Bob Grimshaw
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When counting the number of inlays on a cue, do all pieces count or just the ivory?
# of inlays
- Thread starter Bob Grimshaw
- Start date
All of them
Are You Suggesting.....
When you say all of them, are you saying to count every stitch in a maple stitch ring collar, or dashes in any collar rings in the cue butt sleeve and cue forearm collar design? I know veneers & windows etc. count, as well as actual inlays regardless of the material. To me, that suggests there's a need for additional level cue ratings since level 5 (26-50 inlays) would be easily reached when you include the minutia design.
As an example, my Scruggs cue has 36 actual inlays (ivory & abalone) and there's also 4 double silver ringed stitched collars.....1 collar below the flat faced ivory joint, 1 above the cortland linen wrap, 1 below the wrap in the ebony butt sleeve and one at the bottom of the ebony butt sleeve just above the ivory butt cap. There's 15 stitches in each collar bordered by two silver rings. My cue is actually a level 5 cue......nothing more and nothing less.
Don't get me wrong, I'd love to think it's a level 7 cue (76-101 inlays) but it isn't, that is unless I count the eight silver rings bordering the 15 stitches (60 total) in each of these collars on my cue. When I do that, my cue has 36 ivory/abalone inlays + 68 collar inlays for a toal of 104 inlays. That's not the actual case.....you do not count everything as inlays....this is all clearly explained and spelled out in the Blue Book of Cues, 3rd Edition, Pg. 13 entitled "Tracking Your Cue Through The Book".
When you start to count everything, you can reach a level 8 (126 or more inlays) cue rating in no time.......My Mottey cue has 58 ivory inlays and realistically, it's worth a heck of a lot more than my Scruggs cue is valued at. If you want to learn about what's an inlay, contact a reputable cue dealer like BilL G. at Cornerstone Cues and he'll set you straight or Sean B. at Cue Addicts. "Do not solely rely" on posts on AZ because a lot of people here think they know something when in fact is all they know is what they've been told by others and never confirmed on their own. The same applies to me.......don't take my opinion as Gospel either.......I learned by actually buying and selling collectible cues.......attending cue shows.........meeting and speaking with real cue-makers.......acquiring assorted books and reading material about cues.
The best start is to read any of the three (3) editions of the Blue Book of Cues and or just study the introductory foreward to educate/familarize yourself firsthand.
Matt B.
When you say all of them, are you saying to count every stitch in a maple stitch ring collar, or dashes in any collar rings in the cue butt sleeve and cue forearm collar design? I know veneers & windows etc. count, as well as actual inlays regardless of the material. To me, that suggests there's a need for additional level cue ratings since level 5 (26-50 inlays) would be easily reached when you include the minutia design.
As an example, my Scruggs cue has 36 actual inlays (ivory & abalone) and there's also 4 double silver ringed stitched collars.....1 collar below the flat faced ivory joint, 1 above the cortland linen wrap, 1 below the wrap in the ebony butt sleeve and one at the bottom of the ebony butt sleeve just above the ivory butt cap. There's 15 stitches in each collar bordered by two silver rings. My cue is actually a level 5 cue......nothing more and nothing less.
Don't get me wrong, I'd love to think it's a level 7 cue (76-101 inlays) but it isn't, that is unless I count the eight silver rings bordering the 15 stitches (60 total) in each of these collars on my cue. When I do that, my cue has 36 ivory/abalone inlays + 68 collar inlays for a toal of 104 inlays. That's not the actual case.....you do not count everything as inlays....this is all clearly explained and spelled out in the Blue Book of Cues, 3rd Edition, Pg. 13 entitled "Tracking Your Cue Through The Book".
When you start to count everything, you can reach a level 8 (126 or more inlays) cue rating in no time.......My Mottey cue has 58 ivory inlays and realistically, it's worth a heck of a lot more than my Scruggs cue is valued at. If you want to learn about what's an inlay, contact a reputable cue dealer like BilL G. at Cornerstone Cues and he'll set you straight or Sean B. at Cue Addicts. "Do not solely rely" on posts on AZ because a lot of people here think they know something when in fact is all they know is what they've been told by others and never confirmed on their own. The same applies to me.......don't take my opinion as Gospel either.......I learned by actually buying and selling collectible cues.......attending cue shows.........meeting and speaking with real cue-makers.......acquiring assorted books and reading material about cues.
The best start is to read any of the three (3) editions of the Blue Book of Cues and or just study the introductory foreward to educate/familarize yourself firsthand.
Matt B.
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You're assuming that all inlays are ivory for some reason. Many are not. Or are you thinking that unless it's ivory, it's not an inlay?
Pretty simple, or should be.
Inlays are parts inlayed into the cue. Cut part, cut pocket, inlay part.
Rings, joints, butt caps, ferules etc are not inlayed, they are installed assemblies although it possible for them to include inlays.
Floating points are typically inlayed, spliced are not (veneers included).
That kinda thing.
Inlays are parts inlayed into the cue. Cut part, cut pocket, inlay part.
