On-Line Gambling Story

av84fun

Banned
Since the story regarding on-line gambling legislation is the certerpiece of KT's excuses, I thought I would comment on that aspect separately.

First, as has been often pointed out to everyone (except KT apparently) the new law didn't ban on-line gambling in the U.S. because that practice was already illegal. It merely banned credit card companies (and similar payors) from making payments to gambling entities.

THE BILL WAS NO SURPRISE. Everyone on the planet knew about it and knew that it would be passed. The only question was one of exact TIMING and...therefore...how much more money could be fleeced out of the pockets of U. S. citizens before the hammer came down.

Because of that issue, people were willing to bet that the bill wouldn't be passed for X length of time thereby generating X more billions of dollars worth of profit to the companies.

But NO ONE with a double digit IQ...and certainly not Stanley Ho, ever labored under the blatant misconception that
A. On-line gambling was LEGAL in the U.S. or
B. The payment ban would not be passed relatively soon.

As for the "70%" decline in on-line gaming stock prices KT referenced, that was largely not true.

Remember that in any group of public companies there are the strong, viable entities and there are the weak, "false premise" or HYPE stocks. And that is true for the numerous public on-line gaming stocks around the world. (none in the U.S. of course) But the ones that caved in by 70% were JUNK to begin with.

Here is an excerpt from a MSN story about one of the LEADING companies in that group....

"What were the odds of that? The online gambling industry--which rakes in billions from U.S. bettors via companies traded on the London Stock Exchange--rolled snake eyes in July. David Carruthers, CEO of U.K.-based BetOnSports, was arrested during a layover in Dallas en route to his company's facilities in Costa Rica. Carruthers and 10 of his colleagues were hit with a 22-count indictment including fraud and racketeering charges; the feds also got a restraining order preventing the firm from accepting Americans' wagers. News of the arrest, which came just six days after the House of Representatives approved a bill banning the use of credit cards to fund betting accounts, spooked investors in London: BetOnSports stock immediately fell 17 percent, helping to spur a decline in Britain's bellwether FTSE 100 index."

As you will note, although "seventeen" SOUNDS LIKE "seventy" those percentages are actually quite different!!!! (-:

The "new law" excuse is just simply preposterous. As Mr. Carrithers now knows quite well YOU CANNOT RUN AN UNLICENSED GAMBLING OPERATION IN THE UNITED STATES REGARDLESS OF HOW YOUR CUSTOMERS PAY YOU...I.E. CREDIT CARDS, CHECKS OR CASH!!

Regards,
Jim

http://money.cnn.com/magazines/business2/business2_archive/2006/09/01/8384350/index.htm
 
btw: I got this statement:
"The first fallout from this legislative bombshell was its impact on the major internet gambling companies who lost half their stock market value."

From this article I linked to here a couple of weeks ago http://www.mises.org/story/2358
 
November 18, 2005: H.R. 4411 (Internet Gambling Prohibition and Enforcement Act) introduced.

Nov 30- Dec 4, 2005: IPT King of the Hill takes place. Players paid.

February 16, 2006: H. R. 4777 (Internet Gambling Prohibition Act) introduced.

July 1, 2006: H. R. 4411 passed House, amended.

July 10, 2006: H. R. 4777 is reported to the House, amended.
H. Res. 907: Providing for consideration of the bill (H.R. 4411) to prevent the use of certain payment instruments, credit cards, and fund transfers for unlawful Internet gambling.

July 11, 2006: Republican leaders decided to fold H.R. 4777 into H. R. 4411 for floor action on July 13, 2006.

July 13, 2006: After H. R. 4777 (Internet Gambling Prohibition Act) is folded into H. R. 4411 (Internet Gambling Prohibition and Enforcement Act), the amended H. R. 4411 is read the second and third time on the floor and placed on Senate Legislative Calendar for vote. The bill is now officially approved by the House of Representatives and must be voted on by the Senate.

July 22-30: IPT NA Open takes place. Players are paid.

September 2-10: IPT World Open takes place. Players are not paid.
The bill has not become law yet. How can Trudeau say a bill that hasn’t even been sent to the President is the reason the players didn’t get paid? If it came out of nowhere, he still wouldn’t have known about it at this point.


September 14, 2006: This bill passed in the Senate by roll call vote. The totals were: 98 Ayes, 0 Nays, 2 Present/Not Voting.

September 22, 2006: Congress has approved the Act and it is placed on the Union Calendar for Executive Branch consideration.

October 13, 2006: President Bush signs the law making it Public Law 109-347. The Act is title VIII of a completely unrelated bill, the Safe Port Act, HR 4954, dealing with port security. He makes no mention of title VIII as he signs the new law.

