Olhausen rattle, is this a good fix?

[boogieman]

I've been doing research on the forum and online and would like to hear if I'm on the right track. I have an Olhausen and I'm sick of cleanly hit balls over a medium pace rattling out of the pocket. It makes the game less fun as properly hit object balls in which your CB ends up with perfect pinpoint position, rattle out and end your table time. I know the location where the pocket will accept or reject balls (where the slate cutout meets the rail) but I'm tired of fussing with it. I don't want buckets but the rattle is ridiculous. Sometimes you have to pocket a ball harder than a slow roll to get shape. Again, this results in perfect shape but the object ball just rattling out. Olhausen are well built tables, but these pockets are like a circus act, not fun.

I don't want to do any subrail work as I'm a DIY guy and I'll be honest, it looks like a lot of work and I don't want to do such a big project, nor do I want to replace the rail rubber as it plays perfect. I've read about "diamondizing" and I'm not interested in that either. I'd like a relatively easy fix and I'm handy and believe I have the skill to replace facings.

Is the consensus to replace the stock facings with 3/16" 60 durometer rating neoprene facings? I would be perfectly satisfied if this cut down the death rattle by even 25%. What's the scoop, how well will this alleviate the rattle? Am I on the right track?

 

[rexus31]

The only way to fix the problem is to fix the problem.

Problem: Olhausen pockets are cut too wide. To fix the problem you have to recut the pockets.

Anything else will be a band aid at best. At best.

 

[boogieman]

The only way to fix the problem is to fix the problem.

Problem: Olhausen pockets are cut too wide. To fix the problem you have to recut the pockets.

Anything else will be a band aid at best. At best.

Thanks for the reply.

So will the band aid stop the bleeding by 25%? I really don't want to go down the subrail extension route. It's my understanding that the problem is the more obtuse angle on the corner pockets and the softness of the accufast cushions when paired with the thin 1/8" factory facings. Does this mean if I fix the issue of too thin and soft facings by stiffening them up with the thicker 60 durometer neoprene it will improve them some? I understand this isn't the ultimate fix, which is extending the subrails to change the pocket angle, new cushions and all the work that goes with that. I'm hoping for an improvement, not necessarily a perfect pocket.

 

[rexus31]

The agle is what has to be corrected. It doesn't matter what thickness or hardness the facings are. The angle will still spit the balls out.

 

[jtompilot]

The agle is what has to be corrected. It doesn't matter what thickness or hardness the facings are. The angle will still spit the balls out.

I know its not right but is it possible cut an angled shim to adjust the pocket angle? Table hack fix

 

[boogieman]

The agle is what has to be corrected. It doesn't matter what thickness or hardness the facings are. The angle will still spit the balls out.

Ugh... dang. Well, it looks like I have some thinking to do.

 

[rexus31]

I know its not right but is it possible cut an angled shim to adjust the pocket angle? Table hack fix

It's possible but we are talking 4 or 5 degrees so you certainly couldn't do it with one facing. Problem is, when you start stacking facings, the pockets play dead. He'd go from one extreme to the other.

 

[Ssonerai]

I know its not right but is it possible cut an angled shim to adjust the pocket angle? Table hack fix

Why do you suggest that would automatically be hack work?
Techs routinely extend rails to tighten pockets with wood shims,

There is not a qualitative difference if some wood shims are beveled, appropriate material, and appropriately installed.
I’m not a table tech as far as setting up any tables. As far as woodwork, though, it’s well within my professional wheelhouse.
I would suggest micro-lam plywood for density & stability, perfectly fitted with the joint abraded to 60gr with absolutely no rounding, and adhered with WEST correctly mixed with cotton flocking. Ideally there would be a 2 part glue application: one neat coat for end grain saturation, wait 20 mins and mix the second batch with filler. There should already be a set of cauls made up with non-stick faces to assemble and moderately clamp so the pieces align and don’t go skidding around.

AFA procedural details, the microlam ply can be used to extend the rails both ends and then the entire entry & down angles recut after the glue sets. Or if you are good and familiar with close work using hand tools, the shims can be cut & applied pre-cut.

As far as the details: 4deg = .140” in 2” (rough guess approx. rail width along miter. Might be a little more or less depending on table). So you would have to be happy to close up the corners ..280” with stock facing thickness. Obviously thicker taper shims could still be used if you want to close more. If everything is recut after the extensions, any opening width & angles can be used. Though in that case you might as well cut the original rails first to clean up damage, and apply flat shims.

It would seem in most cases that applying extra thickness wood shim & re-cutting the entire rail after glue sets would most easily yield the most uniform results among all pockets. But again, if you are a dab hand with sharp hand tools, even that can be finessed with pre-cut shims.

