Olhausen rattle, is this a good fix?

bradsh98

Bradshaw Billiard Service
Gold Member
Silver Member
Good info there. I have a table saw and a miter saw. I wouldn't trust the miter saw to do any kind of precision work, it's a cheapie. I'll look into the table saw disc and work on some fixturing. Do you use the regular sanding discs for a table saw, or the kind with flaps on it? Any word on how course to use?
I use standard self-adhesive sanding discs. I purchase them from McMaster-Carr. I've tried everything from 40-120 grit. I tend to prefer 80 grit. 120 is too fine, and tends to clog with contact cement. 80 will as well, but you need to be careful. You could go with 60 grit, but it leaves a very coarse finish.
 

JZMechanix

www.billiardmechanix.net
Silver Member
I use a miter saw with great results and predictable, repeatable precision. Works well for me but there's more than 1 way to do a good job.
 

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bradsh98

Bradshaw Billiard Service
Gold Member
Silver Member
I use a miter saw with great results and predictable, repeatable precision. Works well for me but there's more than 1 way to do a good job.
As always Jack, beautiful work.
I've tried many times with a miter saw, but I cannot seem to correct the runout on my saw enough. I've torn up a number of cushions, doing trials. About mid-cut, the blade will grab the rubber, and tear things all to hell. I think that I'll have to invest in a new saw, if I'm ever going to make it work. Is yours a Makita?
I currently have a 12" Ridgid. Great saw for building decks. It will suffice for some finish carpentry. But, it severely lacks for fine woodworking.
 

JZMechanix

www.billiardmechanix.net
Silver Member
As always Jack, beautiful work.
I've tried many times with a miter saw, but I cannot seem to correct the runout on my saw enough. I've torn up a number of cushions, doing trials. About mid-cut, the blade will grab the rubber, and tear things all to hell. I think that I'll have to invest in a new saw, if I'm ever going to make it work. Is yours a Makita?
I currently have a 12" Ridgid. Great saw for building decks. It will suffice for some finish carpentry. But, it severely lacks for fine woodworking.
Yes... Makita 10" sliding compound miter saw. You need a good, sharp 80 tooth blade and I also spray the blade before each cut with dry lube spray. Go slow and say a little prayer and you'll be fine!
 

boogieman

It don't mean a thing if it ain't got that ping.
I've made the decision to sand the facings to a little better angle once I get them. It would be pretty silly to not try to help the issue since I have a table saw and can make a proper jig. No use having to recover the cushions multiple times. I'll have to get the calibration plate and sandpaper discs.

This little bugger is slightly over 145 degrees at the moment. I'm going to try to get as close to 141 as I can. I read 143 is the point where kick out starts getting bad, so I'll shoot to get under that. I'm trying to decide on thickness.

1/4 should get me close but not fully to 141 if I can trust my trig. 3/8 would get me there, but I'm wondering, how dead will that make the pockets? I've never really messed with shimmed tables and such so I don't have any frame of reference. Luckily the pockets have a generous mouth, at 5 1/8, so even if I go up to 3/8, I'm looking at 4 5/8". I'm kind of scared to make them that tight 😨 so I might just end up with 1/4 and get as close to the 141 without getting too thin.

Thanks again for all the advice, you guys are awesome!
 

bradsh98

Bradshaw Billiard Service
Gold Member
Silver Member
I've made the decision to sand the facings to a little better angle once I get them. It would be pretty silly to not try to help the issue since I have a table saw and can make a proper jig. No use having to recover the cushions multiple times. I'll have to get the calibration plate and sandpaper discs.

This little bugger is slightly over 145 degrees at the moment. I'm going to try to get as close to 141 as I can. I read 143 is the point where kick out starts getting bad, so I'll shoot to get under that. I'm trying to decide on thickness.

1/4 should get me close but not fully to 141 if I can trust my trig. 3/8 would get me there, but I'm wondering, how dead will that make the pockets? I've never really messed with shimmed tables and such so I don't have any frame of reference. Luckily the pockets have a generous mouth, at 5 1/8, so even if I go up to 3/8, I'm looking at 4 5/8". I'm kind of scared to make them that tight 😨 so I might just end up with 1/4 and get as close to the 141 without getting too thin.

Thanks again for all the advice, you guys are awesome!
I've used 3/8" facings. Sometimes, it's difficult to source 3/8" thick 50A durometer neoprene. I usually try to find it on Amazon. You will need a 2" wide by 3' strip, for one table. 60A durometer will work, but it will slightly deaden the pocket. However, it's not extreme, and you may not even notice.

Keep in mind, the facing is being installed at a compound angle. The installed width does not equate to the thickness of the material. When installed, the facing will actually be wider than the material thickness. What that means, is that your pocket will likely be smaller than 4 5/8". However, since you are sanding anyway, you can sand the facings down to your desired pocket opening. Just make sure that you measure several times, to make sure that you aren't going to far with your sanding.

