ScottW said:
IMO, having separate smoking and non-smoking sections is like having a peeing and non-peeing section in a public swimming pool.
no smoking as of 4-15... ways to get around?
- Thread starter wannaplaySOME?
- Start date
IMO, having separate smoking and non-smoking sections is like having a peeing and non-peeing section in a public swimming pool.
rackmsuckr said:IMO, having separate smoking and non-smoking sections is like having a peeing and non-peeing section in a public swimming pool.
I guess I wasn't really clear on how things work here - the smoking section has to be separated by walls/etc. It's not just one big room where you can "smoke over in that corner". Nothing like peeing in one side of the pool.
idiot?...
are you calling me an idiot for the title of my post? if not i apoligize as you can see where the confusion would come from...
Barbara said:[insert idiot title here]no smoking as of 4-15... ways to get around?[/insert]
Yeah, don't go to New Jersey.
Barbara
are you calling me an idiot for the title of my post? if not i apoligize as you can see where the confusion would come from...
pooltchr said:
Wow, you should really read everything I wrote before responding. My point about "bipartisan support" simply had to do with the popularity of the law and how one could not simply blame one party for it over another. This had nothing to do with whether or not the law was right or wrong. It simply can't be defined as "Republican" or "Democrat".
The problem with most politicians is that they fail to convey the entire truth. Does this have a familiar ring?
rackmsuckr said:IMO, having separate smoking and non-smoking sections is like having a peeing and non-peeing section in a public swimming pool.
Even as a smoker, I have to say that's a pretty good analogy.
wannaplaySOME? said:
It's a LAW now. If you weren't established as a tobacconer with an acceptable sales percentage per law, you cannot have smoking in your public establishment.
And yes, I am calling this a stupid thread. You start a lot of hot air and have absolutely no power to be able change this situation. And then you just sit back and complain and whine about it. You know what? If you really want to change matters then get into politics and get voted onto your local board of whatever. Then get voted into some city's council. Then get voted to Mayor and take on the State's Government to really affect a change. This is where this no-smoking ban came from.
Barbara
ScottW said:I guess I wasn't really clear on how things work here - the smoking section has to be separated by walls/etc. It's not just one big room where you can "smoke over in that corner". Nothing like peeing in one side of the pool.
It's the same thing, unless there is a separate ventilation system.
I've been some places where that is the criteria. It is okay to have a smoking section, even in a restaurant, as long as it is closed off from the non-smoking section AND has a completely separate ventilation system.
IMO that was a win/win solution.
Last edited:
wow...
wow... what did I do to you in another life? i asked a question.. isn't that what forums are for? this post was to ascertain information, I hadn't realized that it was piss you off so much? i apoligize for angering you although i do think it was unwarranted... hope you had a nice holiday and a great day! FYI i never once complained or whined about this, i asked a question and if that was the problem from the start then sue me.. or don't read the thread if it pisses you off that much. thanks.
Barbara said:
wow... what did I do to you in another life? i asked a question.. isn't that what forums are for? this post was to ascertain information, I hadn't realized that it was piss you off so much? i apoligize for angering you although i do think it was unwarranted... hope you had a nice holiday and a great day! FYI i never once complained or whined about this, i asked a question and if that was the problem from the start then sue me.. or don't read the thread if it pisses you off that much. thanks.
A question. It seems the majority of the people (Including non-smokers) would have a problem with smoking bans in your private residence. After all you paid for the house. The furniture in the house. You pay the water, gas, electric, and other utilities. You consider this your "PRIVATE PROPERTY" for these reasons.
Now why do we keep calling a Private Business PUBLIC Area? A courthouse is Public. A Government highschool is Public. Those are financed by tax money including the money from a Private business. So why should the government have say in how a Private Business is ran?
After all the pool hall owner (Who is a citizen and protected under the constitution) has to pay for the tables with their money. With 20 Gold Crown 4s that equals around $200,000. The building leases can be around $7,000 a month. Think how much those cool Neon signs cost. The carpet for the building. Also think of the wonderful electric bill that is nice and low thanks to all those nice Diamond lights hanging over your table. Oh yeah. When you get drunk and hit the bathroom every 5 minutes those expensive commercial grade toilets can suck down some water. Then you have to pay your employees.
You look at a decent pool hall and you can probably bet there is close to a million dollars invested in it. That's just to open. It's unlikely your house is worth that much. So why are you special in your little home and a pool hall owner has to get kicked in the balls by people like you because for $10 an hour you want to basically be in your own personal smoke free home.
