OK, all BS aside, which ferrule is the triple nuts?

Big C said:
I'll try a different approach. So, speaking as a player. A good player. I come to you, the cuemaker. A good cuemaker. I tell you that I want a ferrule that is efficient in terms of producing lots of spin when applying english, but doesn't deflect like a piece of steel. I almost always use the natural angle to get position for the next shot, but that's not always possible. If I have to manufacture the angle, I will use follow, then draw, then side spin as a last resort. If I have to use side spin, I don't want to have to aim differently to compensate for deflection. Which ferrule would you recommend?
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Side spin with out compensation is the holy grail of pool cues.
It's just as hard to find ... if it exists at all.

Since you dont have a Pro Stroke, I would recommend a PVC ferrule and possibly a ElkMaster tip as a start.
If that was to soft change the tip to a lePro, then a Triangle, then a layered medium.
If that was not the hit then change the ferrule to IvorX and start the tip process all over again.

Then there is always the OB-1 and Predator shafts to consider.
Hey ... its only money ...:thumbup:
 
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BigC...I think you are going to get as many different answers as there are ferrule types/materials. I believe that it can really depend upon the cue, as well.

I had ivory ferrules on a cue, and couldn't a darn thing with them...on that particular cue. The cue I have now, has micarta ferrules, and I absolutely love them. I have played with other cues from the same maker with different ferrules, and overall, the cues played very much the same....much as Eric stated.

I am also playing with an old Helmstetter full splice cue with a ferrule on it that I have no clue as to the material...could be plastic for all I know...but that particular cue plays amazingly well...go figure.

You need to just try out the different types and make a decision as to what YOU like, hit-wise. Just bear in mind, that what may work very well on one cue, may not work so well on another.

I like to think of a cue as the sum of it's parts, and the ferrule is but one part of the overall equation.

Lisa
 
pdcue said:
Herein lies the problem:

"I don't want to have to aim differently to compensate..."

IMHO - I am a better cuemaker than I am a player, but I can play 'a little'.
So, speaking as a player, this is not possible.

Moooochie started all this BS decades ago about 'zero deflection'.
the term now used is swerve.

You simply can not ever use sidespin and not adjust your aim.
Some shaft/ferrule combinations require less compensation than
others - but ALL require some amount of adjustment. Sorry...

HTH
Dale
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Well, I didn't just pick up a cue yesterday. I've been compensating for deflection since I was 5 years old. I just didn't know it then. I'm talking about fine tuning here, not changing the laws of physics. Why does one cuemaker prefer ivory and the other LBM and another Ivorine-X?
 
WilleeCue said:
I have a few shafts out here with NO ferrule ... just a tip and pad.
As long as they dont break with them I see no real problem and it would be very easy to add a ferrule later if problems did develop.
The players that have them say they are the nuts so that just reinforces that everyone has their own personal preferences as to how a cue should play.

Try one without a ferrule ... you might like it!
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I have tried it, long ago, and agree it's a very nice feel & play. That's one factor than drove my experimentation on ferrule install technique. Though my ferrules are 15/16" long, they play as close to having no ferrule as can be without actually going without a ferrule. I don't like the way a shaft looks with no ferrule, or even very short ferrules. And I don't trust the longevity of shafts with no ferrules. I see shafts crack below the ferrule over time, even had it happen once in one of my cues. Constant impact weighs heavy on shafts. I just don't trust no ferrule design when even ferruled shafts sometimes give out. It's like sex without a condom. Sure it's "best" but it's also only a matter of time before it comes back to haunt you. Just like condom technology is geared toward matching the quality of no condom but with protection, I think ferrule technology should be geared toward the natural feel & playability while still offering protection. Just my thoughts. Lord knows we all have our own minds:confused:
 
Ivor-X.

Big C said:
Well, I didn't just pick up a cue yesterday. I've been compensating for deflection since I was 5 years old. I just didn't know it then. I'm talking about fine tuning here, not changing the laws of physics. Why does one cuemaker prefer ivory and the other LBM and another Ivorine-X?
Click to expand...
If you are happy with the current tip you use, and money is no object, maybe you should have a couple of different shafts made using the tip you like on all of the shafts, but using different ferrules on each shaft. Put an LBM ferrule on one shaft, an Ivor-X ferrule on another shaft, and maybe do another shaft with micarta, or Juma, or whatever else floats your boat, and go from there. But remember, same tip on all of the shafts. Just a weird thought, but maybe worth a try, who knows. I have also hit with LBM ferrules, and they do hit nicely as well, they just aren't as chalk resistant as Ivor-X. I think you would like them if you tried them. I also agree with some of the other's who've commented, if its merely a matter of "deflection" that concerns you, the tip, shaft taper, cue joint, and any number of other factors contribute to the hit/deflection of any particular cue.
 
Best Ferrule

WilleeCue said:
ANY material that is no longer available will provide the best "hit" of all (think Yellow Micarta) and of course be the most expensive.
These rare materials will greatly improve your shooting skill with out any effort on your part.
I predict that LBM will become the most sought after and highly praised ferrule material in the coming years.

We need some testomony folks!
Any C player that became a B player just because he found the magic cue , tip, ferrule, or wrap, please step up and testify.
Click to expand...

I agree with WilleeCue in that the ferrule/tip that is the "nuts" is the ferrule/tip that YOU feel most comfortable with. I use the porper ferrule and I like it, but other people think I am crazy. They don't think that after I beat em out of some money or in a tournament however. You have to feel comfortable with your equipment and I agree that the "best stuff" is always the stuff that is the hardest to find IMHO.:rolleyes:
 
I think ferrule impact is over rated when compared to other factors like tip hardness and shaft quality/taper/etc. As mentioned , it's also my opinion that the method of install over rates the material used in most cases. I have Ivory on all the cues I have where Ivory "goes" with the cue. To me it's more af a traditional thing on a traditional cue.

