Non-straightforward shots in straight pool

Williebetmore said:
Papercut,
I would certainly defer to Steve's opinion. I would think, however, that the percentage of combinations is still somewhat significant, whatever the number. When balls cluster on the foot rail, there will often be a combo that is easier to sink than to try to disrupt. There also will often be balls clustered in the jaws of the pocket. While these are easy combo's, they still count (and many players will not even give them a second thought as they are not fraught with risk).

P.S. - it sounds like Irving attempts 8 combo's in 150 balls; this is definitely less than 1 attempt per rack for those estimating (and I believe there was a rack with multiple combo's, but it has been awhile since I saw it).
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Hey Willie... agreed on all counts, except sometimes you might make things worse by playing even the easiest of combos. So sometimes it's worth it to go a little out of your way to avoid even the hanging combinations, because it might mess with the position.

Willie, we should play sometime... you can teach me how to spot those dead ones. :)

- Steve
 
Willie isn't lying when he says it's his house rule to give anyone grief who passes up that kind of shot, but with my foolhardy and reckless style of straight pool it was never a problem :) A good host always encourages learning of the game even if it is through good natured ribbing :)
 
I played for 3 hours last night, and I averaged about 1 combo per rack overall. Some had 3 others none. I'm clumping them all into the "combo term" dead balls,hanging combos etc. Granted I never ran over 60 last night, but the 1 unusual shot per rack average was pretty true.

Another thought I had was the old school legends were playing on slower cloth with tougher break outs. They may have had to shoot more combos,kisses billiards etc out of necessity. The new Simonis does make for easier break shots.

There's a question....is there any possible way that 14.1 was easier on the "old school" equipment?....I've heard older guys say clay balls didn't skid, and they never "lost" the cue ball on the old Mali cloth.....hmmmm

Gerry
 
Steve Lipsky said:
Hey Willie... agreed on all counts, except sometimes you might make things worse by playing even the easiest of combos. So sometimes it's worth it to go a little out of your way to avoid even the hanging combinations, because it might mess with the position.

Willie, we should play sometime... you can teach me how to spot those dead ones. :)

- Steve
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Steve,
You bring up good points; risk minimization is the paramount "rule" of straight pool. I'm sure we could all agree on 5 or 10 "rules" of straight pool, then we would agree that they ALL must be violated with some frequency during a match. Learning when to violate them (the rules, not the waitresses; get your mind out of the guttter) is what makes it such a fascinating game.

Though I doubt I could show you anything (except new and exotic ways to scratch perhaps); I would love to play. I will unfortunately not be able to attend the "World Straight Pool" event in NYC; but I will definitely look you up if I ever make it to NYC for pool (my wife is quite reluctant to let me play any pool on vacations). And if you are ever in Indy, remember food/lodging/pool is always free at Betmore's Hotel, Delicatessen, and Pool Hall.

On an unrelated note, I and a friend are thinking of making a road trip for spectating at the New Jersey Straight Pool Championship this year (if it is still being held). I don't know when it is scheduled, but are you planning on playing?? If so, we may come and root for you.
 
StraightPoolIU said:
Willie isn't lying when he says it's his house rule to give anyone grief who passes up that kind of shot, but with my foolhardy and reckless style of straight pool it was never a problem :) A good host always encourages learning of the game even if it is through good natured ribbing :)
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SPIU,
You are too hard on yourself. Heck, I would have to improve significantly just to be considered foolhardy and reckless.

We've had some re-modeling of Betmore's Basement since you guys visited. I enjoyed the pool, I hope you guys can make it back to Indy for a re-match (of course the ribbing never stops, but you'll learn to tune it out in time; or we can just turn up the music if you can't "take the heat").
 
Williebetmore said:
P.S. - I once harangued a former #1 in the world player for passing up a pack shot in Betmore's Basement. That player then played a 9 foot, radical cut with heavy inside English to get position for the pack shot again (despite several easy hangers elsewhere on the table), made the pack shot, and ran 65 and out on me to win 150-138. I SHOULD HAVE KEPT MY MOUTH SHUT.
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Well, if nobody else is asking, I will:

Who was it? You seem to be avoiding naming names, but I don't see why you wouldn't, since what you're saying is clearly positive and complimentary.