Now why do we keep calling a Private Business PUBLIC Area? A courthouse is Public. A Government highschool is Public. Those are financed by tax money including the money from a Private business. So why should the government have say in how a Private Business is ran?
After all the pool hall owner (Who is a citizen and protected under the constitution) has to pay for the tables with their money. With 20 Gold Crown 4s that equals around $200,000. The building leases can be around $7,000 a month. Think how much those cool Neon signs cost. The carpet for the building. Also think of the wonderful electric bill that is nice and low thanks to all those nice Diamond lights hanging over your table. Oh yeah. When you get drunk and hit the bathroom every 5 minutes those expensive commercial grade toilets can suck down some water. Then you have to pay your employees.
You look at a decent pool hall and you can probably bet there is close to a million dollars invested in it. That's just to open. It's unlikely your house is worth that much. So why are you special in your little home and a pool hall owner has to get kicked in the balls by people like you because for $10 an hour you want to basically be in your own personal smoke free home.
smittie1984 said:
Because a business operates with a license and all the rules and regulations that go along with it. Even in your home you are governed by laws and regulations, there are not that many differences. Start burning leaves in your back yard or park a boat in your yard if there's a city ordinance against it and you will have problems. Have you ever owned a house or built one? Your home is not completely yours to do as you please there are rules. Don't be so silly with all this do as you please stuff, it don't work like that. I am curious, where are all these million dollar pool rooms you are talking about?
By the way, you think your house is your private property, don't pay your taxes and you will find your house with a lien on it and being auctioned off on the court house steps to a guy like me. Don't pay me and you will lose your house. People can be real idiots when it comes to this stuff. They end up with liens on their house because they didn't clean up their yard or didn't do repairs they were supposed to. They get like $200 a day fines slapped on them and they ignore the notices or refuse to pay thinking "It's my house you can't tell me what to do". Then they find themselves owing the city like $50,000 or $60,000 or sometimes more then the house is even worth and are at the commission meeting in tears saying "I didn't know please don't make me have to pay the money". I see like two dozen of them every month with the same stories, all idiots with the same problem that didn't even have to happen if they had a brain in their heads..
Last edited:
I'm a bit torn on the issue. On one side, I don't like telling people what to do. Even though smoking has been proven to be detrimental to ones health.
At the same time, I enjoy going to bars, pool halls, and restaurants; while not having to deal with the negative effects of second-hand smoke.
At the same time, I enjoy going to bars, pool halls, and restaurants; while not having to deal with the negative effects of second-hand smoke.
Last edited:
matthew said:
Very interesting post. Regarding smoking being bad for one's health, a key factor that is suspiciously missing in most of the research I've seen on it is the threshold factor. That is, how much smoking, or smoke, is actually dangerous? Apparently it depends on the person, and their propensity to be adversely affected by it. I did some research on this recently and was quite surprised to see how what passes for normal scientific research basically ignores the threshold factor. As an example of this, we are all exposed to radiation, usually on a daily basis. The sun emits it, for instance. It can cause skin cancer. However, radiation in and of itself in small doses doesn't really cause us harm. It's when the doses are heavier. At at certain exposure level, radiation sickness will set in, and depending on how much radiation a person has absorbed in a given amount of time, they will die. Smoke is somewhat similar, I suppose. At a certain level, smoke inhalation, especially toxic smoke, will kill. Less than whatever the threshold is for death will make one sick. Less yet will provoke uncontrolled coughing, and so on, until a person won't feel any serious effects from it.
Why don't we read and hear about serious studies analyzing these points -- threshold points -- in regards to cigarette smoke? Or pipe smoke? Or cigar smoke?
Flex
I live in Calif.....At first everyone complained that business was down 30%...But after a short time it was back and even better. At my bowling center they have a room , surronded by glass so you can see out, and smokers can go in and smoke if they want...
In the bar league I play in, smokers just pop outside and smoke and look in thru the windows to see whats happening.
We have 40 teams in our league. No one complains or says anything about not smoking inside anymore. In the beginnning they did just like some are doing on this site now. But time changes things.
Now even the smokers say they like it better. No cloudy, foggy rooms hard to see in. No more burning red eyes. No more stink..
You can ***** all you want but its a law and nothing will change it. Just learn to accept it because "thats the way it is"...
