Ohio Open, US PRO SERIES

markjames

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
sjm’s post reminds me of derek jeter- saying the right things in the right way and not being positive or negetive.

my inner old man says, get off my lawn!

my inner young man says, go for it why not maybe it will work!

(look at the atrocities baseball uses post covid- automatic runner on second base for tenth inning and seven inning doubleheaders)

if i was asked to vote i’d say no,
it’s silly. but you want to keep tweaking things great go ahead earl was mentioning placement pool last year
 

Gatz

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
There’s so many other tournaments doing it the “traditional” way or “normal” way. I like how CSI runs their pro tournaments with amateur tournaments. Aslong as it’s getting good turnouts, making CSI money, I don’t really see an issue with the format. I don’t mind something different, I still watch it and I’d play in it.
 

jay helfert

Shoot Pool, not people
Gold Member
Silver Member
All I've defended is that it isn't horrible about picking winners, and that I find it hard to fault somebody for trying something new when the old has substantial history of not working well. Anybody that can read into that that I think this format is the greatest thing since sliced bread is beyond clueless, I just don't happen to like clear falsehoods and idiocy (that this was like races to 4 and horrible at picking winners) so I addressed it, would have happened regardless of tournament or topic. You may not have to be clueless by nature, but you sure have chosen to be in this case.
You've kind of worn out the term "clueless" in defending your position. I don't see any need for that because someone else thinks that "two out of three sets" should refer to three similar sets and not two sets that are actual Races to Four games and the last one is a self described "Shootout" of spot shots. That they aren't all the same is evident and the people, including me, are not clueless for pointing that out. Reading all your posts defending your position it appears that you are defending your ego as well by not being willing to concede that other people may be making a valid point, and just labeling them as being clueless for disagreeing with you. You made your point and we made ours. There is no one who is clueless here, except maybe the person using that term over and over again.

On another note, for many years all 9-Ball tournaments used the format of DE, all matches being a Race to Eleven. And it worked just fine! I went to, worked on and played in many tournaments where the arena was packed with standing room only crowds. Granted the compact arenas in hotel ballrooms and large billiard rooms might only have seating for a few hundred people, but the fact that the crowd loved what they were seeing was not lost on me. Move forward to today and we see the MC putting as many as 2,000 people in larger arenas to watch 9-Ball matches. Nearly thirty years ago I put on the Los Angeles Open 9-Ball tournament in a convention center that had room for well over a thousand seats and we filled it on Friday, Saturday and Sunday. So full that fire marshalls would not allow any more people to come in. Okay, I'm bragging here. :)

I tend to agree with Jaden in that the lack of interest in pro pool has more to do with the lack of prize money than anything else. Everyone (or at least every sports fan) likes to see someone win a million dollars, not 50K. People will watch a boring game like poker just because there is a chance that some amateur player will beat all the pros and win life changing money. Once we have a pro tour in place where the purses begin to exceed a million dollars (maybe 250K for first place) then you will see a lot more interest in the game. More young people will be picking up cues instead of baseballs, basketballs, golf clubs and tennis rackets. And there will be more new poolrooms opening as well.

All right, carry on.
 
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CaleAYS

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Well we have 3 Americans in the final 16. Poteet, Sossei, and Seaman.
Few names that didn’t make final stage include Yapp, Fortunski, Zielinski, Szolnoki, Grabe and Juszczyszyn.
 

Dead Money

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
I think if they are wedded to to the short set format.. replacing the "shoot out" with one more short race to 4 games would be more pleasing to the diehard pool fans than the tie breaker being used now.

The lack of interest of those outside of pool "fans" to watch has very little to do with the format of this specific event.
 

rexus31

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Well we have 3 Americans in the final 16. Poteet, Sossei, and Seaman.
Few names that didn’t make final stage include Yapp, Fortunski, Zielinski, Szolnoki, Grabe and Juszczyszyn.
Like I've been saying, the format caters to the weaker players and crafting upsets. This is the reason top level players don't want to play. That being said, as Jay pointed out, if first place was $250K, they'd be beating each other up to get in.
 

buckshotshoey

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Like I've been saying, the format caters to the weaker players and crafting upsets. This is the reason top level players don't want to play. That being said, as Jay pointed out, if first place was $250K, they'd be beating each other up to get in.
But, Tin Man said he was there. And he did not see any of what you describe. At least no more then any other tournament.
 

buckshotshoey

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Here is more proof of why the general public wont participate or watch pool. In the first 10 min of vid, there was mention of dangerous smoke filled pool halls, gambling, getting beat up in back alleys, pool sharks, outbreaks of temper, and shady characters.

I've said this many many times, and I'll say it 1000 more..... we need to dispose of this image. We need to start kids in junior high and high school and start them in the right direction.

 
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garczar

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Here is more proof of why the general public wont participate or watch pool. In the first 10 min of vid, there was mention of dangerous smoke filled pool halls, gambling, getting beat up in back alleys, pool sharks, and shady characters.

I've said this many many times, and I'll say it 1000 more..... we need to dispose of this image. We need to start kids in junior high and high school and start them in the right direction.

Hell, i started because of all that stuff. ;)
 

rexus31

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
But, Tin Man said he was there. And he did not see any of what you describe. At least no more then any other tournament.
Six of the top players are out. Let's have a look.

