OB Digicue video

nataddrho said:
What do the sensors measure? Acceleration, or force applied of the butt of the cue.

How precise are they? The accelerometer is an ADXL337 made by Analog Devices. Its an analog output 3-axis sensor set to 300 mV/g with a noise density of 300 ug per root hertz. The datasheet is available here: http://www.analog.com/media/en/technical-documentation/data-sheets/ADXL337.pdf

What does the software do with the measurements? The signals are digitally filtered and passed through a proprietary decision-making algorithm with internal thresholds and look-up tables. The three different user settings point to three different sets of thresholds.

When is a vibration triggered, specifically? The axial accelerometer signal (Z-axis) is passed through an analog band-pass filter centered at the resonant frequency of the Z-axis MEMS armature and then passed through an AM demodulator (simple rectifier) and then low-pass filtered into a pulse. The pulse is connected to a comparator with one input as a tapped voltage from a DAC (software controlled). When the pulse causes the comparator to flip, an interrupt is triggered.

What does the system use as the "reference line"? It uses a blend of Mean Absolute Deviation and a moving average output from the fusion algorithm.

How much deviation from the reference line is required to trigger a fault? The three user setting thresholds are based on coded outputs. I would have to take a look at the code to tell you exactly how many G's and for how long each setting trigger is set to, but I did have that written down in my notebook a while ago.

What happens on a shot with spin where the tip and shaft deflect off of the CB? Etc, etc. This is taken care of in the fusion algorithm and will be corrected for. Also, harmonic vibrations from the cue stick during spin shots is also filtered out.
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Thank you for taking the time to answer and your PM:)
 
cleary said:
Another shot I was asked about was the chip breaking apart. This was all done in 3d.

I tracked the shot to get the camera motion data. The little Xs represent what the software picked up as constant points to track. Each of those points has a value in space and it's able to tell how far the cue or digicue or the piece of chalk actually was from the camera when I shot it. I need this info to make things realistically look like they were part of the shot when I filmed it. This is how visual effects in the movies are made.

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The developer of the Digicue (nataddrho) was nice enough to supply me with the 3d cad models of each piece. Saved me a lot of time so I didn't have to break it apart and model it myself. So I took the pieces and animated it in 3d. Gave it a little spin and rendered it out at a somewhat realistic look.

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I then added it into the scene.The gray pieces behind it were a temporary place holder for my reference as I'm making it.

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Very cool stuff Cleary. You have mad skills.
 
shanesinnott said:
Great questions!

It will vibrate on a swoop stroke as a swoop stroke is fundamentally incorrect.

It will not vibrate when using BHE. The DigiCue measures "straightness" relative to the cue stick line, not the shot line. Therefore, if you apply back-hand-english to pivot the cue at an angle to the shot path, but stroke exactly in the direction that the cue stick is pointing, then DigiCue will not register this as a fault. This is important because many shots have spin applied to them. However, if you swoop or steer the cue to create English, then this is a fault.

Jab strokes are absolutely necessary in many cuesports. However, the device is programmed to vibrate when you jab stroke not because it is wrong to do it when necessary but it is wrong to do it on every shot (like many beginning players do).

If you are jacked up and you follow through in a straight line, it should not vibrate.

Hope this helps.
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Thank you for the reply.
My only thoughts are that on some jab strokes and jacked up shots, the natural thing to do is lift the cue up so you don't drive it into the bed of the table.
On that note, what happens if you do drive it into the bed of the table and the cue shaft or the whole cue changes direction? (extreme example of what I'm talking about would be to watch Mike Sigel break in 9ball and how he bends his shaft like a banana), when stroking straight is no longer physically possible because you can't stroke through the slate?

TIA
 
SUPERSTAR said:
Thank you for the reply.
My only thoughts are that on some jab strokes and jacked up shots, the natural thing to do is lift the cue up so you don't drive it into the bed of the table.
On that note, what happens if you do drive it into the bed of the table and the cue shaft or the whole cue changes direction? (extreme example of what I'm talking about would be to watch Mike Sigel break in 9ball and how he bends his shaft like a banana), when stroking straight is no longer physically possible because you can't stroke through the slate?

