Okay Here's the Question......

[Black Cat 5791]

Okay here's the Question, I'm refereeing a Tournament Yesterday.

Player 1 Breaks, he Breaks Dry.

Player 2 Approaches surveys table layout has a difficult hit but possible, rather than making the legal hit and opening up the table. Player 2 proceeds to call safe, hit a non legal OB, nothing hits a rail, and leaves the legal OB tied up without any possible means of being contacted without a Bad Hit occurring.

So Because Player 2 Called Safe and not Push, Player 1 said that it was not legal. I concurred with Player 1, and awarded a BIH Foul to Player 1.

Player 2 proceeded to argue that calling safe and executing a push in that situation was the same thing.

I told him that a Safe is a Safe, and a Push is a Push, and that the correct call has to be made.

What do yo guy's think?

Mind you had we a accepted it as a Push he still wouldn't have had a possible shot had Player 1 simply passed it back. So in my mind he was playing a safe to begin with, trying to combine what was legal and not legal.

Black Cat?

 

[Scott Lee]

A push must be called...those are the rules...period! This person was obviously trying to skirt the rules, and you made the correct call. Way to go! :thumbup:

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com

 

[Runner]

Good call

Good call, Cat... a safe is hitting the legal OB and getting a rail... push out is what he should have called, no rail or OB ball needed. Player 2 called it out wrong.

 

[pt109]

I've never understood why some people call 'safe'....just play the damn safety!
...the only time I've called safe is in straight pool...when you've messed up your break
ball...you want to make the ball and stick him on the end rail.

I regards to the OP, as the opponent, I would've explained that he should've said 'push'
instead of 'safe'....the guy is obviously unfamiliar with the game and needs some help.
.....beginners should be treated with some compassion....
...isn't saying "shoot again" after that horrible push enough.

The ref's call was correct by the LETTER of the law...the SPIRIT?...not so much.

 

[Black Cat 5791]

A push must be called...those are the rules...period! This person was obviously trying to skirt the rules, and you made the correct call. Way to go Walter! :thumbup:

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com

Hey Scott, who the heck is Walter?

Black Cat "AKA" Kevin

 

[Busboy]

Push is push safe is safe good call in my eyes

 

[flyrv9]

You can call safe and then make a ball. That way you don't have to shoot again.

 

[victorl]

You can call safe and then make a ball. That way you don't have to shoot again.

Can't call safe in 9 ball, and your opponent has the option if you do that in 10-ball.

 

[mjantti]

Good call, except that you text implied that the player 1 made the decision and you agreed. As a ref, you don't ask for players' opinions :grin:

 

[PhilosopherKing]

Okay here's the Question, I'm refereeing a Tournament Yesterday.

Player 1 Breaks, he Breaks Dry.

Player 2 Approaches surveys table layout has a difficult hit but possible, rather than making the legal hit and opening up the table. Player 2 proceeds to call safe, hit a non legal OB, nothing hits a rail, and leaves the legal OB tied up without any possible means of being contacted without a Bad Hit occurring.

So Because Player 2 Called Safe and not Push, Player 1 said that it was not legal. I concurred with Player 1, and awarded a BIH Foul to Player 1.

Player 2 proceeded to argue that calling safe and executing a push in that situation was the same thing.

I told him that a Safe is a Safe, and a Push is a Push, and that the correct call has to be made.

What do yo guy's think?

Mind you had we a accepted it as a Push he still wouldn't have had a possible shot had Player 1 simply passed it back. So in my mind he was playing a safe to begin with, trying to combine what was legal and not legal.

Black Cat?

Was this match played on the moon?

Did Player 1 proceed to win via the "three foul" rule? (Not that I'd expect Player 2 to even know what that is.)

If not, then why were both of these guys fighting for possession of a table with no chance of making a legal shot?

How did the game play out?

 

[Scott Lee]

Sorry Kevin...Walter is Black Balled...all you "black" guys fool me! LOL

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com

Hey Scott, who the heck is Walter?

Black Cat "AKA" Kevin

 

[GideonF]

Can't call safe in 9 ball, and your opponent has the option if you do that in 10-ball.

I agree, and (other than the 8 ball), there are no "non-legal" balls after a dry break in 8 ball. I have no idea what game they are playing or what rule.

For future posts of this nature, it would help if the OP gives us the game and the rules being used. e.g., BCA/WPA 9-ball.

Gideon<----Totally confused.

 

[Black Cat 5791]

Thanks for all the replies, I knew I had the right call. I just couldn't believe that the person really thought that they hadn't done anything wrong. I really put it on to see if by some ridiculous chance someone had heard of anyone trying something like this before.

I could imagine what his intention was, but a safe is a safe and a push is a push. Pretty simple, I think.

The player that caused the confusion lost that set, went to the B Bracket and won the 3rd place Set, came back to the A Bracket and lost in the Finals. Actually a very good player, I just couldn't decided if he was sincere in is thought process or was trying to pull a fast one after realizing he'd made a mistake in saying defense instead of saying push.

Black Cat

 

[Kevin3824]

Maybe it is me having the Mosconi cup on my mind. I know for certain I have seen the players play safety shots as well as push shots there. In fact one push in general was called as foul because it did not have cushion contact after striking the ball. Maybe safety has multiple meanings itself. Playing safe as I know it is when you shoot a ball with no intention of making it but intending on leaving it tough to hit by the opponent. A push is when you hit your object ball and cause it or another ball to contact a rail afterward leaving your opponent a tough shot.and that can be turned down by the opponent and you would have to shoot it in that case.

 

[GideonF]

Maybe it is me having the Mosconi cup on my mind. I know for certain I have seen the players play safety shots as well as push shots there. In fact one push in general was called as foul because it did not have cushion contact after striking the ball. Maybe safety has multiple meanings itself. Playing safe as I know it is when you shoot a ball with no intention of making it but intending on leaving it tough to hit by the opponent. A push is when you hit your object ball and cause it or another ball to contact a rail afterward leaving your opponent a tough shot.and that can be turned down by the opponent and you would have to shoot it in that case.

Your understanding of push shots is wrong. Under WPA 9 ball rules, on the first shot after the break, a push shot can be called and the player can use a legal stroke to hit the cue ball anywhere on the table. He can hit the lowest ball (but does not have to hit a rail), a higher ball (no rail needed) or hit no ball at all. In each case, no foul but other player has the option to make the first player shoot.

A safety does not have to be called, but like any shot you must hit the lowest ball and hit a rail. Opponent has no option to give back the shot. Since 9 ball is not call shot, if you call safe, hit the one and fluke it or another object ball, you keep shooting.

Gideon


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[Mousa]

You either play by the rules or you don't! The rules say its BIH. Period.