Old pool halls vs. modern

tedkaufman

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
If you were a pool player in NYC, before the Color of Money, then you must know of Julians, formerly of 14th St. For those who missed this experience, Julians was a classic old style, seedy pool room, complete with daily attendance by a bunch of guys smoking cigars, faces pressed to racing sheets, all on the lookout for some easy way to make a buck. If there was any music, it came softly from the guy with the transistor stuck to his ear, during commercial breaks from whatever ball game he was listening to. To enter Julians, you had to make way through the junkies to climb the piss encrusted steps.

The tables were ancient Brunswick Gold Crowns that were only recovered when the bed color turned from green to gray, as the frail worn threads finally gave way to slate. The rubber rails had the responsiveness of masonry and few had intact covering after decades of cigarette burn torture.

Yet Julians did have a kind of perverse charm. And the resident house pro, George Makula, was one of the most talented all around players I've ever seen. Now and then, one of the top pros would come around. I recall Danny Diliberto playing one pocket with George in an all day match that ended dead even.

It's a wonder Peter Falk ever became Columbo, because he was so addicted to pool--and maybe the unique atmosphere of Julians--he frequently skipped auditions to continue playing, or maybe because he just couldn't bring himself to leave the place.

Despite its shortcomings, Julians was a fun place to play pool or just breeze the local pool gossip and road rumors. And for many years, it was the only pool room in Manhattan. Period!

One day a guy came in and said he was doing research for a new movie. He was writing the screenplay and wanted to talk to some of us to get an idea of how things worked in a pool room. He spent two days hanging around, asking questions, mostly talking to George, and the buzz around the room thereafter was this new Hustler movie. "Louie-the-mooch", the guy with the transistor radio, was particularly energized--a very rare spectacle for Louie--because he remembered the windfall days following The Hustler. After a few days, though, things settled down and talk returned to horses and baseball.

The Color of Money, came and went. "Wasn't that the movie George talked to that guy about?" Louie asked Spanish Mike.

Spanish Mike grudgingly replied, "Ummm." He didn't give a shit about movies. His attention was riveted on his pick in the third at Belmont. I doubt any of the regulars saw the movie. "Pay eight bucks to see a ****ing movie. Are you kidding me?"

Apparently, lots of other people did see the movie. Soon there was a buzz: a big new poolroom opened over on 21st Street. Really...? Fifty brand new Gold Crowns, carpeted floors, plants!, 12' snooker tables--it was magnificent. "Yeah, shit," said Louie, "I hear they're charging six bucks an hour for one player. Ten bucks at night Who's going to pay that kind of money to play pool?" Indeed, Louie had a point. Julians was $2 an hour. "Are you shittin' me--ten bucks an hour to play pool? No one's gonna play there."

Six months later, Chelea Billiards had to raise their rates. The crowds waiting for a table swarmed the front desk, such that, if you had a table by the desk, you didn't have room to shoot. By 8pm every evening you figured on 1-2 hours wait for a table. The price had gone up to $12/hour, and $2/hour for each additional player. Music blared at night as if it were a festival. Many nights, at 1am in the morning, you still had to wait for a table.

The owner, Gene, encouraged gamblers and pros to come to Chelsea. Special tight pocket tables were set up in the corners and downstairs. He figured the crowds wanted to see real hustlers. I guess Gene knew the underside of peoples' souls, given that he was a former minister.

Soon top pros like Grady Mathews and Mike Sigel started showing up and some seriously talented unnamed road players. Ginky, Tony Robles, Frankie Hernandez, Neptune Joe and Johnny Ervolino were regulars.

Anyway, Gene made a bundle from Chelsea Billiards, but not from Spanish Mike and Louie-the-mooch.
 
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Old pool halls vs. modern
There is one thing that I really miss about the old pool hall I played in when I was young. The hard wood floor. Two reasons. First, I miss being able to say good shot by tapping my stick on the floor. Now with carpet you have to say it and I always wander if saying it is going to bother my opponent at all. I never thought a little tap on the wood floor would bother them, but they could hear it. Second is when I'd get pissed at myself for missing a shot I could hit that wood floor with my stick and let everyone in the place know I was pissed.
 
I miss the days of pool w/ out loud music, but I do love the carpet!