The point of this is that there are multiple methods that can work.
None are trivial to do correctly for a durable result.
So pick the method that suits your time & circumstances to effect in a solution that is thorough & will not require re- doing.

smt

 

[jtompilot]

Why do you suggest that would automatically be hack work?
Techs routinely extend rails to tighten pockets with wood shims,

There is not a qualitative difference if some wood shims are beveled, appropriate material, and appropriately installed.
I’m not a table tech as far as setting up any tables. As far as woodwork, though, it’s well within my professional wheelhouse.
I would suggest micro-lam plywood for density & stability, perfectly fitted with the joint abraded to 60gr with absolutely no rounding, and adhered with WEST correctly mixed with cotton flocking. Ideally there would be a 2 part glue application: one neat coat for end grain saturation, wait 20 mins and mix the second batch with filler. There should already be a set of cauls made up with non-stick faces to assemble and moderately clamp so the pieces align and don’t go skidding around.

AFA procedural details, the microlam ply can be used to extend the rails both ends and then the entire entry & down angles recut after the glue sets. Or if you are good and familiar with close work using hand tools, the shims can be cut & applied pre-cut.

As far as the details: 4deg = .140” in 2” (rough guess approx. rail width along miter. Might be a little more or less depending on table). So you would have to be happy to close up the corners ..280” with stock facing thickness. Obviously thicker taper shims could still be used if you want to close more. If everything is recut after the extensions, any opening width & angles can be used. Though in that case you might as well cut the original rails first to clean up damage, and apply flat shims.

It would seem in most cases that applying extra thickness wood shim & re-cutting the entire rail after glue sets would most easily yield the most uniform results among all pockets. But again, if you are a dab hand with sharp hand tools, even that can be finessed with pre-cut shims.

The point of this is that there are multiple methods that can work.
None are trivial to do correctly for a durable result.
So pick the method that suits your time & circumstances to effect in a solution that is thorough & will not require re- doing.

smt

If you’re going to install some type of wood shim, isn’t that a rail extension and you’d need new cushions? I think the op is asking about rubber shims to change the angle and not replace the cushion

 

[rexus31]

Why do you suggest that would automatically be hack work?
Techs routinely extend rails to tighten pockets with wood shims,

There is not a qualitative difference if some wood shims are beveled, appropriate material, and appropriately installed.
I’m not a table tech as far as setting up any tables. As far as woodwork, though, it’s well within my professional wheelhouse.
I would suggest micro-lam plywood for density & stability, perfectly fitted with the joint abraded to 60gr with absolutely no rounding, and adhered with WEST correctly mixed with cotton flocking. Ideally there would be a 2 part glue application: one neat coat for end grain saturation, wait 20 mins and mix the second batch with filler. There should already be a set of cauls made up with non-stick faces to assemble and moderately clamp so the pieces align and don’t go skidding around.

AFA procedural details, the microlam ply can be used to extend the rails both ends and then the entire entry & down angles recut after the glue sets. Or if you are good and familiar with close work using hand tools, the shims can be cut & applied pre-cut.

As far as the details: 4deg = .140” in 2” (rough guess approx. rail width along miter. Might be a little more or less depending on table). So you would have to be happy to close up the corners ..280” with stock facing thickness. Obviously thicker taper shims could still be used if you want to close more. If everything is recut after the extensions, any opening width & angles can be used. Though in that case you might as well cut the original rails first to clean up damage, and apply flat shims.

It would seem in most cases that applying extra thickness wood shim & re-cutting the entire rail after glue sets would most easily yield the most uniform results among all pockets. But again, if you are a dab hand with sharp hand tools, even that can be finessed with pre-cut shims.

The point of this is that there are multiple methods that can work.
None are trivial to do correctly for a durable result.
So pick the method that suits your time & circumstances to effect in a solution that is thorough & will not require re- doing.

smt

This is considered extending the subrails and would require new cushions.

 

[boogieman]

If you’re going to install some type of wood shim, isn’t that a rail extension and you’d need new cushions? I think the op is asking about rubber shims to change the angle and not replace the cushion

I'm not attempting to change the angle with shims, or with anything, but I understood a 3/16" 60 durometer neoprene kept the soft accufast cushions from rejecting balls as much. The stock facings are 1/8". I'm not concerned with the angle or the 1/8" tighter that the pockets would be if it stopped some bounce out/pocket rattle. Again, I understand that the pocket angle is one of the issues, but I also have read that the thicker and harder neoprene reduces the rattle caused by the soft cushions.

I've scoured old threads here, google etc. I was hoping someone had knowledge if it is in fact true that switching 1/8" stock Olhausen facings with 3/16" 60 durometer neoprene would help with SOME of the rattle problem.

I'm not trying to sound like an ass or anything, but it's this one specific question that is in bold. I do appreciate the replies so far.

 

[bradsh98]

Your thinking is correct. Harder facings will make the pockets a bit more forgiving. Additionally, if you have the ability to sand the ends of the rails, by means of a disk sander, or a table saw setup with a calibration plate and sanding disk, you can correct the angle of the new facing. You could install 1/4" or 3/8" facings, and sand them down to whatever pocket size you want. Don't go too thin though, or they will tear off, and give you a bit of a scare.

