Older players vs newer players
- Thread starter Mr441
- Start date
If all the players were playing at their "Prime" and the playing conditions are using todays equipment;
Ralph Greenleaf would have to be considered as a top choice.
Not too many of todays or yesterdays great players could run 100 clay balls on a 10 foot table DRUNK.
Ralph Greenleaf would have to be considered as a top choice.
Not too many of todays or yesterdays great players could run 100 clay balls on a 10 foot table DRUNK.
I had a dream about this just last night and here were the results:
1. Willie Mosconi
2. Efren Reyes
3. Ralph Greenleaf
4. Harold Worst
5. Mike Sigel
6. Frank Taberski
7. Luther Lassiter
8. Steve Mizerak
9. Jimmy Caras
10. Irving Crane
Reyes only needed 16 balls in the 14.1 division and he would've taken the crown. Of course, I had all my money bet on Efren.
Some of the biggest crowds were at the Greenleaf/Taberski matchups. Some rivalries are too good to pass up!
The old-timers really liked 1-Pocket but didn't care for 9-ball too much.
Of the modern players, Thorsten Hohmann did well but didn't have his One-Pocket chops working too well. Johnny Archer was strong but was outplayed in 14.1. Nick Varner and Babe Cranfield just missed being in the top ten.
Naturally, Minnesota Fats was there the whole time, saying these boys can't sink a ball and wouldn't play him for a grape if they owned a vineyard.
1. Willie Mosconi
2. Efren Reyes
3. Ralph Greenleaf
4. Harold Worst
5. Mike Sigel
6. Frank Taberski
7. Luther Lassiter
8. Steve Mizerak
9. Jimmy Caras
10. Irving Crane
Reyes only needed 16 balls in the 14.1 division and he would've taken the crown. Of course, I had all my money bet on Efren.
Some of the biggest crowds were at the Greenleaf/Taberski matchups. Some rivalries are too good to pass up!
The old-timers really liked 1-Pocket but didn't care for 9-ball too much.
Of the modern players, Thorsten Hohmann did well but didn't have his One-Pocket chops working too well. Johnny Archer was strong but was outplayed in 14.1. Nick Varner and Babe Cranfield just missed being in the top ten.
Naturally, Minnesota Fats was there the whole time, saying these boys can't sink a ball and wouldn't play him for a grape if they owned a vineyard.
Voodoo Daddy
One Pocket 101
tom mcgonagle said:
Absolutely correct sir!!!
If we are talking players in the prime then it would be hard for me to leave Mark Tadd out of the top of the results. I know it wasnt that long of a stretch but in his prime he was a monster. I also think he would excel in this month or two long format.
Efren for sure with Parica in there as well. He was 2nd behind Efren for a while and at one time would play anyone one pocket.
We see players today playing this era's games. Nothing says that Archer and others wouldnt become world beaters in other games if the money was right to put the time into it.
Efren for sure with Parica in there as well. He was 2nd behind Efren for a while and at one time would play anyone one pocket.
We see players today playing this era's games. Nothing says that Archer and others wouldnt become world beaters in other games if the money was right to put the time into it.
Elwood said:
Evans is a guy that I have never seen play but have heard of many players ducking!
A guy from NY moved to AL years ago when I lived there and had many stories of Evans. He talked about him like he was Efren like with his abilities. Said he stroke was as smooth as anyones.
Wish there were more videos of the older guys.
Gonna change it up just abit.
Lets say all the best pool talents of all the era's were instead born into the same era, grew up competing with each other on the same equippment, in the same games, with the same opportunities.
You then have an event like this, a huge tournament with race to 20 10-ball, straight pool to 500, and one-pocket.
Every single player is playing at their peak when the tournament takes place, they are all at their best.
In no particular order the guys I think would be extremely hard to beat would be,
Mosconi: At his absolute best and with his extreme drive to win you know his name is going to be somewhere near the top.