I generally prefer a threaded capless ferrule where the tip is glued more or less , to the wood and the ferrule does all it was ever meant to do which is keep the shaft from splitting or mushrooming and allows the feel of the shaft itself to come thru un-muted.

That's just me feeling.
 
RRfireblade said:
I think ferrule impact is over rated when compared to other factors like tip hardness and shaft quality/taper/etc. As mentioned , it's also my opinion that the method of install over rates the material used in most cases. I have Ivory on all the cues I have where Ivory "goes" with the cue. To me it's more af a traditional thing on a traditional cue.

I generally prefer a threaded capless ferrule where the tip is glued more or less , to the wood and the ferrule does all it was ever meant to do which is keep the shaft from splitting or mushrooming and allows the feel of the shaft itself to come thru un-muted.

That's just me feeling.
Click to expand...

Me, too. But to each his own.
 
Big C said:
Well, I didn't just pick up a cue yesterday. I've been compensating for deflection since I was 5 years old. I just didn't know it then. I'm talking about fine tuning here, not changing the laws of physics. Why does one cuemaker prefer ivory and the other LBM and another Ivorine-X?
Click to expand...

Okay.... I guess when you said you didn't want to have to aim differently
to compensate, I got confussed and thought you ment you didn't
want to have to aim differently to compensate - Now I understand...

You said some very positive things about the 'old' Schon you played
with - seems to me the best advice would be to try a ferrule that is
as close to the Schon as you can find... certainly more practical
than randomly testing every ferrule/tip combonation known
to mankind - IMHO.

Also - FWIW - it may have been the Schon, not the ferrule.

Dale
 
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ehhhhh

WilleeCue said:
Chuck, you got way too much pocket money ... :thumbup:
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For Chuck's REAL job, he is a jeweler. And for his cue making, he builds a jewel of a cue .... I Forget what he sent me wrapped in jewelry advertising catalogs. :smile:
 
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qbilder said:
I have tried it, long ago, and agree it's a very nice feel & play. That's one factor than drove my experimentation on ferrule install technique. Though my ferrules are 15/16" long, they play as close to having no ferrule as can be without actually going without a ferrule. I don't like the way a shaft looks with no ferrule, or even very short ferrules. And I don't trust the longevity of shafts with no ferrules. I see shafts crack below the ferrule over time, even had it happen once in one of my cues. Constant impact weighs heavy on shafts. I just don't trust no ferrule design when even ferruled shafts sometimes give out. It's like sex without a condom. Sure it's "best" but it's also only a matter of time before it comes back to haunt you. Just like condom technology is geared toward matching the quality of no condom but with protection, I think ferrule technology should be geared toward the natural feel & playability while still offering protection. Just my thoughts. Lord knows we all have our own minds:confused:
Click to expand...
would it be safe to assume you use whatever ferrule you do use, as thin as you can cut it on the cap end?
 
Yes, pretty much. My goal is for the ferrule to add stability to the tip end of the shaft without altering the natural dynamics of the playability. This is done by using a lightweight material that is strong enough to be cut very thin with confidence it won't be damaged during impact. Very high quality LBM is so far the only stuff that has proven sufficient. Old school fiber ferrules work as well, but are not as available, and don't look as nice. I tried numerous other materials but most cracked after play & some just didn't feel natural. As in natural I mean as close to no ferrule as possible. I really liked Titan ferrules becasuse they were white, clean & felt just like no ferrule, but they cracked too easily.

The no ferrule is in my opinion the best feeling & playing way to build a shaft. However, it's something that's been tried in the past & for some reason ferrules still exist. I don't fully trust the longevity of ferruless shafts just yet, so i'm still using them. I'm just doing it as close to no ferrule as I possibly can without sacrifing durability.
 
interesting

In the past when I have had a choice have always opted for ivory 1" ferrules. Last cue I got I "turned loose" the builder and told him whatever worked best in his opinion just make it light and SKINNY. Wound up with the new melamine, a short ferrule, and I know its a combination of more than ferrule and tip but I love the results.
 
Ivory is good stuff, no doubt. And honestly, I can't say any material is the best. It all depends on the install technique & how well it all compliments the rest of the cue. I had an old Scruggs cue once that played jam up, and it had ivory ferrules. I built an ivory ferruled cue once that was one of my favorite players. But in general, the best cues I have built were equipped with melamine. Not saying it's the best, just seems to be for my cues.
 
RascalDoc said:
For Chuck's REAL job, he is a jeweler. And for his cue making, he builds a jewel of a cue .... I Forget what he sent me wrapped in jewelry adveritising catalogues. :smile:
Click to expand...

:grin: What do you think, Doc, is he trying to advertise to you in a subtle way?
I wonder how long it will be before he inlays some stones into his cues?
I have seen some with red colored stone (ruby?) and they were nice.
I would think oval opal inlays would look nice also ... depending on the design.
 
WilleeCue said:
:grin: What do you think, Doc, is he trying to advertise to you in a subtle way?
I wonder how long it will be before he inlays some stones into his cues?
I have seen some with red colored stone (ruby?) and they were nice.
I would think oval opal inlays would look nice also ... depending on the design.
Click to expand...
you might have a long wait. He builds pretty simple cues that focus on playability and the wood. I have ivory rings in the one I have and that's a rarity in what I have seen from him. Mostly all wood, to include the pin although I have seen a few regular metal pinned cues he has built.
 
what did you guys think about ivorine 4. i have heard it is the strongest ferulle material on the market. how did you rate it on deflection. less or much?
 
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