The law doesn’t make online gaming illegal in the US anymore than it already was. The reason Party Poker and other stocks tanked was because of speculation, not because of this law.

BTW, as a result of his company filing for Chapter 11 Protection, in May of 2005 Donald Trump relinquished his CEO position.

I hope the readers of this forum are clear about KT’s newest round of BS.
 
PartyPoker was a major sponser and now partypoker is not allowing any users from the US. That is a very valid excuse.
 
Then he should say that. Instead, he blames it on a law that wasn't even around when the World Open ended and it was time to pay the players.
 
TX Poolnut said:
Then he should say that. Instead, he blames it on a law that wasn't even around when the World Open ended and it was time to pay the players.

His claim, I believe, was that monies were first held up due to near settled discussions with Mr.Ho. During these ongoing discussions the new legislation came into place which threw a spanner in the works.

That is a feasible explanation so far as I can understand.

It does not excuse the breaking of promises, though it may go part way to explaining them.

btw: The new legislation does seriously impact the way US citizens can gamble online, though it does so indirectly via laws on banking transactions as I understand. The net effect is similar to a ban on online gambling.

Colin
 
Don't Put Me In The Deep Fryer....please

btw: The new legislation does seriously impact the way US citizens can gamble online, though it does so indirectly via laws on banking transactions as I understand. The net effect is similar to a ban on online gambling.
Colin


LOL... the suckers have the habit BAD and will still require their daily 'fix' of online poker. I have prepared for this with KT like clarity. Even though most poker sites will give a player $1,000 in Play Money daily, the Donkeys quickly lose it. So, I am prepared to sell off my $555,000 in Play Money on Ultimate Bet for "FACE VALUE".....
Doug
( I'm rolling in dough )
 
Smorgass Bored said:
btw: The new legislation does seriously impact the way US citizens can gamble online, though it does so indirectly via laws on banking transactions as I understand. The net effect is similar to a ban on online gambling.
Colin


LOL... the suckers have the habit BAD and will still require their daily 'fix' of online poker. I have prepared for this with KT like clarity. Even though most poker sites will give a player $1,000 in Play Money daily, the Donkeys quickly lose it. So, I am prepared to sell off my $555,000 in Play Money on Ultimate Bet for "FACE VALUE".....
Doug
( I'm rolling in dough )

Doug,

That sounds like a very good deal. How about you accept payments?
 
MnShooter...<<PartyPoker was a major sponser and now partypoker is not allowing any users from the US. That is a very valid excuse.>>

I don't think so...mostly for the reasons I already cited so will not repeat them...except to say that PartyPoker and the other majors are still VERY much in business and therefore, on-line gambling is still a vary huge and viable business.

If there might be any interest in gambling on pool matches on-line (and I don't know whether there is or is not such a market) it would be potentially a HUGE market outside the U.S. and therefore should not have killed any deal measured in a few tens of millions of dollars...which is what we are talking about to sustain the IPT under a rational businessplan.

But remember, KT is the same person who said POINT BLANK that he was sure of selling the IPT for ONE HUNDRED FIFTY MILLION DOLLARS...which was a preposterous assumption then and now...with and without U.S. participation.

Regards,
Jim
 
Smorgass Bored said:
btw: The new legislation does seriously impact the way US citizens can gamble online, though it does so indirectly via laws on banking transactions as I understand. The net effect is similar to a ban on online gambling.
Colin


LOL... the suckers have the habit BAD and will still require their daily 'fix' of online poker. I have prepared for this with KT like clarity. Even though most poker sites will give a player $1,000 in Play Money daily, the Donkeys quickly lose it. So, I am prepared to sell off my $555,000 in Play Money on Ultimate Bet for "FACE VALUE".....
Doug
( I'm rolling in dough )
The stock holders are not laughing I can guarantee you. Though they would perhaps laugh at your flipant rebutal.

One of my concerns is that this forum, which I believe to be the best source of information for many people who really require it, is unwilling to consider that speculation about certain information coming from the IPT, could actually be true in some cases.

At least we should support one's right to provide evidence or arguments present possibilities.

There is a trend for some arguments to take the stance that any points made by the IPT to are false, based on some previous past statements having been false. And these generally go uncritiqued for fear of being branded a traitor to the mob.

I believe the truth of this situation will not be realized efficiently this way.

It's easy to just dismiss everything the IPT says as false, but it's likely that people will be making decisions on what is and what is not true. And I think it is the responsibility of those concerned to use their truth filters with eyes open as widely as possible. To try to assertain what parts are true and to what degree.

Else, the tendency toward mob rule here will continue.

For those who can't read, this is not a statement in defense of the IPT. It is a call for open mindedness of opinion regarding the examination of finding what is true and what isn't.

