On the road from 69 -85

Thanks for the info.

This thread prompted me to look again for information on Pic given what I had heard. He didn't seem to come up when I read things about organized crime and gambling in Denver. One reporter wrote a book on it and Pic was never mentioned per the index. This time I found a little bit but there still wasn't a lot on him. Looks like he was born in 1922 and died in 2001. A possible address was on a quiet street on the northwest side - the "old neighborhood". Death notice from then indicated he played 3C.

I think he led an interesting life.
 
I did on the 2nd floor; I loved that Cafeteria downstairs! The Chefs in the tall Chef hats slicing, roast beef, ham and turkey, it was all Great!

I believe I've won more money playing 3C than anyone in the USA!

An excerpt from my Book/DVD's, "The Concise Book of Position Play."

Secrets of a 3 Cushion Billiard Hustler​

I have to confess I’ve probably won more money from 1968-2000 than anyone in the US playing 3 cushion billiards. One of my first victims was a celebrity, Milton Berle, $30.00 which he promptly stiffed me, his excuse, “hey kid, you think I would have taken your money”, I was 19.

Though out my career I’ve played for $2.00 a game up to $90,000.00 a game and I’m here to tell you there’s no difference. It all depends on your lifestyle and circumstances. If you’re broke, the $2.00 game looks like a million. If you’re flush, the $90,000.00 feels like a deuce. It’s all relative.

Playing in tournaments and playing billiards for money (gambling) are two different unique experiences. In a tournament you usually get to play the same opponent once maybe twice and there is usually a time span between those games, so you don’t get a real feel for your opponent’s strengths and weaknesses. Playing for money you’re playing the same opponent game after game so the player can calculate what kind of game their involved in. You don’t have to worry about average, how safe you play, or how long you take on every shot. The main objective is to WIN THE GAME, especially when you’re playing for money out of your pocket.

When a better player gives a handicap to a weaker player in terms of points on the wire, the first objective for the giving player is to, make up those points and get control of the game. I’ve seen many players’ do just the opposite, they start out by playing safe to catch up, and you need points to catch up. Once the better player has caught up, then they can try to control the rest of the game by playing position and by using shot-safeties.

When playing a player of equal strength, try to be somewhat intimidating in the early stages. I’ve beaten many better players on paper because they couldn’t repel my constant aggressive play and timely safety play. You must have a persona of total confidence in your game. If your opponent senses any weakness and if their smart, they will use it to their advantage. This is very important, “You don’t always have to play your best to win, but you do have to play your smartest!"
Bill, love reading your posts.
Could you please post what you as a 3C player would consider a safety (a diagram shot maybe?). Going off of the "my constant aggressive play and timely safety play."

Like watching the game, just never thought of safeties, just missed points.
 
Bill, love reading your posts.
Could you please post what you as a 3C player would consider a safety (a diagram shot maybe?). Going off of the "my constant aggressive play and timely safety play."

Like watching the game, just never thought of safeties, just missed points.
u12, here's a 'typical safety' position that would be before fast heated tables.

Goodsafetypositiond.jpg


During those years I had an advantage when faced with position.
Not only was I able to make the, 'across table short' (long, long, short) when several top players couldn't. Mainly because they
didn't know how to play it correctly, meaning many applied 'reverse English' (3 or 4 O'clock). Minimizing the angle to approach the 3rd ball to score the point.

The Correct way to play it is with extreme running English (8 or 7 O'clock) so when the CB contacts the 2nd rail the reverse English flattens CB's angle into the 3rd cushion providing a shallower angle towards the OB.

I've always had a Very good stroke; I produced the Most amount of effect on the CB with the least amount of effort. I got so good at this shot I developed a method of playing 'position' from this difficult position.
This was Not easy to do back in the day! Now days, with the faster cloths it's a little easier.