Cap'n- when you get pissed, take a ball and throw it against the carpet full force. It'll bounce up hi enough to let you catch it and cause sufficient noise to let everyone know you aren't happy...watch out for your nutzz!
 
Black-Balled said:
I miss the days of pool w/ out loud music, but I do love the carpet!

Cap'n- when you get pissed, take a ball and throw it against the carpet full force. It'll bounce up hi enough to let you catch it and cause sufficient noise to let everyone know you aren't happy...watch out for your nutzz!


LOL knew someone would jump on that.:):D I certainly do agree about the music though.
 
Captain, I'm another old time cue tapper. And, I confess, if the tables were in better shape, I'd choose the charm of Julians-like rooms over nearly any of the modern rooms with blaring music.

The other thing about Julians was, you could go there and listen to guys like Spanish Mike and Louie-the-mooch and be thoroughly entertained without even picking up a cue. Louie always had the up-to-the-minute scores of the Yankee games. There were stacks of ancient Billiard Digests to rummage through. Spanish Mike would always play some 9-ball if you gave him the wild 7 ... cause he couldn't see no more. George always had the tide chart memorized as well as what fish were running and what boats were on the biggest catches. I've never seen a modern poolroom with such varied and fascinating entertainment!
 
tedkaufman said:
If you were a pool player in NYC, before the Color of Money, then you must know of Julians, formerly of 14th St.
I played there many of times in the very early 70's.
Great place to just hang out but not a lot of fun coming or going since the stair case had an awful smell at times.

Thanks for the memory,
Myron
 
Kevin Lindstrom said:
One good thing about modern pool halls is that hopefully before to long they will all be smoke free.


No offence Kevin, nothing personal but, that would probably be the day I quit. Pool not smoking.

The key word there being "all". I can go to a place that has no smoking and play some, but if I didn't have anywhere to go where I could play and smoke all I wanted, that would probably be the end.

Pool halls are one of the few places us smokers have left.
 
CaptainJR said:
No offence Kevin, nothing personal but, that would probably be the day I quit. Pool not smoking.

The key word there being "all". I can go to a place that has no smoking and play some, but if I didn't have anywhere to go where I could play and smoke all I wanted, that would probably be the end.

Pool halls are one of the few places us smokers have left.

What about all the cities/states that are banning smoking in all public places? Are you going to quit going to all public places?
 
Finger snaps are the same thing as tapping your cue on the floor!

CaptainJR said:
Old pool halls vs. modern
There is one thing that I really miss about the old pool hall I played in when I was young. The hard wood floor. Two reasons. First, I miss being able to say good shot by tapping my stick on the floor.

CaptainJR...As old of a poolplayer as you are, I'm surprised that you don't know the culture. Snapping your fingers three times is the same as tapping your cue on the floor. This acknowledgement of a good shot has been around for many decades.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
 
zeeder said:
What about all the cities/states that are banning smoking in all public places? Are you going to quit going to all public places?

Geart Post, and do not forget some cities even have BANNED Smoking outsie of Public Places, in Public Space....:p
 
Most of the old billiard rooms around here are long gone. The one that sticks in my mind the most was one called Scona Billiards, up above the bowling alley. They didn't serve alcohal, but they were open 24 hours. I remember being there all night more than once. They had 6 or 8 12 foot snooker tables and about 10 9 foot tables. That's the last place I've ever seen pea pool being played. In the 90s pool halls opened up that were licenced to serve alcohal and Scona Billiards couldn't complete and went out of business. I'm still sad that it's gone. It takes at least 50 years just to get that kind of smell in a place.
 
While I can muster up some nostalgia for the old rooms (Cochran's, Palace in San Fran, Duke's in San Jose), I like the new rooms better overall because of the improved social atmosphere (more females, beer in every joint) and improved equipment maintenance. It's easy to think back on the old days and conveniently forget the countless hours spent in abject boredom, listening to old wheezebags tell the same story for the zillionth time, wondering if the jukebox guy would EVER put new songs in, and fighting to see who got the table without torn felt. We may not get the war stories and woofing like we used to have, but now we can just come to AZB and get all the pool talk we can handle.
If I still gambled a lot, though, I would pick the old rooms in a heartbeat, cuz the action was a whole bunch better years ago.
 
