as no limit hold em........but i think the format they are using isn't the best.

thanks
 
Grady said:
On another newsgroup someone described Mars whatever his last name is as a genius. No genius would put his name on "Pool Hall Junkies". This is just another put-down of our sport, another attempt to make pool like a circus or wrestling.
We don't need Skins Games or Matt Braun type stuff or this upcoming thing, at least untul we are highly popular with championship play by our pros.
Look what Bobby Jones did for golf, by establishing a great tournament, on a near perfect golf course and steeped in sports history and championship golf.
All of our prevailing orgs. are too inept and stupid to grasp this. They play along with the awful status quo.
That's all I have to say and I wish I didn't have to be the one to say it. But somebody needs to and I guess if it has to be me, that's tough.

Who is this "we" anyway? "We" need this or "we" need that, "we" should, "we " shouldn't...bah! I know what I like; I have no idea what "we" like.

I'm gonna wait until I see what the results are before I complain or praise this format.

How about encouraging as many people as possible to try things to help pool, and themselves, and then judge by the results? It's called freedom and it usually results in the best product being purchased. If this format is unpopular, the market will tell.

Jeff Livingston

P.S. I like Pool Hall Junkies, and I like the Masters...hmmm...
 
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