If you need additional information on the setup and fixturing, feel free to ask.
 

boogieman

It don't mean a thing if it ain't got that ping.
I've used 3/8" facings. Sometimes, it's difficult to source 3/8" thick 50A durometer neoprene. I usually try to find it on Amazon. You will need a 2" wide by 3' strip, for one table. 60A durometer will work, but it will slightly deaden the pocket. However, it's not extreme, and you may not even notice.

Keep in mind, the facing is being installed at a compound angle. The installed width does not equate to the thickness of the material. When installed, the facing will actually be wider than the material thickness. What that means, is that your pocket will likely be smaller than 4 5/8". However, since you are sanding anyway, you can sand the facings down to your desired pocket opening. Just make sure that you measure several times, to make sure that you aren't going to far with your sanding.

If you need additional information on the setup and fixturing, feel free to ask.
Ah that makes sense, the facing would be at an angle so slightly tighter. I imagine I'll post some "pre op" pictures to see if the setup looks ok. It's gonna be awhile before I do the actual job, still trying to gather supplies and get everything in order. Thanks for the info on the facing material.
 

boogieman

It don't mean a thing if it ain't got that ping.
So one more question, I'm sourcing supplies now, what's the proper cement to bond the facings to the rails? I've heard of Barge cement being used but just wanted to ask the experts if this is the correct product.
 

bradsh98

Bradshaw Billiard Service
Gold Member
Silver Member
So one more question, I'm sourcing supplies now, what's the proper cement to bond the facings to the rails? I've heard of Barge cement being used but just wanted to ask the experts if this is the correct product.
Usually, we use a standard contact cement. Barge cement, 3M-10, Parabond, RKC250, Weldwood.. Any will do. However, if you will be sanding the facing thinner than maybe 1/8", you may want to opt for cyanoacrylate (super glue), as a safety measure. This is not the preferred method, as it makes future replacement of the facings more difficult. Also, the CA will harden the joint. When you sand the facing too thin, the heat will weaken the contact cement, and cause the bond to fail. Just take your time, and you should be fine.
 

boogieman

It don't mean a thing if it ain't got that ping.
An update and important question:

The angles, without facings are inconsistent. Some nitwit must have had the chop saw set incorrectly. 😠

End rail number 1: Right end (holding wood towards me, rubber away)is 142.3 degrees, left is is 145.4.
End rail 2: Right end is 142.4, left is 145.4.

So around 3 degrees difference between sides on a single end rail, both rails. I'm going to go out on a limb and assume the whole table is like this, all right sides are probably 142, all left 145. So what's the solution? I want them consistent, should I take them all to the same angle (145ish) before attempting to put facings?

I'm assuming starting with 3 degrees difference will effect play. I could adjust consistency and make the angle right with the facing, but then the thickness varies on each facing. I want the table to play as good as I can get it without doing subrail extensions or new cushions. If it's better to just make the difference with the facing, I can probably deal with the inconsistent rebound if the angles are the same. It's not great but it has to be better than it is now with wildly different angles lol.

I already knew it but I'm getting a new respect for table mechanics. I can handle the situation but would definitely appreciate any advice. 😓
 

bradsh98

Bradshaw Billiard Service
Gold Member
Silver Member
An update and important question:

The angles, without facings are inconsistent. Some nitwit must have had the chop saw set incorrectly. 😠

End rail number 1: Right end (holding wood towards me, rubber away)is 142.3 degrees, left is is 145.4.
End rail 2: Right end is 142.4, left is 145.4.

So around 3 degrees difference between sides on a single end rail, both rails. I'm going to go out on a limb and assume the whole table is like this, all right sides are probably 142, all left 145. So what's the solution? I want them consistent, should I take them all to the same angle (145ish) before attempting to put facings?

I'm assuming starting with 3 degrees difference will effect play. I could adjust consistency and make the angle right with the facing, but then the thickness varies on each facing. I want the table to play as good as I can get it without doing subrail extensions or new cushions. If it's better to just make the difference with the facing, I can probably deal with the inconsistent rebound if the angles are the same. It's not great but it has to be better than it is now with wildly different angles lol.

I already knew it but I'm getting a new respect for table mechanics. I can handle the situation but would definitely appreciate any advice.😓
You have a couple of options...

You could try to correct the angles before installing facings. However, this will remove quite a bit of material from the end of the rail, at the back of the pocket. Not exactly preferred, as the finished product will look bad.

Alternatively, and what I might suggest: sand the installed facings to the correct angle (141). This will require the use of a thick facing (probably 3/8"), so that you have enough thickness at the back of the pocket.
 

rexus31

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
You have a couple of options...

You could try to correct the angles before installing facings. However, this will remove quite a bit of material from the end of the rail, at the back of the pocket. Not exactly preferred, as the finished product will look bad.

