Correct. Everyone has a limit they reach and no amount of practice will change that. Its like the old argument that anyone who puts the time in, will play at a high level, when the truth is, they will reach their peak and stay there. I have known many players who play almost everyday and play at the same level now they did many years ago. We all have our limit in everything we do. Equality is impossible!
Now the John vs. Lou poll removed
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Correct. Everyone has a limit they reach and no amount of practice will change that. Its like the old argument that anyone who puts the time in, will play at a high level, when the truth is, they will reach their peak and stay there. I have known many players who play almost everyday and play at the same level now they did many years ago. We all have our limit in everything we do. Equality is impossible!
How many hours are they playing everyday?
What do they do when they play?
Do they truly have the ambition to improve, or are they content with their current level?
Have they have had any coaching?
Another important question is, how many times have they changed how they practice,or how they learn things?
No
There is a fundamental difference in being a pro and playing like one. We're [JB, myself, and a few others] are arguing in favor of playing like one.
It's not impossible if you put in the time and are dedicated. Like John has already said countless times, show us one person that has put in 10 hours a day for 5 or more years that can't PLAY at a pro level, and we'll side with you.
The fact is that no such person exists. The only, and I repeat only, natural abilities required to play this game well are
1. Good vision (glasses/contacts/lasik can fix that though).
2. Good long term memory.
3. Good hand/eye coordination.
Every single other thing can be improved upon with practice (stroke, ball pocketing, positional play) and competitive play (ability to perform under pressure).
You and him can keep saying it and wishing it were true but the rest of us who no better wont by a word of it ,, I know players who have played 8-10 hrs a day and never got any better ,, its nothing but fantasy to think that hard work is the only thing needed for talent
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Once again...
What were they doing while playing?
Did they have the ambition to be the best?
Putting the cart before the horse for 10 hours a day does no one any good. Hard work isn't the only thing needed, you're right. Intelligent application of effort, is. Learning to aim, stay straight, stroke the ball, all sorts of little features of pool can be learned, and easily. It requires a lot of effort to stay on them, though.
Um, black people do NOT dominate all sports that require athletic ability. But the ones that excel do it because they worked harder not because they are black.
Mass however makes class, so in basketball for example it is a sport that is played by more than 30 million people weekly. In some areas, particularly in urban settings it is highly competitive so the amateur player has to be good to be allowed to play in the best games with the best players.
Thus little kids exposed to this are learning moves by observation and emulation as soon as humanly possible. Those kids who develop a huge desire then to continue with basketball already have a really good foundation by the time they get to high school.
Since it's a fact that most blacks live in cities and the most hard core competition exists there it follows that out of this environment, often called a hotbed, that a lot of players would emerge who have the desire to work harder at the game. And of course the financial rewards are a huge motivator.
Why do the Philippines have such a large amount of great pool players? Is there a gene inherent to the Filipino DNA that makes them particularly suited to play pool at a high level? No, it's because the dynamic of their nation is such that playing pool is something that can be done cheaply and competitively and they LOVE to gamble at it. Couple that with having champions who are actual stars it's similar to the NBA stars influencing young aspiring basketball players.
When young players show desire to play pool in the Philippines they are nurtured and encouraged. They are shown how to play and given the best possible instruction. Then it's only a matter of how deep their desire is as to how far they will go. Thus champions are built not born.
The Phils are making some pretty hot basketball players now, too. It is a nation that encourages athletic pursuit among their youth, and it shows. I bet we see a Filipino all-star in the NBA in a decade.
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Agreed. If I spent a year learning under Jose Parica for four hours a day it would probably yield for greater results than a year spent doing ten hours a day on my own. That's the next ingredient that is often missing in these discussions which I mention but which is often glossed over by the "talent" side. Deep training is not merely a matter of putting in table time. It's putting in focused and structured time - that is structured BY someone else to build the skills needed. It is having qualified coaches who know what they are doing and how to tailor the coaching to the needs of the player.