Reyes: Giving this guy a long session like this, at his best he was easily the top player in the world in the late 90's, his name is somwhere near the top for sure.
Sigel: Again, this guy at his best rarely missed. He was considered the best when he was at his peak. He would win far more then his share and be competitive to win it all. He had that drive to win like Mosconi did.
Strickland: We are talking everyone at their peak games, and when Strickland was at his best he was almost inhuman. Playing at his best this guy is going to be a threat to win for sure.
Greenleaf: There is little video footage of this guy, but Mosconi said he was awesome and he was by far the best player of his era so having him brought up in the same era as the rest you would think being the best of his era would make him a threat.
Lassiter: Played all the games very well, at his best he was winning all around events over all his peers. Was the top player of his era.
**************************************************
Those are the guys I think you would be seeing the champion come from. Names they would be competing against that would not be as favored as the above IMO.
Nick Varner, Buddy Hall, Keith McCready, Allen Hopkins, Steve Mizerak, Danny Dileberto, Alex Pagulayan, Thorsten Hohman, Johnny Archer, Ralf Souquet, Oliver Ortmman, Fong Pang Chou, Chin Shun Yang, Chia Ching Wu, Fransisco Bustamante, Billy Incardona, Danny Dileberto, Irvin Crane, Jimmy Caras, Jim Rempe, Dennis Orcollo, Jose Parica, SVB, Mika Immonen, Rodalfo Luat, Lee Van Corteza, Ronnie Alcano, Kim Davenport, Corey Deuel, Shannon Daulton, Thomas Engert, John Schmidt, Dennis Hatch, Louis Roberts, Tommy Kennedy, Mike Lebron, Mike Massey, Danny Medina, David Matlock, Darren Appelton, CJ Willey, George San Souci, Santos Sambajon, Howard Vickery, Dallas West, Lou Butera, Daryl Peach, Neils Feijen, Erwin Rudolph, Andrew Ponzi, Eddie Taylor, Jimmy Moore, Ray Martin, Ronnie Allen, Cisero Murphy, Larry Johnson, Ed Kelly, and more.
***************************************************
When it is all said and done those top 6 guys I listed edge out the rest as far as being the favorites to win. Everyone on the second list is a phenomenal player in their own right, many multi-time world champions but the guys I list above seemed to dominate the game and rise above the rest no matter how good the competition was.
Lets say all the best pool talents of all the era's were instead born into the same era, grew up competing with each other on the same equippment, in the same games, with the same opportunities.
You then have an event like this, a huge tournament with race to 20 10-ball, straight pool to 500, and one-pocket.
Every single player is playing at their peak when the tournament takes place, they are all at their best.
In no particular order the guys I think would be extremely hard to beat would be,
Mosconi: At his absolute best and with his extreme drive to win you know his name is going to be somewhere near the top.
Reyes: Giving this guy a long session like this, at his best he was easily the top player in the world in the late 90's, his name is somwhere near the top for sure.
Sigel: Again, this guy at his best rarely missed. He was considered the best when he was at his peak. He would win far more then his share and be competitive to win it all. He had that drive to win like Mosconi did.
Strickland: We are talking everyone at their peak games, and when Strickland was at his best he was almost inhuman. Playing at his best this guy is going to be a threat to win for sure.
Greenleaf: There is little video footage of this guy, but Mosconi said he was awesome and he was by far the best player of his era so having him brought up in the same era as the rest you would think being the best of his era would make him a threat.
Lassiter: Played all the games very well, at his best he was winning all around events over all his peers. Was the top player of his era.
**************************************************
Those are the guys I think you would be seeing the champion come from. Names they would be competing against that would not be as favored as the above IMO.