TIA
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There will always be certain specialty shots that come up like you described that may cause the DigiCue to vibrate when you did nothing wrong (or you intentionally did a jab stroke because that was the shot that was required).

However, the VAST majority of shots in pool accommodate and really require you to keep your head and body still and follow through the ball in a straight line. This is what the DigiCue is designed to help you perfect. Improve your fundamentals which will also improve your ability to pull off those specialty shots when they come up.
 
shanesinnott said:
There will always be certain specialty shots that come up like you described that may cause the DigiCue to vibrate when you did nothing wrong (or you intentionally did a jab stroke because that was the shot that was required).

However, the VAST majority of shots in pool accommodate and really require you to keep your head and body still and follow through the ball in a straight line. This is what the DigiCue is designed to help you perfect. Improve your fundamentals which will also improve your ability to pull off those specialty shots when they come up.
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Thanks for the reply.
Only other thing is, how strong is the vibration, and can you fine tune the strength?
I only ask because i know some people who are extra sensitive to vibrating things. Like when they are using some type of drill or saw, or driving at that certain highway speed that causes the steering wheel to vibrate a little.
They get all whacked out because of it and complain about tingling, and pain in their fingers/hand/wrist/elbow.
Obviously, the better your stroke, the less vibrating you have to deal with, but maybe there could be an alternative such as a beep.

I can just see it now.
Someone complaining that their fingers are falling off and have permanent nerve damage because of the product hurting them.
All the good intentions with your product aside, these ARE pool players we are talking about.

Just a thought
 
Maybe the best approach is just let this product come to the market and obviously, it may not be suited for everyone.
A lot of the posts basically put the cart before the horse & in case you hadn't noticed, the horse is about to arrive shortly.
 
Kimmo H. said:
Cleary, you really seem to know your way with this kind of things :eek: Outstanding work, there is nothing else I can say. Thank you for for the Behind the scenes also. Its really nice to get to see just what it takes to make a film like this (along with the years of experience you clearly have) :smile:
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I second what Kimmo said, he said it very well and I agree 100%!!!!! I will add that that sure is some nice equipment you have. Do you mind if I ask your profession?
 
fastone371 said:
I second what Kimmo said, he said it very well and I agree 100%!!!!! I will add that that sure is some nice equipment you have. Do you mind if I ask your profession?
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Thank you both for the kind words.

This type of work is what I do for a living. Design, animation, direction, visual effects, shooting... I've worn a lot of hats over the course of my career. Lately though I've been doing more creative directing rather than actually making stuff, so this project was fun.
 
SUPERSTAR said:
Thank you for the reply.
My only thoughts are that on some jab strokes and jacked up shots, the natural thing to do is lift the cue up so you don't drive it into the bed of the table.
On that note, what happens if you do drive it into the bed of the table and the cue shaft or the whole cue changes direction? (extreme example of what I'm talking about would be to watch Mike Sigel break in 9ball and how he bends his shaft like a banana), when stroking straight is no longer physically possible because you can't stroke through the slate?

TIA
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So it's gonna vibrate on swoop strokes, it's gonna vibrate when using BHE...

My definition of Back-Hand-English is pivoting the pool cue at an angle so that the pool cue is no longer parallel with the shot line. Front-Hand-English is moving your bridge hand a little to the left or right. Both are done to apply spin and compensate for squirt. It is also how I play. These should both be done before the final stroke, not during the final stroke. If your cue follows through along its own axial line then the DigiCue will not vibrate. If you apply BHE and/or FHE during the forward motion (or what I call "steering" and you call "swoop"), then your cue will not follow a straight axial line and DigiCue will vibrate.

...and jab strokes apparently have no place in pool...cept for when you need to make a shot in tight quarters and not hit every ball in front of you. What about when you are jacked up? is that going to register as a popping up on a shot?

Oh yes they do. Sometimes you have to jab at a ball, or move the cue out of the way because the balls are coming back at you, or feather a ball because its frozen, or punch out an opponents ball from his pocket, or do something else necessary to win. But you are AWARE that what you are doing is unconventional. DigiCue wants to make you aware of what you are doing... so if you know you're probably going to get a vibration, just ignore it for that shot. The benefit of corrective feedback from conventional shots outweighs the number of times you play unconventional shots.