Great story, great thread... Unfortunately, I'm a newbie who missed that era altogether. Yet, I'm sure I'd be much more at home at Julian's or Chelsea Billiards than anything open these days.

Everything in contemporary New York is watered down, toothless, and short of authentic.
 
Scott Lee said:
CaptainJR...As old of a poolplayer as you are, I'm surprised that you don't know the culture. Snapping your fingers three times is the same as tapping your cue on the floor. This acknowledgement of a good shot has been around for many decades.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com


Maybe I'm not as old as I think I am. I have never heard or seen that. Must just be my area. I never traveled to other places to play. Just are local hall.

OR

Maybe I just never made a good shot:eek:
 
The room I play in up here in ontario is definitly an old style room. The owner put in alcohol a few years ago to keep up. Other than some late night morons, its not too bad. And if we get a game of poker going, I dont mind a beer or two.

I do prefer the old style. A pool hall shouldnt have windows, and if possible, should not be on the main floor. You should either have to climb stairs, or go down stairs. Just seems right.

This is why I was so happy when I made a trip down to Chicago a few years ago. I knew some of Color of Money had been filmed there. So I went hunting! I found Chris's Billiards. And I was so happy to find, it looked exactly as it did in the movie. And it hadnt become some kind of schrine to the movie. One glass case with some production sheets, and a picture of Cruise and Newman. Other than that, the place didnt look like it changed at all. My wife (girlfriend at the time) knew how excited I was to be there, so she actually took a few pictures of me playing. I was angry at first, a flash camera in a pool hall?!?!! Today Im happy I have those pics.

The table next to us, there was an old black man, at least in his 60s, very tall, with two young huge guys (looking like they were there to make sure he got paid). He made a game with a young very short Italian guy. The game was even one pocket for $500 a game. WOW! I never see this at my pool room! It was the old man to break first. He analyzed the rack for a few moments. Then with a soft stroke, opened the pack a little, dropping a ball in his pocket. 7 shots later, he put $500 in his pocket. Seriously, for me, that was awesome. I dont know alot about one pocket, but Ive never seen anyone break n run in one pocket. Or even attempt to make a ball off the break when good $$$ is riding on it. There was no safety involved, he left the cue ball at the bottom rail for his next shot.

Love old pool rooms.
 
zeeder said:
What about all the cities/states that are banning smoking in all public places? Are you going to quit going to all public places?


All most at that point now. Only one restaurant in our town that I will eat at now. I'm rather sure that private clubs make there own rules. I don't think the VFW will ever ban smoking in there establishment. Several other Vietnam Vets and myself go to the meetings and pretty much control the vote.
 
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I've never heard of that either. Of course, most places nowadays you'd have to use a shotgun to be heard over the music. I always loved the music of the balls more than whatever was being played on the jukebox. 35-40 years ago there were a few of the old style pool halls in the SF bay area that I would frequent on occasion. Mostly though, we would play in the newer style rooms with the updated tables, food, and beer. Very few old timers ever showed up, though. During the day we would pretty much have the place to ourselves. I always preferred this to the crowds at night. Although I do remember one night many, many years ago my buddy and I were loaded on acid and the room was packed. I found half a joint lying on the window sill by our table, so we fired it up right there. Nobody said a word or seemed to notice. I was probably too blitzed to tell, though. I remember getting hustled once in a pool hall upstairs on Market street in SF. I didn't play well enough to be playing for money and didn't have much at the time either. He talked me into playing 9-ball for a buck or two a game. He would miss on purpose just enough to just barely win each game for the first few, then he wanted to up the bet to $5 a rack. He was very pushy, but I managed to send him packing before I got too far in the hole. There were a couple of pool halls, one in San Mateo and another in Daly City, that were both called Town & Country Billiards. They were very upscale rooms for the time with 30 or more new Gold Crowns but very reasonable rates. The one in Daly City had ornate lights over the tables and heavy theater type curtains by the windows. I think they had a bar there as well. The one in San Mateo was less fancy but still very modern. Fun memories and fun places to play. Thanks for the thread.
 
Good news for non-smokers

A new pool hall just opened in Albuquerque, NM that is entirely SMOKE-FREE called Carom Club. I just checked it out last weekend, and it is high quality! If anyone is in the area, I definitely recommend playing there.
 
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