Your not going to quit playing pool and neither are 99% of the rest of the players. Its a law and no matter Democrat, Republian, or whoever did this, its done. Get over it...
By the way. If they took a vote in your state. The non-smokers out number the smokers and you would have the law anyway. This is a fact in every state...Even some smokers said they would favor this law..
Life is short as it is..If this is the biggest worry in your life than you are lucky.
In the bar league I play in, smokers just pop outside and smoke and look in thru the windows to see whats happening.
We have 40 teams in our league. No one complains or says anything about not smoking inside anymore. In the beginnning they did just like some are doing on this site now. But time changes things.
Now even the smokers say they like it better. No cloudy, foggy rooms hard to see in. No more burning red eyes. No more stink..
You can ***** all you want but its a law and nothing will change it. Just learn to accept it because "thats the way it is"...
Your not going to quit playing pool and neither are 99% of the rest of the players. Its a law and no matter Democrat, Republian, or whoever did this, its done. Get over it...
By the way. If they took a vote in your state. The non-smokers out number the smokers and you would have the law anyway. This is a fact in every state...Even some smokers said they would favor this law..
Life is short as it is..If this is the biggest worry in your life than you are lucky.
Barbara said:
Very interesting ideas, Barbara!
I like the political solution. However, this issue has been demagogued to death by the trial lawyers and the bigtime media. Who's the villain? Why those pesky southerners who grow the tobacco, even though it isn't usually stated quite like that. They're made out to be profiteers, who will get someone addicted to feather their nest. And that apparently really has gone on, which is awful. Turns out they did spike the cigarettes with chemicals to help addict people. However, whether or not that will make people die from second hand smoke is another thing totally. And today there is a form of public madness or fanaticism against smoking and smokers in general. So, in circumstances like these, running for office won't really change very much, especially if an overwhelming part of the populace thinks something is so, even if it isn't.
There's a lot to be said for raising this sort of question among people who can discuss it and debate it in a civilized way, and not leave it to crass political hacks, of which there are too many.
Cheers!
Flex
smittie1984 said:
The government has the right to dictate how a business is run through the Interstate Commerce Clause, Article 1, Section 7 of the United States Constitution and furthermore through the Civil Rights Act of 1964 declaring that "'commerce' means travel, trade, traffic, commerce, transportation, or communication among the several States, or between the District of Columbia and any State, or between any foreign country or any territory or possession and any State or the District of Columbia, or between points in the same State but through any other State or the District of Columbia or a foreign country."
In essence, through these two documents, the Federal government established the right to govern all businesses since all businesses inherently are involved in some form of interstate commerce. This is why a store-owner cannot refuse service to someone based on ethnicity. Furthermore, through the 10th Amendment of the United States Constitution, "The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the states, are reserved to the states respectively, or to the people."
In sum, there are hundreds of cases that have reached the Supreme Court involving government's role in private business and thousands on the District and State level. There is a tug-o-war that exists which can be best viewed in the Federal Monopoly laws or The New Deal (instances where a lack of government involvement lead to societal detriment). Many times, government has stepped-in for the public good and these measures were met with resounding approval.
Now, it is important to debate whether or not government has the right to determine if a privately owned business servicing the general public can allow smoking but to question the right of government to pass legislation regarding how a business is run is kinda silly. Of course they can.
Best quote ever!
It would be interesting to have seperate swimming pools at a park and mark them. One will be NO URINATING ALLOWED, the other PLEASE URINATE IN THIS POOL (and put no chlorine in it). And see which one is more popular.
That has to be the best analogy I have ever heard on this subject. I cant think of a single argument for the rights of "pool urinators" being violated and made second class citizens. Bravo rackmsuckr.rackmsuckr said:IMO, having separate smoking and non-smoking sections is like having a peeing and non-peeing section in a public swimming pool.
It would be interesting to have seperate swimming pools at a park and mark them. One will be NO URINATING ALLOWED, the other PLEASE URINATE IN THIS POOL (and put no chlorine in it). And see which one is more popular.
Jude Rosenstock said:
This has nothing to do with the thread, but I am constantly impressed with many of the members of this boards ability to write. Not just you but many are so articulate and their posts are very well thought out, regardless whether one agrees or not.
macguy said:
I figured it was more polite than saying, "You're full of ..." (I'm really just kidding)
Thx!
this is some great writing.... very articulate
your right.. some very articulate writers on here.
Barbara said:
your right.. some very articulate writers on here.