 

[jtompilot]

I'm not attempting to change the angle with shims, or with anything, but I understood a 3/16" 60 durometer neoprene kept the soft accufast cushions from rejecting balls as much. The stock facings are 1/8". I'm not concerned with the angle or the 1/8" tighter that the pockets would be if it stopped some bounce out/pocket rattle. Again, I understand that the pocket angle is one of the issues, but I also have read that the thicker and harder neoprene reduces the rattle caused by the soft cushions.

I've scoured old threads here, google etc. I was hoping someone had knowledge if it is in fact true that switching 1/8" stock Olhausen facings with 3/16" 60 durometer neoprene would help with SOME of the rattle problem.

I'm not trying to sound like an ass or anything, but it's this one specific question that is in bold. I do appreciate the replies so fa

Like Bradshaw said, if I went thru the hassle of getting thicker shims I’d at least sand them down and try to improve the angle

 

[boogieman]

Your thinking is correct. Harder facings will make the pockets a bit more forgiving. Additionally, if you have the ability to sand the ends of the rails, by means of a disk sander, or a table saw setup with a calibration plate and sanding disk, you can correct the angle of the new facing. You could install 1/4" or 3/8" facings, and sand them down to whatever pocket size you want. Don't go too thin though, or they will tear off, and give you a bit of a scare.

Like Bradshaw said, if I went thru the hassle of getting thicker shims I’d at least sand them down and try to improve the angle

Thanks, I believe I will give this a try. Time to gather materials and get into nitpicking mode! It will be awhile, but I'll try to post some pics when it's done.

 

[rexus31]

Your thinking is correct. Harder facings will make the pockets a bit more forgiving. Additionally, if you have the ability to sand the ends of the rails, by means of a disk sander, or a table saw setup with a calibration plate and sanding disk, you can correct the angle of the new facing. You could install 1/4" or 3/8" facings, and sand them down to whatever pocket size you want. Don't go too thin though, or they will tear off, and give you a bit of a scare.

Just out of curiosity, what is the going rate to have this done?

 

[bradsh98]

Just out of curiosity, what is the going rate to have this done?

Good question... I wish that I knew. Hahaha.

Typically, when I do this work, I charge somewhere in the vicinity of $150, depending on what exactly needs to be done. Sounds like a lot, but it's a bit time consuming, and the cost of materials could be as much as $30 (This does not include cloth, or the cost to re-cover the cushions). This isn't my preferred way to fix the problem, but sometimes people just don't want to spend the extra money required. I totally get that, especially if the cushions are relatively new, or in good shape.

 

[rexus31]

Good question... I wish that I knew. Hahaha.

Typically, when I do this work, I charge somewhere in the vicinity of $150, depending on what exactly needs to be done. Sounds like a lot, but it's a bit time consuming, and the cost of materials could be as much as $30 (This does not include cloth, or the cost to re-cover the cushions). This isn't my preferred way to fix the problem, but sometimes people just don't want to spend the extra money required. I totally get that, especially if the cushions are relatively new, or in good shape.

Thanks, man. I imagine the job would be very difficult to do with uniformity on all 8 cuts without a properly set up miter saw.

 

[Ssonerai]

Apologies to all.
i was responding to jtompilots suggestion of using a tapered -shim- so assumed (yeah that word) that cushions would be replaced anyway.

 

[bradsh98]

Thanks, man. I imagine the job would be very difficult to do with uniformity on all 8 cuts without a properly set up miter saw.

You could use a miter saw, as some do. However, if your saw has any bit of run-out, or you don't have the rails properly fixtured, you will destroy a cushion, and potentially more.

Given my bad luck with the miter saw technique, I prefer to sand the rails, on a table saw. I set up guides and stops, so that every rail is cut exactly the same. All it takes are a few scraps of straight boards and a couple of clamps. You set it up for your first cut, and use the same set up for the rest. Of course, there are 4 different set ups for one set of rails.

If I am doing a full cushion replacement, I may use the miter saw to clean up the ends of the rails, unless I already have the table saw set up.

 

[boogieman]

You could use a miter saw, as some do. However, if your saw has any bit of run-out, or you don't have the rails properly fixtured, you will destroy a cushion, and potentially more.

Given my bad luck with the miter saw technique, I prefer to sand the rails, on a table saw. I set up guides and stops, so that every rail is cut exactly the same. All it takes are a few scraps of straight boards and a couple of clamps. You set it up for your first cut, and use the same set up for the rest. Of course, there are 4 different set ups for one set of rails.

If I am doing a full cushion replacement, I may use the miter saw to clean up the ends of the rails, unless I already have the table saw set up.

Good info there. I have a table saw and a miter saw. I wouldn't trust the miter saw to do any kind of precision work, it's a cheapie. I'll look into the table saw disc and work on some fixturing. Do you use the regular sanding discs for a table saw, or the kind with flaps on it? Any word on how course to use?