How strong is the vibration, and can you fine tune the strength?

I played with this, The C1030Q002F vibrational motor used in the DigiCue is the exact same motor used in the LG G4 smart phone. This is good news, because the engineers that designed the motor and recommended drive voltage performed their own ergonomic tests and customer feedback trials. We can be pretty confident that if they put these in a hugely mass produced consumer product that the amount of vibration is optimized for comfortable alert.
 
Great Video... I may have to get off my hip & get one of these training things...
 
SUPERSTAR said:
I can just see it now.
Someone complaining that their fingers are falling off and have permanent nerve damage because of the product hurting them.
All the good intentions with your product aside, these ARE pool players we are talking about.

Just a thought
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:confused: Right, I have a stroke every time the buzzer in my phone goes off. :rolleyes:
 
SUPERSTAR said:
Thanks for the reply.
Only other thing is, how strong is the vibration, and can you fine tune the strength?
I only ask because i know some people who are extra sensitive to vibrating things. Like when they are using some type of drill or saw, or driving at that certain highway speed that causes the steering wheel to vibrate a little.
They get all whacked out because of it and complain about tingling, and pain in their fingers/hand/wrist/elbow.
Obviously, the better your stroke, the less vibrating you have to deal with, but maybe there could be an alternative such as a beep.

I can just see it now.
Someone complaining that their fingers are falling off and have permanent nerve damage because of the product hurting them.
All the good intentions with your product aside, these ARE pool players we are talking about.

Just a thought
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The vibration is very subtle. It won't be causing anyone problems. Your request for different strength vibration makes me question what you'll be using this for. ;)
 
cleary said:
The vibration is very subtle. It won't be causing anyone problems. Your request for different strength vibration makes me question what you'll be using this for. ;)
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Well, if you're going to beat someone so bad, they might as well enjoy it;)
 
Not to knock the product at all, but i can see a whole new phenomena developing as a result of it.

Phantom stroke buzz.

Same way you get that phantom phone vibration in your leg when your phone isn't even ringing.

You'll have people thinking their cue is buzzing, even when the device isn't on it.
LOL
 
SUPERSTAR said:
Not to knock the product at all, but i can see a whole new phenomena developing as a result of it.

Phantom stroke buzz.

Same way you get that phantom phone vibration in your leg when your phone isn't even ringing.

You'll have people thinking their cue is buzzing, even when the device isn't on it.
LOL
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If it's buzzing that much for someone, they got bigger problems than the buzzing
 
cleary said:
It just vibrates. I hope they eventually make an app so I can track data and see patterns of what I'm doing wrong.
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With the present design, the Digicue would have no information about what kind of shot you just attempted or successfully executed. In order for an app to show patterns, it seems like you would need to input information (into the app) about the next or previous shot.

Then there would be enough data to show that you, for example. shot an xyz type of shot 50 times and caused the Digicue to buzz 15 times. Then to reduce the amount of data entry, you should also be able to tell the app that you are going to shoot xyz shots until you notify it otherwise.
 
Saturated Fats said:
With the present design, the Digicue would have no information about what kind of shot you just attempted or successfully executed. In order for an app to show patterns, it seems like you would need to input information (into the app) about the next or previous shot.

Then there would be enough data to show that you, for example. shot an xyz type of shot 50 times and caused the Digicue to buzz 15 times. Then to reduce the amount of data entry, you should also be able to tell the app that you are going to shoot xyz shots until you notify it otherwise.
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I think a potential strength of this product is for shooting various spin shots, to see if the stroke deviates. We have the perfectly straight stop shot drill to test the stroke on straight in shots. But I think a player's stroke might break down on certain shots, even if they execute the stop shot drill well.

To build on what you wrote, and to make data entry easier still, the app could have a drill of various shots, all marked on pictures in the app. You shoot each shot in the picture, and the app automatically knows which data goes with which picture. It can grow from there.

Maybe generation 2 of this product will have a data collection app. The competitor product does have a data collection app, but you have to keep track of the shots yourself, making tracking certain shots less automatic than the scenario I described.
 
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