Nick Varner, Buddy Hall, Keith McCready, Allen Hopkins, Steve Mizerak, Danny Dileberto, Alex Pagulayan, Thorsten Hohman, Johnny Archer, Ralf Souquet, Oliver Ortmman, Fong Pang Chou, Chin Shun Yang, Chia Ching Wu, Fransisco Bustamante, Billy Incardona, Danny Dileberto, Irvin Crane, Jimmy Caras, Jim Rempe, Dennis Orcollo, Jose Parica, SVB, Mika Immonen, Rodalfo Luat, Lee Van Corteza, Ronnie Alcano, Kim Davenport, Corey Deuel, Shannon Daulton, Thomas Engert, John Schmidt, Dennis Hatch, Louis Roberts, Tommy Kennedy, Mike Lebron, Mike Massey, Danny Medina, David Matlock, Darren Appelton, CJ Willey, George San Souci, Santos Sambajon, Howard Vickery, Dallas West, Lou Butera, Daryl Peach, Neils Feijen, Erwin Rudolph, Andrew Ponzi, Eddie Taylor, Jimmy Moore, Ray Martin, Ronnie Allen, Cisero Murphy, Larry Johnson, Ed Kelly, and more.
***************************************************
When it is all said and done those top 6 guys I listed edge out the rest as far as being the favorites to win. Everyone on the second list is a phenomenal player in their own right, many multi-time world champions but the guys I list above seemed to dominate the game and rise above the rest no matter how good the competition was.
I'll take Steve Mizerak and bet it all.
No disrespect to the other players but at one time or another he was a top player at 9ball and 14.1 and was a very good 1pkt player.
No disrespect to the other players but at one time or another he was a top player at 9ball and 14.1 and was a very good 1pkt player.
I'm not sure...
that anyone chased Harold Worst for a game. (he was a world champion in every game) And although I never got to witness his game, I do know from his sparring partner that he thought Harold was the best of them all in that era. I'm sure a (little
) part of that 'may' be biased as my Dad was a pal of his when they were kids. :smile:
td
Celtic said:
that anyone chased Harold Worst for a game. (he was a world champion in every game) And although I never got to witness his game, I do know from his sparring partner that he thought Harold was the best of them all in that era. I'm sure a (little
) part of that 'may' be biased as my Dad was a pal of his when they were kids. :smile: td
Efren won the "Maine Event" (straight pool) in 1995
Actually, you'd be surprised -- Efren dominated the "Maine Event" (straight pool tournament in Portland, ME) in 1995:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Efren_Reyes#Trivia
Always a threat, no matter what game.
-Sean
gunzby said:
Actually, you'd be surprised -- Efren dominated the "Maine Event" (straight pool tournament in Portland, ME) in 1995:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Efren_Reyes#Trivia
Always a threat, no matter what game.
-Sean
grindz said:that anyone chased Harold Worst for a game. (he was a world champion in every game) And although I never got to witness his game, I do know from his sparring partner that he thought Harold was the best of them all in that era. I'm sure a (little
td
I posted something similar to this in another thread. Quite a few of the older players say he was the best, just died too young...........
muttley76 said:
That's quite a bit exaggerated, he may play the best 3 cushion players in the world but he certainly doesn't play anywhere near their speed. The top 3-c players play at about a 1.8 - 2.0 avg. Efren is a 1.0 or 1.1.
that's still an edge though over other pool players.
And I know someone is going to say he's the best straight rail and balkline billiards player in the world and that is simply not true not even close to being true, I don't know how those rumors get started. There are amatuer billiard players that beat him at those games.
grindz said:that anyone chased Harold Worst for a game. (he was a world champion in every game) And although I never got to witness his game, I do know from his sparring partner that he thought Harold was the best of them all in that era. I'm sure a (little
td
You can witness abit of his game here.
http://johnstoncityvideosll.blogspot.com/2008/06/johnston-city-1965-harold-worst-and.html
Definately deserves to be in the mix but I would have to put him in with Mizerak, Varner, and others that I had to put in the lower section simply because there are so many awesome players and I could not exactly list 20 guys as favorites.
desi2960 said:
How lucky for you --- just a afternoon or evening with legends