Goodsafetypositiond-solution.jpg
 
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played george a bunch of times when i hung around billings. i think i played paul as well but not sure but i beat a guy for a few grand one day and that was the only time i saw him.

frank always asked me to go with him down to the big horn fishing, which when they first opened it up below the dam it was the best trout fishing in the country. soon it got spoiled.
but i wanted to get him down on a game that was short and fast as he played so slow it was punishment. never really got to take him off for much.
the big action in town was cards. high stakes poker every day and giant gin rummy games where up to a hundred thousand might change hands in a session.

i wish i learned 3c better back then as there were some great scores but you had to play well. i didnt but just above average for a pool room gambler. my high run on the old slow tables was 8 back then. but since there wasnt much gambling at it i could stall and get big spots or trick games from the house champs and take them off.
 
played george a bunch of times when i hung around billings. i think i played paul as well but not sure but i beat a guy for a few grand one day and that was the only time i saw him.

frank always asked me to go with him down to the big horn fishing, which when they first opened it up below the dam it was the best trout fishing in the country. soon it got spoiled.
but i wanted to get him down on a game that was short and fast as he played so slow it was punishment. never really got to take him off for much.
the big action in town was cards. high stakes poker every day and giant gin rummy games where up to a hundred thousand might change hands in a session.

i wish i learned 3c better back then as there were some great scores but you had to play well. i didnt but just above average for a pool room gambler. my high run on the old slow tables was 8 back then. but since there wasnt much gambling at it i could stall and get big spots or trick games from the house champs and take them off.
Maha, 8 is a respectable run for any player!

I also play poker and Gin in town. In the poker game, I recall I wasn't the only player at the table with a pistol.
 
bill, that's a tough shot. but with the cue ball closer to you or the red nearer to the other corner i used to use right center or high and dive into the short rail where the red was.
was this always wrong as i thought it was too hard, at least for me to get the ball on your path.
 
This video is from Chapter 10 of my Book/DVD's, "The Concise Book of Position Play."

It demonstrates how I took a medium safety position and turned into my advantage by playing position from these positions.

 
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might have played with you. we had 100/200 to 300/600 limit holdem games and limit seven razz.
on many days some days it didnt go and played smaller still large for those days.
 
might have played with you. we had 100/200 to 300/600 limit holdem games and limit seven razz.
on many days some days it didnt go and played smaller still large for those days.
If the red ball is off the short rail around the 1st diamond on the other side, I play pretty full ball and make the CB walk slowly across the table with Max 3 O'clock English so the CB maintains the English on All 3 cushions.
 
Bill, the sights on that table diagram you are using are misplaced -- uneven distances between some of them and corner sights in wrong positions.
 
To put it simply, "He played 3C like a 'Pool Player." Just trying to score 1 point at a time, with elementary safety knowledge and not much regard for proper speed on certain shots. Three cushion is the Best game to stall/lemon, but Only if you're a Very good player to begin with.

If he would have had a bigger BR, the final games would have been giving him12 on 25.

Laughing about ye ol' stall and letting the game out little by little as the money got right. Standard MO but it could be hilarious when both sides were stalling and hustling. Back before the internet exploded a stranger came to my small town. He won the first few games with a golden break, then I took over. Funny thing, after a few games I started stalling a little to be sure I kept him on the table. I had never heard of Johnny Archer.(grin)

Hu
 
Laughing about ye ol' stall and letting the game out little by little as the money got right. Standard MO but it could be hilarious when both sides were stalling and hustling. Back before the internet exploded a stranger came to my small town. He won the first few games with a golden break, then I took over. Funny thing, after a few games I started stalling a little to be sure I kept him on the table. I had never heard of Johnny Archer.(grin)

Hu
Some guys can't come 'Off the stall' once they start! LOL!
 
Some guys can't come 'Off the stall' once they start! LOL!


The disrespect would make me angry when somebody thought they had to stall to get me to play them. Soon we would have a double stall going with both of us trying to force the other to win!(grin) It didn't take long to be blatantly obvious to a decent player and we would get down to business.

Hu
 
Bill, I read your story about playing in Denver. Really a good read.

The pool room across from the street from the capitol was apply named Capitol Billiards. In August 1967, right before I went into the Navy, I spent about 6 weeks in Denver (age 18 - turned 19 Oct 1). I played some guy there for $10 a game, paying off after every game. I think that I came out about 6 games ahead. In the newspaper a week or 2 later, there was a picture of him in handcuffs being led down the steps of the capitol for counterfeit $10 bills.

I also beat the houseman on another day playing 9-ball. BUT, he got his money back playing 3-cushion billiards. My only time playing and gambling at 3-cushion. Probably the same table that you played on. I think that is cool. A kid from Texas playing on the same table that you played on. (I went to Denver with my best friend who was enrolled in a technical school there.)