Alternatively, and what I might suggest: sand the installed facings to the correct angle (141). This will require the use of a thick facing (probably 3/8"), so that you have enough thickness at the back of the pocket.

Is it possible to make up 4.4 degrees with one 3/8" facing and have the pocket symmetrical?
 

bradsh98

Bradshaw Billiard Service
Gold Member
Silver Member
Is it possible to make up 4.4 degrees with one 3/8" facing and have the pocket symmetrical?
I believe so. Just understand that the thickness of each facing will be tapered, and will vary from pocket to pocket. I wouldn't sand it any thinner than 1/8", at the thinnest point.
 

boogieman

It don't mean a thing if it ain't got that ping.
I believe so. Just understand that the thickness of each facing will be tapered, and will vary from pocket to pocket. I wouldn't sand it any thinner than 1/8", at the thinnest point.
Thanks! I'll go this route. In an ideal world the facings would be the same thickness, but this table isn't ideal lol. I have some 3/8" facings, I'll see what I can do, being careful to get the finished angle the same. I was honestly floored when I saw a 3 degree difference between the cuts. This is the anniversary model, the rest of the table looks and performs great, I guess it's just another strike against furniture tables. I know I'd never let a table leave my factory with such cuts, it's even the anniversary model, which makes it even stranger at the lack of pride in the finished product. It makes a lot more sense why this table plays so weird at the pockets. o_O
 

rexus31

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Thanks! I'll go this route. In an ideal world the facings would be the same thickness, but this table isn't ideal lol. I have some 3/8" facings, I'll see what I can do, being careful to get the finished angle the same. I was honestly floored when I saw a 3 degree difference between the cuts. This is the anniversary model, the rest of the table looks and performs great, I guess it's just another strike against furniture tables. I know I'd never let a table leave my factory with such cuts, it's even the anniversary model, which makes it even stranger at the lack of pride in the finished product. It makes a lot more sense why this table plays so weird at the pockets. o_O

Good luck! Please post up your progress! Take your time and I'm sure it will be an improvement.
 

realkingcobra

Well-known member
Silver Member
I'm not attempting to change the angle with shims, or with anything, but I understood a 3/16" 60 durometer neoprene kept the soft accufast cushions from rejecting balls as much. The stock facings are 1/8". I'm not concerned with the angle or the 1/8" tighter that the pockets would be if it stopped some bounce out/pocket rattle. Again, I understand that the pocket angle is one of the issues, but I also have read that the thicker and harder neoprene reduces the rattle caused by the soft cushions.

I've scoured old threads here, google etc. I was hoping someone had knowledge if it is in fact true that switching 1/8" stock Olhausen facings with 3/16" 60 durometer neoprene would help with SOME of the rattle problem.

I'm not trying to sound like an ass or anything, but it's this one specific question that is in bold. I do appreciate the replies so far.
 

realkingcobra

Well-known member
Silver Member
I'm not attempting to change the angle with shims, or with anything, but I understood a 3/16" 60 durometer neoprene kept the soft accufast cushions from rejecting balls as much. The stock facings are 1/8". I'm not concerned with the angle or the 1/8" tighter that the pockets would be if it stopped some bounce out/pocket rattle. Again, I understand that the pocket angle is one of the issues, but I also have read that the thicker and harder neoprene reduces the rattle caused by the soft cushions.

I've scoured old threads here, google etc. I was hoping someone had knowledge if it is in fact true that switching 1/8" stock Olhausen facings with 3/16" 60 durometer neoprene would help with SOME of the rattle problem.

I'm not trying to sound like an ass or anything, but it's this one specific question that is in bold. I do appreciate the replies so far.
I'm the one who posted the 3/16" facing change in the first place, YES it'll fix 90% of the ball rattle!!!!
 

realkingcobra

Well-known member
Silver Member
I've used 3/8" facings. Sometimes, it's difficult to source 3/8" thick 50A durometer neoprene. I usually try to find it on Amazon. You will need a 2" wide by 3' strip, for one table. 60A durometer will work, but it will slightly deaden the pocket. However, it's not extreme, and you may not even notice.

Keep in mind, the facing is being installed at a compound angle. The installed width does not equate to the thickness of the material. When installed, the facing will actually be wider than the material thickness. What that means, is that your pocket will likely be smaller than 4 5/8". However, since you are sanding anyway, you can sand the facings down to your desired pocket opening. Just make sure that you measure several times, to make sure that you aren't going to far with your sanding.

If you need additional information on the setup and fixturing, feel free to ask.
3/8" + 3/8" facings equal 3/4" plus the angle width of another 50% = 3/8" total pocket closure is 1 1/8" from original opening, so 5 1/8" pockets turn out to be 4" minus the original 1/8" facings, totaling 1/8" + 1/8" + angle width of 50%=1/8" total opening change is 3/8" added back to the 4" for an overall pocket opening of 4 3/8"!!
 
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