Rings, joints, butt caps, ferules etc are not inlayed, they are installed assemblies although it possible for them to include inlays.
Floating points are typically inlayed, spliced are not (veneers included).
That kinda thing.
Stitch or box type rings don't technically count as inlays.....unless they are comprised of individually inlaid pieces, which sometimes they are, but not usually.
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No, I wasnt trying to suggest that. I think along the same lines as you. I normally do not view the rings as inlays.
Ivory? Approved legally? If the ivory making the cue more beautiful and fine for shots. I am sure not the hippo ivories.
Anyways people do use ivory of many animals and mammals like whale, etc. But one must assure of the legal aspect too.
Anyways people do use ivory of many animals and mammals like whale, etc. But one must assure of the legal aspect too.
Here's a few images to visually describe what I was just saying....hope this helps.
First one shows ivory and pink ivory stitch type rings on a Gilbert cue. These are not true inlays, as they were slab cut off a billet of material and then assembled, sandwiched together in with the other ring materials (often called a "ring pack").
Second one shows the butt rings on one of the ivory joint Schon CP tribute cues. Seen here: http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=303973 The ivory stitches that make up these rings are in fact inlays, as you can tell from the image. The ivory dashes are each separately inlaid right into the ebony, you can see the wood grain all around where the inlays fit into the butt sleeve. Not the greatest pic, but you should be able to tell.
First one shows ivory and pink ivory stitch type rings on a Gilbert cue. These are not true inlays, as they were slab cut off a billet of material and then assembled, sandwiched together in with the other ring materials (often called a "ring pack").
Second one shows the butt rings on one of the ivory joint Schon CP tribute cues. Seen here: http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=303973 The ivory stitches that make up these rings are in fact inlays, as you can tell from the image. The ivory dashes are each separately inlaid right into the ebony, you can see the wood grain all around where the inlays fit into the butt sleeve. Not the greatest pic, but you should be able to tell.
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Thanks For The Photos - Cue Addicts
RRfireside mentioned that rings do not count and I agree with him. But collars can count quite heavily....Szamboti ivory collars or how about Ed Prewitt's really exquiste, fancy collarwork.
The photos offerred by Cue Addicts should help to clarify things. Inlays do not have to be ivory, MOP, abalone, precious stones etc. If you look closely at some of Ernie G.'s or Tad Kohara's cue butt sleeves, there some fancy inlays that are mostly achieved with wood veneers, windows, etc.....all of which count as inlays......IMO (I don't want to come across as a know it all). I defer to opinions from the professionals like Cue Addicts, Cornerstone Cues, Superior Cues, Recollection Cues etc.
RRfireside mentioned that rings do not count and I agree with him. But collars can count quite heavily....Szamboti ivory collars or how about Ed Prewitt's really exquiste, fancy collarwork.
The photos offerred by Cue Addicts should help to clarify things. Inlays do not have to be ivory, MOP, abalone, precious stones etc. If you look closely at some of Ernie G.'s or Tad Kohara's cue butt sleeves, there some fancy inlays that are mostly achieved with wood veneers, windows, etc.....all of which count as inlays......IMO (I don't want to come across as a know it all). I defer to opinions from the professionals like Cue Addicts, Cornerstone Cues, Superior Cues, Recollection Cues etc.
Numbers of inlays is like the number of points. In my own little world points are points and veneers are veneers. The veneer next to a point is not a point in itself just a sharpened veneer no more and no less. Ringwork is like that as well they are assembled outside the cue and then installed but not inlaid into the cue as an inlay is. I see instances all the time where folks want others to think a cue has this many of this and that in what I perceive as an attempt to make a cue seem more special than I think it is.. Just my humble opinion...
Veneers and RECUT points are different. I don't think anyone counts veneers are points, but a recut point with several recuts would look like a veneer.
Sean,
How is the pink ivory and ivory put into the billet? I bring this up because technically they most certainly are inlays. Because that material by definition is inlaid into the rings.
I think for clarity the industry hasn't been counting them as such. Also by definition the veneers of points are also inlays. I think that is where people get confused. You, me, people who are in the industry, we simplify ring assemblies and veneer points and are so familiar with them, we forget that in actuality they are inlays.
People that want to really embellish a prduct or cuemaker, start counting everything as inlays, or points and come up with numbers over 200/300+ they don't realize that they may be the only person who see's it like that.
JV
How is the pink ivory and ivory put into the billet? I bring this up because technically they most certainly are inlays. Because that material by definition is inlaid into the rings.
I think for clarity the industry hasn't been counting them as such. Also by definition the veneers of points are also inlays. I think that is where people get confused. You, me, people who are in the industry, we simplify ring assemblies and veneer points and are so familiar with them, we forget that in actuality they are inlays.
People that want to really embellish a prduct or cuemaker, start counting everything as inlays, or points and come up with numbers over 200/300+ they don't realize that they may be the only person who see's it like that.
JV
Inlays into the billet, they are. Inlays into the cue, they are not.
You are right, the BB classification system that was developed and is commonly referred to, with respect to number of inlays, excludes points & veneers and assembled rings like the stitch ring.
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