An a side note, was it Hollywood Bowl in Denver where they had a lot of action ? One night I was there beating one or two shooters. One of them told me not to play this old man who would come in after the bars closed. Turns out, it was Omaha Fats, Martin Kaimer. Well, we played a while and broke even. After that he took me around in his new black Cadillac convertible to try to make a few bucks. Don't remember if we ever made a score.
Found out later that Marty was a disabled veteran.

I will tell you that Marty could shoot as good as anyone one-handed. Saw him shoot several spot shots jacked up and draw the cue ball to the rail.
 
Part 2

When I went to the “Corner Pocket,” I went in by myself, I knew what day, (Friday night), and time, about 10:00 pm that Smitto came in every week, also the table He liked to play on, right in front of the counter. I was on it already hitting balls in 8 ball, He came in and saw someone on his table, and asked me, “you just practicing, or would you like to play some?” “Ok, what do you want to play?” He said,”6 ball,” I told him, “I never played 6 ball, is it like 9 ball?” “Yes. But faster, since we don’t’ have much time to play.” So, we decided to play for $10.00 a ball, pay after every game, I’m the stranger! We raised the bet to, $20.00 after about an hour, about 12:30 am, they started to clean up the poolroom. When we quit, I was about $850.00 winner, and could still see he still had a knot that would choke a horse on him. So, I asked, “Is there was any bar or room that stays open to continue playing, since you’re stuck,” “I have a couple of tables at my house, we can play there.” I looked at him sort of funny, and he said, “Don’t worry everyone knows me around the state!” He looked towards George for the nod, George speaks right up and says, “Are you kidding, this guy’s as good as gold, He’s the biggest electrical contractor in the state of Montana!”

I follow him to his home, a mansion, just beautiful! WE go down to the basement, I already knew what to expect! Pool table, billiard and ping pong table. He says, “I don’t think I can beat you playing pool, I’ll play you some 3 cushion.” I reply, “Are you kidding me, I don’t know the first thing about that, “old man’s” game!” “Besides, I don’t even know all the rules! ““If you don’t want to play some more 6 ball, I’m leaving!” He says, “Hit some balls on the table, maybe I’ll make a game with you.” I stalled with the “open hand” bridge, like in the pool game. After a dozen shots, the guy was convinced I couldn’t play a lick. He says, “I’ll give you 2 points going to 10,” “no way, I need 5 and the break!” We agree on, just 5 points on 10, for $300.00 a game pay after every game. We jockey back and forth for the first few games, He’s one game winner and asked to raise the bet to, $500.00, I said, “OK, this billiards takes too long anyway!”

By 4:00 am in the morning, We’re playing for a $1,000.00 a game and I’m only getting 2 on 10, and I’m about, $9,000.00 winners, after another 5 games, he runs out of cash in his pocket, but, still wants to keep playing. He tells me, he has more money in the safe, and gets another $10.000.00 out!
Now the Sun’s coming up outside, it’s about, 7:00am,and it’s Saturday, and He’s lost the other 10 dimes, but He’s steaming now, he can’t quit, and by now , I’m only getting the break going to 10 points. I’m about, $20.000.00 winners and the guy wont’ quit, I F***en couldn’t believe it! He’s out of cash, but, still wants to play, He says, “If I lose, I’ll write a check for it, my checks are good as GOLD!” I said, “listen Smitto, we been playing for 9 straight hours, I’m not use to this, we have to set a time limit.” I’ll tell you what I’ll do, since you’re stuck, I’ll play some till 9:00 am, (when the banks open on Saturday), and We’ll play even for $3,000.00 a game, this way you may have a chance to win some money back!” He says, “OK, that’s fair enough.”

Well, 8:30 rolls along and He’s stuck another, $21,000.00! I say, “Smitto, I’m exhausted, let’s quit, you’re not going to get your money back this way, He adamantly says, “NO, give me 2 points and we’ll play till 9 am, I promise. Meanwhile, what I didn’t realize is that, Smitto, every time he went to get a drink, He was popping, “Benny’s,” and just couldn’t stop! Need I elaborate on the final outcome, Smitto lost, a check for $30.000.00 on top of the, $19,000.00 in cash!

