OH MY YOU GUYS MIGHT BE RIGHT Predator product specialist 11.8 HIGHEST DEFLECTION..

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mcc23

Member
asked about how the 11.8 compared to the 12.4 and 12.9 deflection just out of curiousity AGAIN to see the responce possibly from Kim . ( screenshot of email attachment below). GARZCAR SORRY I DOUBTED WHAT YOU SAID
Dear xx

Thank you for contacting us.

The 11.8 will have the most deflection, becuase it is the thinnest shaft. The front end mass is a significant part of the technology, but the taper and diameter of each shaft, affects deflection as well.

Sincerely,
Kim Newsome
 

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mcc23 said:
asked about how the 11.8 compared to the 12.4 and 12.9 deflection just out of curiousity AGAIN to see the responce possibly from Kim . ( screenshot of email attachment below). GARZCAR SORRY I DOUBTED WHAT YOU SAID
Dear xx

Thank you for contacting us.

The 11.8 will have the most deflection, becuase it is the thinnest shaft. The front end mass is a significant part of the technology, but the taper and diameter of each shaft, affects deflection as well.

Sincerely,
Kim Newsome
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no 'might' about it, she's dead wrong. no need to apologize. she has no clue what actually causes deflection or how lo-def shafts work. what's sad is she acts like she doesn't want to know. she has some very mis-informed ideas that she is unwilling to bend from.
 
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garczar said:
no 'might' about it, she's dead wrong. no need to apologize. she has no clue what actually causes deflection or how lo-def shafts work. what's sad is she acts like she doesn't want to know. she has some very mis-informed ideas that she is unwilling to bend from.
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Well, I'm not sure what she said. "Deflection" on its own is meaningless. There is cue ball deflection and shaft deflection. If she meant "the shaft of that stick is deflected more because it is lighter," then she is right and the cue ball is deflected less.

That's why it's better to talk about how much squirt a shaft has but that seems to have fallen out of style.
 
Bob Jewett said:
Well, I'm not sure what she said. "Deflection" on its own is meaningless. There is cue ball deflection and shaft deflection. If she meant "the shaft of that stick is deflected more because it is lighter," then she is right and the cue ball is deflected less.

That's why it's better to talk about how much squirt a shaft has but that seems to have fallen out of style.
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not what she said. she believes that bigger diameter shafts cause less squirt because as she put it "you hit more cb". also said that smaller shafts cause more squirt because you can hit further out from center causing more squirt. i talked to her, i know exactly what she said.
 
garczar said:
not what she said. she believes that bigger diameter shafts cause less squirt because as she put it "you hit more cb". also said that smaller shafts cause more squirt because you can hit further out from center causing more squirt. i talked to her, i know exactly what she said.
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I was going by the quote I saw above which has the ambiguity.
 
I’m 99% sure there is a video out from Predator a few years back, where the main designer of the shafts for 30 years himself was on it. NOT a marketing person. He had said the 12.9 was less “cb squirt” than the 12.4. This video was probably before the 11.8 was released.
 
iusedtoberich said:
I’m 99% sure there is a video out from Predator a few years back, where the main designer of the shafts for 30 years himself was on it. NOT a marketing person. He had said the 12.9 was less “cb squirt” than the 12.4. This video was probably before the 11.8 was released.
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this is possible. the 12.9 might have thinner walls near tip thus less end-mass. the 11.8 definitely has lowest squirt of the three. k newsome believes that smaller shafts squirt more because you can go farther from center. i tried to bring up how end-mass works and she got all defensive.
 
Does it really matter all that much? Are pros lying awake all night wondering about deflection, or throw? Or is it just you guys? :censored::ROFLMAO: pretty sure they just adapt to the cue they play with? Then anything they have to say about it will be to sell you guys a few more cues...
 
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iusedtoberich said:
I’m 99% sure there is a video out from Predator a few years back, where the main designer of the shafts for 30 years himself was on it. NOT a marketing person. He had said the 12.9 was less “cb squirt” than the 12.4. This video was probably before the 11.8 was released.
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Maybe this video? I haven't watched it yet/again.
 
Flakeandrun said:
... pretty sure they just adept to the cue they play with? ...
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I believe at least one top player has been unable to adapt to his sponsor's equipment and has gone back to an older model.

