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billiardcue

billiardcue

11th Commandment
Silver Member
The cue belonged to New York City player who went by the name of 5th Avenue Red.

I got a little information about the gentleman on this previous post - http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=144807

This cue was recently acquired from Red's son. Red died in 1983 at the age of 63.

Trying to figure out who made the cue.

It is not a Balabushka, Szamboti, Palmer, Paradise.

I believe the shafts are newer than the butt, original shaft probably had a larger diameter tenon.

May be a newer wrap, it is wrapped to the right like Szamboti.

Butt sleeve is hard black plastic, like an old bowling ball.

Super heavy and long:
butt weighs 21.6 ounces - 29 1/4" long
shaft 1 weighs 4.3 ounces - 30" long - 12.9mm
shaft 2 weighs 3.7 ounces - 28 3/4" long - 13.2mm
both shafts have 3/4' long ferrules (not ivory) with red fiber pads under the tips - maybe Champion

Any information about 5th Avenue Red or who made the cue would be appreciated.


5thave_red-az.jpg

5thave_joint-az.jpg

5thave_butt-az.jpg
 
Thats a hardcore old school cue, if there ever was one. WOW!!! I wonder is Gus wrapped it at some point, wouldnt that be something???
 
Fatboy said:
Thats a hardcore old school cue, if there ever was one. WOW!!! I wonder is Gus wrapped it at some point, wouldnt that be something???
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Eric it is a cool old school cue.

That Gus may have rewrapped and/or built one of the shafts also crossed my mind.
 
billiardcue said:
I've never had a Mike Fedunka cue. What is it about this cue that gives any indication Fedunka may be the maker?
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Dick, the two things that hit me were the quality of the work and the area where the cue is located, nothing specific about the cue construction. He would be my guess after those you ruled out.
 
Old school

Really cool old school cue. Was the rounded bumper like that fairly common back then? It reminds me a lot of Tad's work. Especially the thick rings in the butt sleeve.
 
It looks like a possible Rolly Welch or pre-Adam Richard Helmstetter. where richard got his basic style.I have seen that joint style on more than one ocasion on unmarked cues said to be Richards early work. the shaft inserts are not like the ones I have seen however. The ones I have seen looked more like an aluminium helicoil, than a modern insert, such as the ones pictured.

The Dacron wrap as pictured, can be found on both Richard Helmstetter's and Gordon hart's early work. But Gordon marked all of his cues as an advertising tool from day one.

Does anyone in the AZB community have any kind of relationship with Richard? He would be a tremendouse wealth of information for vintage cue information.

Neat old cue (if you'r Paul bunyan) lol.
 
jayman said:
It looks like a possible Rolly Welch.
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Who is Rolly Welch?

jayman said:
It looks like a possible pre-Adam Richard Helmstetter. where richard got his basic style.I have seen that joint style on more than one ocasion on unmarked cues said to be Richards early work. the shaft inserts are not like the ones I have seen however. The ones I have seen looked more like an aluminium helicoil, than a modern insert, such as the ones pictured..
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Pre-Adam Helmstetter is also my first inclination.
As I stated in the first post I don't believe the shafts are original to the butt. The tenons are too small in diameter and different on each shaft, the black phenolic is longer on the shafts than on the butt and the brass ring on one shaft is a different thickness than the butt (see photo).
A few days after I received the cue and after I photographed it the cue's owner sent me a pair of old black plastic joint protectors that have the Adam lion logo molded into the tops of them. Did Richard use the lion logo pre-Adam?

jayman said:
The Dacron wrap as pictured, can be found on both Richard Helmstetter's and Gordon hart's early work.
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The wrap is linen not dacron, it is highly pressed and has something on it, possibly bee's wax or something similar.
Also it is wrapped to the right like Szamboti did, most cuemaker's wrap to the left.
Possibly Gus rewrapped the cue and made one of the shafts at some point in time.

jayman said:
Does anyone in the AZB community have any kind of relationship with Richard? He would be a tremendouse wealth of information for vintage cue information.

Neat old cue (if you'r Paul bunyan) lol.
Click to expand...
The couple of times I spoke with Richard he was a wealth of information.

It is a neat old cue even if your not Paul Bunyan but it would be tough to use with an open bridge.
 
"Who is Rolly Welch?"

Actually I think its Rollie Welch. He was the cue maker who taut Richard how to make cues.

"The couple of times I spoke with Richard he was a wealth of information."

Damn!! that must have been very interesting.
 
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