Oliver Szolnoki (785) lost to Devin Poteet (732)
Konrad Juszczyszyn (785) lost to Daniel Schneider (723)
Aloysius Yapp (821) lost to Mika Immonen (786)
Mieszko Fortunski (791) lost to Jeremy Seamen (758)
Denis Grabe (793) lost to Justin Martin (729)
Wiktor Zielinski (801) lost to Ruslan Chinakhov (796)

In each of these matches the higher rated player lost. IMO, the only match that was a toss up was the Zielinski/Chinakhov match as they are rated about even. Anything can happen in a short race, shootout format.
 

easy-e

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Six of the top players are out. Let's have a look.

Oliver Szolnoki (785) lost to Devin Poteet (732)
Konrad Juszczyszyn (785) lost to Daniel Schneider (723)
Aloysius Yapp (821) lost to Mika Immonen (786)
Mieszko Fortunski (791) lost to Jeremy Seamen (758)
Denis Grabe (793) lost to Justin Martin (729)
Wiktor Zielinski (801) lost to Ruslan Chinakhov (796)

In each of these matches the higher rated player lost. IMO, the only match that was a toss up was the Zielinski/Chinakhov match as they are rated about even. Anything can happen in a short race, shootout format.
None of those are massive upsets, those guys all run out so good. What’s wrong with underdogs winning some of the matches? I swear some people just want to have all the players lineup, and then hand out prize money based on Fargo ratings.
 

rexus31

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
None of those are massive upsets, those guys all run out so good. What’s wrong with underdogs winning some of the matches? I swear some people just want to have all the players lineup, and then hand out prize money based on Fargo ratings.
There is nothing wrong with it if that's what you're after and this format is clearly after that. Do you think Mika has a better shot of beating Yapp in this format or a Race to 11? I'd bet Yapp the favorite in a long race but in this format it's a crap shoot. This is why the top shelf players like Shane, Dennis and Shaw don't want to play. For any pro tour to be successful, you have to have the top players participating; that's who the fans want to see play. Yapp is the only Top 10 Fargo player playing.
 

buckshotshoey

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Six of the top players are out. Let's have a look.

Oliver Szolnoki (785) lost to Devin Poteet (732)
Konrad Juszczyszyn (785) lost to Daniel Schneider (723)
Aloysius Yapp (821) lost to Mika Immonen (786)
Mieszko Fortunski (791) lost to Jeremy Seamen (758)
Denis Grabe (793) lost to Justin Martin (729)
Wiktor Zielinski (801) lost to Ruslan Chinakhov (796)

In each of these matches the higher rated player lost. IMO, the only match that was a toss up was the Zielinski/Chinakhov match as they are rated about even. Anything can happen in a short race, shootout format.
Easy said it very well, so I don't have to repeat it. But I will say that I could find the same thing and every other pool tournament that has ever been played. What you're saying is let's just give the money to Shane Van boening and Josh filler every time they enter a tournament and be done with it.

Now, I no you really don't mean it that way. But all those ratings are pro and above. They all have that ability at any time.
 

rexus31

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Let's look at it from an odds standpoint using Fargo Rate's Match Odds Tool in a Race to 11.

Oliver Szolnoki (785) vs Devin Poteet (732); Poteet has a 19.8% chance of winning
Konrad Juszczyszyn (785) vs Daniel Schneider (723); Schneider has a 16% chance of winning
Aloysius Yapp (821) vs Mika Immonen (786); Immonen has a 28.7% chance of winning
Mieszko Fortunski (791) vs Jeremy Seamen (758); Seamen has a 29.8% chance of winning
Denis Grabe (793) vs Justin Martin (729); Martin has a 15.3% chance of wining
Wiktor Zielinski (801) vs Ruslan Chinakhov (796); Chinakhov has a 46.8% chance of winning

This proves the format favors the lessor players. Aside from Zielinski/Chinakhov who are evenly rated, the probability for an upset in a long race is at best 30% given these matchups.
 

rexus31

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Easy set up very well, so I don't have to repeat it. But I will say that I could find the same thing and every other pool tournament that has ever been played. What you're saying is let's just give the money to Shane Van boening and Josh filler every time they enter a tournament and be done with it.
Why don't we just split the money up evenly and give all the entrants participation trophies?
 

buckshotshoey

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Why don't we just split the money up evenly and give all the entrants participation trophies?
Or we could just let the pros play the game and let them earn it. Which is exactly what the winners did... They earned it. Just because they're Fargo rate is a little bit lower than another man's doesn't mean they should always lose, now does it?
 

rexus31

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Or we could just let the pros play the game and let them earn it. Which is exactly what the winners did... They earned it. Just because they're Fargo rate is a little bit lower than another man's doesn't mean they should always lose, now does it?
Great! Why can't they earn it in a traditional race like we've been doing for 50+ years vs. a watered down format whose full intent is to level the playing field to make it "fair". I suppose it's typical for today's society to want to make everything "fair".
 

buckshotshoey

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Great! Why can't they earn it in a traditional race like we've been doing for 50+ years vs. a watered down format whose full intent is to level the playing field to make it "fair". I suppose it's typical for today's society to want to make everything "fair".
And that sums it up folks. It goes against tradition. Step out of the 1900's into the new century. You are getting left behind.

I know that you won't understand this, but everything was perfectly Fair. Everybody that played agreed to the rules, and everybody played under the same rules. It was completely Fair.

You kind of sound like the kid that takes his ball home every time something doesn't go his way.
 
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