I think "just adapt" is ignoring the fact that how much the aim changes is different on every kind of side spin shot. Unless you have some way of connecting the aiming compensation between all those shots, you have a lot of shots to relearn. And no, backhand english is not a complete solution.
 
Bob Jewett said:
Well, I'm not sure what she said. "Deflection" on its own is meaningless. There is cue ball deflection and shaft deflection. If she meant "the shaft of that stick is deflected more because it is lighter," then she is right and the cue ball is deflected less.

That's why it's better to talk about how much squirt a shaft has but that seems to have fallen out of style.
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Yeah, when I hear the term "deflection", I think of something ostensibly rigid bending slightly, like a column or beam. I guess deflection is also used when the path is altered but can a stationary cue ball be considered to have a path? If so, then any movement would be deflection, regardless of squirt.
 
tomatoshooter said:
Yeah, when I hear the term "deflection", I think of something ostensibly rigid bending slightly, like a column or beam. I guess deflection is also used when the path is altered but can a stationary cue ball be considered to have a path? If so, then any movement would be deflection, regardless of squirt.
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More confusion arises when people use the term "cue ball deflection" to mean the angle the cue ball takes off the object ball, such as in the 30- and 90-degree rules. Yes, there are people who use the term that way.
 
Bob Jewett said:
More confusion arises when people use the term "cue ball deflection" to mean the angle the cue ball takes off the object ball, such as in the 30- and 90-degree rules. Yes, there are people who use the term that way.
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But that seems like a perfect way to describe what's happening!
 
tomatoshooter said:
But that seems like a perfect way to describe what's happening!
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Yes, but not if a lot of people are using the term some other way. There are lots of other examples of ambiguous words in pool vocabulary including "throw" and "kick" which have radically different meanings in different communities. Even the word "english" is problematic as some take it to mean any kind of spin on the ball and others limit it to side spin.
 
Bob Jewett said:
I believe at least one top player has been unable to adapt to his sponsor's equipment and has gone back to an older model.

I think "just adapt" is ignoring the fact that how much the aim changes is different on every kind of side spin shot. Unless you have some way of connecting the aiming compensation between all those shots, you have a lot of shots to relearn. And no, backhand english is not a complete solution.
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I agree with you, there probably are many top flight players who have altered their equipment or tried something new only to dislike it. We all have some element of preference, but is the decision making specifically relating to deflection? or is it feel? or is it placebo/mental?

I know in many cases, that sponsored players (in many sports, and pool is no exception) will have custom, or specific elements tailored to suit, or even their own older personal equipment just 'stickered up' to suit whichever logo signs their cheques. I do think that different equipment does alter many things, but is it really too much for these top-flight players who are playing many hours a day to overcome?

Bob Jewett said:
Yes, but not if a lot of people are using the term some other way. There are lots of other examples in pool vocabulary including "throw" and "kick" which have radically different meanings in different communities. Even the word "english" is problematic as some take it to mean any kind of spin on the ball and others limit it to side spin.
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Don't get me started on 'backhand English' :ROFLMAO: - not the wording, simply the actual action itself... I've had very long conversations about 'back/front hand English' with snooker pros/coaches, Chinese-8 pros/coaches and several American table players. Most of the coaches, or better players are not imparting this. They are lining up shots which impart spin prior to cueing down, and understanding the level of deflection from their cue.

As for wording, I am not fussed if you call it spin, action or English.

Kick is a funny one that took me a while to get used to... To me, that was always a bad contact between CB and OB. 'Squirt' makes me feel uneasy to say (a bit like how mother refrains from using the word 'moist' :ROFLMAO:). I'll keep calling it 'throw'

tomatoshooter said:
But that seems like a perfect way to describe what's happening!
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Interesting your brain goes there, and I can see why. I can't think of a more suitable term than 'deflection' to describe what happens during ball to ball impact - carom or slide are the only other words I would use... and they apply in slightly differing contexts to me.
I've only ever understood the term 'deflection' to relate to how the cue and cueball interact. How the ball deviates from the line of intended travel.
 
Billiards is the tower of babel, lots of talking and lots of misunderstanding.
The academic discussion on language is interesting.

Predator provides great opportunities for the billiard community.
I love having different deflection cues for when my guests are enjoying the table.
 
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