-Andrew
 
Andrew Manning said:
Well, if nobody else is asking, I will:

Who was it? You seem to be avoiding naming names, but I don't see why you wouldn't, since what you're saying is clearly positive and complimentary.

-Andrew
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Mandrew,
I just don't want to be a "name-dropper" (just ask breakup:) ). It's not a huge secret (for anyone who has hung out on the forum the past 3 years, visited Betmore's Basement, or whom I've met at DCC or Peoria). However, I've always felt the forum is about the personal experiences of the members. The line between fan and internet/psycho/stalker/guy can be somewhat fine around here; I prefer to avoid all the negatives that go with mentioning players names (5 trolls are sure to respond negatively to the post within minutes). Buy me a beer (or shoot a spitwad at breakup) at DCC and I'll tell you all my stories.

As you will find if you join us at one of the tournaments, there are MANY more knowledgeable pool fanatics here than me, that rub shoulders with some of the best players in the world. I guess that's the beauty of having an abiding interest in a fringe sport.

P.S. - I DO mention the names of teachers whose work I wish to applaud and promote (unasked for, unpaid for ) - like Mark Wilson, Jerry Briesath, Danny DiLiberto, and Grady Mathews. A simple search of AZB will reveal my critiques of their outstanding pool instruction.

P.P.S. - If you do shoot a spitwad at breakup, I'll buy YOU the beer.
 
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Williebetmore said:
Mandrew,
I just don't want to be a "name-dropper" (just ask breakup:) ). It's not a huge secret (for anyone who has hung out on the forum the past 3 years, visited Betmore's Basement, or whom I've met at DCC or Peoria). However, I've always felt the forum is about the personal experiences of the members. The line between fan and internet/psycho/stalker/guy can be somewhat fine around here; I prefer to avoid all the negatives that go with mentioning players names (5 trolls are sure to respond negatively to the post within minutes). Buy me a beer (or shoot a spitwad at breakup) at DCC and I'll tell you all my stories.

As you will find if you join us at one of the tournaments, there are MANY more knowledgeable pool fanatics here than me, that rub shoulders with some of the best players in the world. I guess that's the beauty of having an abiding interest in a fringe sport.

P.S. - I DO mention the names of teachers whose work I wish to applaud and promote (unasked for, unpaid for ) - like Mark Wilson, Jerry Briesath, Danny DiLiberto, and Grady Mathews. A simple search of AZB will reveal my critiques of their outstanding pool instruction.

P.P.S. - If you do shoot a spitwad at breakup, I'll buy YOU the beer.
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Well, if I ever get around to making it to one of the tournaments/expos, I'll make sure to shoot a spitwad at breakup (I know what he looks like from his avatar), and ask the first guy who buys me a beer to tell a story or two.

-Andrew
 
Andrew Manning said:
Well, if I ever get around to making it to one of the tournaments/expos, I'll make sure to shoot a spitwad at breakup (I know what he looks like from his avatar), and ask the first guy who buys me a beer to tell a story or two.

-Andrew
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Man-man,
That may not work. If I don't see you do it, you may have a huge line of AZB'ers waiting to buy you beer - how much can you drink, anyway??? Haven't you ever heard of alcohol poisoning???
 
Williebetmore said:
Man-man,
That may not work. If I don't see you do it, you may have a huge line of AZB'ers waiting to buy you beer - how much can you drink, anyway??? Haven't you ever heard of alcohol poisoning???
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I still see this as win-win for me. Any beers purchased for me beyond what I can drink could be donated to whoever's lost the most money in action games at the event.

-Andrew
 
Apologies all around... over my last couple games, I've been paying attention to this. I was definitely low in my estimates.

I guess I was thinking of the shots that are fairly difficult; for that, my numbers were more reasonable. But according to the way the post was described, yeah, there's definitely more than I thought...

- Steve
 
careful what you wish for

Williebetmore said:
P.S. - I once harangued a former #1 in the world player for passing up a pack shot in Betmore's Basement. That player then played a 9 foot, radical cut with heavy inside English to get position for the pack shot again (despite several easy hangers elsewhere on the table), made the pack shot, and ran 65 and out on me to win 150-138. I SHOULD HAVE KEPT MY MOUTH SHUT.
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tap-tap. great story.

By the way, I shoot jam-up spitwad, studied it since grade school.
 
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