Colin
 
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Colin, I'm On YOUR Side

For those who can't read, this is not a statement in defense of the IPT. It is a call for open mindedness of opinion regarding the examination of finding what is true and what isn't.
Colin



Not only am I open-minded, but my mind is completely Blank.
Doug
( just be gentle with me )
 
Conlin...I support and agree that voices of reason are to be encouraged...and I fully understand that you are not offering your full and unqualifed support for KT/IPT.

Having said that, I think it is not unfair to doubt...and in fact, is healthy to doubt pronouncements from a man that have been preceded not by just a few untruths but quite literally an entire CAREER of untruths, criminal conduct and false promises.

I especially believe that doubt is not unfair when, imbedded in the most recent pronouncements are at least SOME propositions that are untrue on their face.

In short...KT has made his bed and it is now quite proper for him to sleep in it.

Regards,
Jim
 
Colin Colenso said:
The stock holders are not laughing I can guarantee you. Though they would perhaps laugh at your flipant rebutal.

One of my concerns is that this forum, which I believe to be the best source of information for many people who really require it, is unwilling to consider that speculation about certain information coming from the IPT, could actually be true in some cases.

At least we should support one's right to provide evidence or arguments present possibilities.

There is a trend for some arguments to take the stance that any points made by the IPT to are false, based on some previous past statements having been false. And these generally go uncritiqued for fear of being branded a traitor to the mob.

I believe the truth of this situation will not be realized efficiently this way.

It's easy to just dismiss everything the IPT says as false, but it's likely that people will be making decisions on what is and what is not true. And I think it is the responsibility of those concerned to use their truth filters with eyes open as widely as possible. To try to assertain what parts are true and to what degree.

Else, the tendency toward mob rule here will continue.

For those who can't read, this is not a statement in defense of the IPT. It is a call for open mindedness of opinion regarding the examination of finding what is true and what isn't.

Colin

I hear ya but it really is sad that we have to "examine" their statements to try to find something true. If they told the truth from the beginning, we wouldnt be having this discussion at all.

One thing that i have found from life's experience is that someone willing to tell a blatant lie even once, under anything but a life threatening situation or thereabouts, uses lies as a part of their everyday living arsenal and you are best advised to get them out of your life as quickly as possible. There really are Jon Lovitz types out there-plenty of them and they NEVER stop.

I suppose some truths may be in there but without verification, nothing can be relied on IMHO.
 
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av84fun said:
Conlin...I support and agree that voices of reason are to be encouraged...and I fully understand that you are not offering your full and unqualifed support for KT/IPT.

Having said that, I think it is not unfair to doubt...and in fact, is healthy to doubt pronouncements from a man that have been preceded not by just a few untruths but quite literally an entire CAREER of untruths, criminal conduct and false promises.

I especially believe that doubt is not unfair when, imbedded in the most recent pronouncements are at least SOME propositions that are untrue on their face.

In short...KT has made his bed and it is now quite proper for him to sleep in it.

Regards,
Jim
Certainly Jim,
If one feels some statement or development is evidence of impending bankcrupty or some other bad news, they should surely present their arguments here to try to support their opinion.

It's getting close to the truth that counts, however dark or bright it may be.

Colin
 
Nostroke said:
I hear ya but it really is sad that we have to "examine" their statements to try to find something true. If they told the truth from the beginning, we wouldnt be having this discussion at all.

One thing that i have found from life's experience is that someone willing to tell a blatant lie even once, under anything but a life threatening situation or thereabouts, uses lies as a part of their everyday living arsenal and you are best advised to get them out of your life as quickly as possible. There really are Jon Lovitz types out there-plenty of them and they NEVER stop.

I suppose some truths may be in there but without verification, nothing can be relied on IMHO.
That is part of an argument, and we see witness testimony thrown out based on a proven lack of credibility. It provides fair reason to doubt.

But doubt alone does not get us far, except into a more cautious state.

I've known the lying types you mention. Few fortunately. In most dealings they tell the truth, for there is a natural incentive for successful mutual cooperation by telling the truth. But yes, most eventually let you down.

Colin
 
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Smorgass Bored said:
For those who can't read, this is not a statement in defense of the IPT. It is a call for open mindedness of opinion regarding the examination of finding what is true and what isn't.
Colin



Not only am I open-minded, but my mind is completely Blank.
Doug
( just be gentle with me )
Doug,
Your levity is often appreciated:D

btw: I don't think there are two sides here. Basically one side trying to figure out what to think and what to do.

Most all posters, I respect for their integrity and appreciate their contributions.

I just hope not to be manoevered into an anti-naysayers political category.:eek: :p

Colin
 
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