Okay - Lets have it out! CNC vs. Non CNC'd made cues

[TellsItLikeItIs]

Hmmmm. Does Millie have any cheap sisters??

There are some inexpensive mills available. Keep in mind though, the more accurate your machine, the more accurate your work will be. With your experience I'm sure saying that is not necessary, just a reminder.

Millie is the 2nd one I've owned. The 1st one was really garbage (but cheap). At the time I felt I was making the right decision but later found it wasn't. After getting it set up, & cleaning and polishing all the bed ways, I put an indicator on it to check it out. The word "poor" doesn't even come close to describing how inaccurate the machine was. Having gone that far though, I tried making a few fronts with it. I threw all of them in the trash pile.

One could argue that it isn't the machine, but the operator instead, (and that is true to a degree). Also, one does need to know the quirks of a particular machine to get max results. But that wasn't the case with the 1st mill.

If you want something to just tinker with, the lesser mills might be okay. But for real precision, I don't recommend them.

Food for thought: Tooling! That part of it can run into some serious money also. Consider though, I do have a tool fetish Accuracy in the tooling is another area one should consider. Not surprisingly, the most accurate cutting tools I am finding are made in Japan and England.

Few things aggravate me more than picking up a cutting tool made to cut a certain size (an end mill as an example) then finding it cuts way oversize.

I'm rambling....Need to get started on my "Honey Do" list. Later.

 

[ScottR]

There are some inexpensive mills available. Keep in mind though, the more accurate your machine, the more accurate your work will be. With your experience I'm sure saying that is not necessary, just a reminder.

Millie is the 2nd one I've owned. The 1st one was really garbage (but cheap). At the time I felt I was making the right decision but later found it wasn't. After getting it set up, & cleaning and polishing all the bed ways, I put an indicator on it to check it out. The word "poor" doesn't even come close to describing how inaccurate the machine was. Having gone that far though, I tried making a few fronts with it. I threw all of them in the trash pile.

One could argue that it isn't the machine, but the operator instead, (and that is true to a degree). Also, one does need to know the quirks of a particular machine to get max results. But that wasn't the case with the 1st mill.

If you want something to just tinker with, the lesser mills might be okay. But for real precision, I don't recommend them.

Food for thought: Tooling! That part of it can run into some serious money also. Consider though, I do have a tool fetish Accuracy in the tooling is another area one should consider. Not surprisingly, the most accurate cutting tools I am finding are made in Japan and England.

Few things aggravate me more than picking up a cutting tool made to cut a certain size (an end mill as an example) then finding it cuts way oversize.

I'm rambling....Need to get started on my "Honey Do" list. Later.

Great advice all around. Thanks!

Don't forget the garbage . . . .

 

[Jack Madden]

That can be done with a tracer or a pantograph (with indexing capabilities naturally). I would guess that one was done via CNC though, only because I see the mans initials on the cue. BTW, he does very nice work.

Thank you. Started out with a pantograph. But went to a cnc set up for a entirely personal physical reason. People who spend 8-10 on a key board develop carpel tunnel or other ailments due to the repetiveness etc. Well with my pantograph - the feeling in the hands went away (and both arms felt like blocks of wood) - very painful - and that is not good running the pantograph - actually it was dangerous. So the change. And its not push a button - each of those diamonds require 3 programs, tool changes and are manually indexed.
Jack
www.johnmaddencues.com

 

[bandido]

Thanks Edwin, even though I'm probably not the original author of that statement.

I believe it safe to say that nearly every cue maker could say that same thing. Even though we all may build basically the same way, it's obvious that each maker has his/her own way of reaching the roads end. I would imagine you, in your earlier years of making, found the same as I: Lots & lots of pot holes in the road. One just needs to avoid hitting the same pot holes over & over again.

Sometmes you just have to build a wider road.

 

[bandido]

Now that the small bump has been resolved....

I can see what some of those who posted in this thread are trying to convey. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Since CNC has made it easier to make the conventional and often too common inlays, shouldn't cuemakers who have such technology strive to create unique designs? It often seems like CNC is used for speeding up the construction of the cue majority of the time that most cuemakers" product come out looking the same. Wouldn't those cues be like production cue designs but at a smaller quantity? And since some production cue companies also use as small a cutting bit that they can use, then shouldn't so called custom makers try hader to differentiate their products, from factory-made cues, by doing some final touches worthy of being called custom-crafted?

 

[DaveK]

A lathe for Fred

It's not the expense of the bit, it's having to go out and get a milling machine to handle the 7/8" cutter shank!!!

Any machine with an R8 spindle can accomodate a 7/8 shank tool, but that is not why I posted today ....

HEY FRED ! Here's a lathe for you ...

http://cgi.ebay.ca/Antique-Lathe-W-...603822096QQcategoryZ97230QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

I wish I had more money, time, and workshop space as this is something I'd love to own.

This turned out to be a fine thread with some excellent discussions and nice play by all after all ... and without any warning shots, I am impressed !

Dave

 

[skins]

Since CNC has made it easier to make the conventional and often too common inlays, shouldn't cuemakers who have such technology strive to create unique designs?

that's my thought to my involvement in cue making. many think when someone makes a design and uses cnc to incorporate it in a cue it gets "mass produced". in some cases they're right. the great thing about some makers is their desire to make sure the work that they do isn't whored out to the masses. this to me is part of what makes a custom cue just that, custom. that's why they have many many different designs and add new ones all the time. some want the buyer to have the greatest playing cue possible and a piece of artwork where no two are exactly alike aside from maybe sneaky work and for us i'm doing new stuff for those all the time as well. what we strive with our design work, even including using different materials, woods ect...., is to make very few cues with a particular look ,maybe no more than 3 or 4 cues if that, to keep things fresh and ultimately keep "investors" in our functional art happy as well. this also keeps annual production down to around 45 to 65 customs a year which should make them more desirable to the buyers who like the work. that isn't many cues to go around but for those who think that's a few to many for a custom maker i offer this : if you worked in your shop 6 or 7 days week on average of 10 hours a day on your craft then i'm sure you could understand the passion you must have to put that kind of time into the work. some cue makers don't work this much so thier prduction suffers. anyway it keeps us busy and we love it.

 

[bandido]

that's my thought to my involvement in cue making. many think when someone makes a design and uses cnc to incorporate it in a cue it gets "mass produced". in some cases they're right. the great thing about some makers is their desire to make sure the work that they do isn't whored out to the masses. this to me is part of what makes a custom cue just that, custom. that's why they have many many different designs and add new ones all the time. some want the buyer to have the greatest playing cue possible and a piece of artwork where no two are exactly alike aside from maybe sneaky work and for us i'm doing new stuff for those all the time as well. what we strive with our design work, even including using different materials, woods ect...., is to make very few cues with a particular look ,maybe no more than 3 or 4 cues if that, to keep things fresh and ultimately keep "investors" in our functional art happy as well. this also keeps annual production down to around 45 to 65 customs a year which should make them more desirable to the buyers who like the work. that isn't many cues to go around but for those who think that's a few to many for a custom maker i offer this : if you worked in your shop 6 or 7 days week on average of 10 hours a day on your craft then i'm sure you could understand the passion you must have to put that kind of time into the work. some cue makers don't work this much so thier prduction suffers. anyway it keeps us busy and we love it.

Hats off to you for how you help advance the craft.