I had this discussion with a champion the other day and he rattled off a few player's names who he adopted and turned into recognized champions. I don't know the extent of their relationships so I am not going to name names so as not to inadvertently upset him or the players he coached but the fact remains that champions breed champions and good coaching/mentoring pays huge dividends and throughout pool you can find relationships that prove it.
Sorry JB but again your wrong genetics play a role in athletics ,, if you think hard work can make some fat kid a world class sprinter you are delusional to say the least
You obviously didn't play many sports ,, I've played and coached some player just have skills others will never have god gave it to them no practice in the world can make everyone a world class athlete period
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Neanderthals had sex with humans.
One thing I have recently learned from 23andme is that the Neanderthals did not mix their genetic code with Africans, although it is definitely mixed with Europeans and Western Asia. I'm just getting into this and since the Neanderthals got whacked about 30,000 years ago, some of their supposed inferior genes got passed on to everyone except the bona fide Africans.
So maybe it is just the absence of certain genes that sometimes seems to allow black athletes to dominate some sports. When you get to reading about how the DNA code is composed and how the genes are passed on or not, it will make your head spin.
I've even read that some people are disappointed after learning that they have so little Neanderthal in their DNA code but I am certain there is still plenty evidence of the Neanderthal's gene code thriving right here in the Main Forum.
JoeyA
One thing I have recently learned from 23andme is that the Neanderthals did not mix their genetic code with Africans, although it is definitely mixed with Europeans and Western Asia. I'm just getting into this and since the Neanderthals got whacked about 30,000 years ago, some of their supposed inferior genes got passed on to everyone except the bona fide Africans.
So maybe it is just the absence of certain genes that sometimes seems to allow black athletes to dominate some sports. When you get to reading about how the DNA code is composed and how the genes are passed on or not, it will make your head spin.
I've even read that some people are disappointed after learning that they have so little Neanderthal in their DNA code but I am certain there is still plenty evidence of the Neanderthal's gene code thriving right here in the Main Forum.
JoeyA
You really, really need to read "Outliers" by Malcolm Gladwell.
It should open your closed mind tremedously.
Yeah I didn't play many sports. I was just a diver and a trampolinist. Working out in those sports for hours each day didn't give me any grounding in athletics.
You're absolutely right, we had many black kids come in off the street and immediately with no coaching or instruction they were better divers and tumblers than all the white kids. The poor latinos had no chance because everyone knows that they don't have the right genes to be naturally gifted or to learn anything....
Anyway, Mark, you hang on to that opinion. Meanwhile I will take the fat kid and put his ass on a diet, get him working out, and teach him how to run, then we will see how far he goes and how fast. One thing is certain, if he has the desire then he will go as far as humanly possible as a runner. Unless you were his dad because you would just shove more twinkies in his mouth and tell him he has no shot.
I think this is called "The Peter Principle" where everyone eventually reaches their own level of competence (or is it incompetence?). :thumbup:
Free? I'd have paid 99 cents for this! PLEASE John don't get mad at me
, I was only joking. :grin:
Hey, I saw him first! I was standing closest to the door! KNOCKERS! :thumbup:
Danny Diliberto is a damn good example of this. He was a great baseball player and possessed an arm that could rival any major leaguer. He also was a 200+ average bowler and could have easily turned pro, but instead decided to seek fame and fortune as a professional boxer, He became a contender early on, winning almost all of his fights by knockout. Only the fact that he hit so hard that he continually broke his hands stopped him from pursuing a title.
And then he went into pro pool seriously (he was already good) at age 24. The rest is history there! I have to believe that he possessed some inherent abilities that made him excel in sports a little more quickly and a lot more competently than most other people.
All that said, I do agree that someone less gifted could possibly catch up with Danny if they worked hard enough at their respective sport. I just didn't happen to be one of them. :smile:
Why and WHERE does "science" disagree with me. Please point me to that study! In books they call this giving "credit" which authors must do when referring to someone elses work. So I want to know where you got this information or are you just making it up?