He writes out the check, and it dawns on me, it’s Saturday, the inside bank most likely won’t be open. Now, I’m a little worried, I ask Smitto, “Is the inside bank open today, it’s Saturday?” He says, “NO,” ONLY the drive thru.” Now, I thought to myself, “They’re NOT going to cash this BIG check at the drive-thru window, NO way!” I knew if I waited till Monday, someone would wake him up when he came off the pills. I said again, “Smitto, are you sure they’ll cash it at the drive-thru!” “I’m going to call them right now.” He did, I left and went to the bank, put my ID and check in the tube and sent it away. A few minutes later teller says, “Mr. Smith,” I said to myself, “Here we go, He stopped the check already.” “Do you have another form of ID?” I sent in my SS card, 5 minutes later here comes one tube with my ID’s and a stack of hundreds and then another tube with a stack of hundreds and a, “Thank you!” I met up with Harold at the Hotel, we cut up the money, went to sleep, woke up, got a couple of chicks and partied! Harold and I went on the road together for 25 years.

A funny ending to this story, years later, when I more or less stopped going around the country hustling, I was playing in a huge international 3C tournament in NYC. At Abel Caulderon’s room in Queens, first time I met Sang Lee, he finished second. I had just finished playing the Belgian Champion at the time, Marin Spoormans, I won the game and had the high run of the tournament 16. After the match, a tall lanky older guy with a not so good grey-haired rug, but, with a gorgeous young blonde on his arm. He says to me, “good to see you again after all these years, “can you sign my program?” I ask, “What’s your name?” He says, “make it out to Paul,” you want your last name too.” “Instead, just make it out to, “Smitto!” I take a closer look at the guy and yell out, “SMITTO!” Didn’t recognize him with the rug, we laughed together about the past. His parting words to me were, “You taught me a VERY valuable lesson, that I was only a BIG fish in a LITTLE pond!” “And I can see you certainly know this game, good luck in the FINALS!”

Remembering the good old Hustling days!
Awesome!! Stories like this are amazing to read.
 
Part 2

When I went to the “Corner Pocket,” I went in by myself, I knew what day, (Friday night), and time, about 10:00 pm that Smitto came in every week, also the table He liked to play on, right in front of the counter. I was on it already hitting balls in 8 ball, He came in and saw someone on his table, and asked me, “you just practicing, or would you like to play some?” “Ok, what do you want to play?” He said,”6 ball,” I told him, “I never played 6 ball, is it like 9 ball?” “Yes. But faster, since we don’t’ have much time to play.” So, we decided to play for $10.00 a ball, pay after every game, I’m the stranger! We raised the bet to, $20.00 after about an hour, about 12:30 am, they started to clean up the poolroom. When we quit, I was about $850.00 winner, and could still see he still had a knot that would choke a horse on him. So, I asked, “Is there was any bar or room that stays open to continue playing, since you’re stuck,” “I have a couple of tables at my house, we can play there.” I looked at him sort of funny, and he said, “Don’t worry everyone knows me around the state!” He looked towards George for the nod, George speaks right up and says, “Are you kidding, this guy’s as good as gold, He’s the biggest electrical contractor in the state of Montana!”

I follow him to his home, a mansion, just beautiful! WE go down to the basement, I already knew what to expect! Pool table, billiard and ping pong table. He says, “I don’t think I can beat you playing pool, I’ll play you some 3 cushion.” I reply, “Are you kidding me, I don’t know the first thing about that, “old man’s” game!” “Besides, I don’t even know all the rules! ““If you don’t want to play some more 6 ball, I’m leaving!” He says, “Hit some balls on the table, maybe I’ll make a game with you.” I stalled with the “open hand” bridge, like in the pool game. After a dozen shots, the guy was convinced I couldn’t play a lick. He says, “I’ll give you 2 points going to 10,” “no way, I need 5 and the break!” We agree on, just 5 points on 10, for $300.00 a game pay after every game. We jockey back and forth for the first few games, He’s one game winner and asked to raise the bet to, $500.00, I said, “OK, this billiards takes too long anyway!”

By 4:00 am in the morning, We’re playing for a $1,000.00 a game and I’m only getting 2 on 10, and I’m about, $9,000.00 winners, after another 5 games, he runs out of cash in his pocket, but, still wants to keep playing. He tells me, he has more money in the safe, and gets another $10.000.00 out!
Now the Sun’s coming up outside, it’s about, 7:00am,and it’s Saturday, and He’s lost the other 10 dimes, but He’s steaming now, he can’t quit, and by now , I’m only getting the break going to 10 points. I’m about, $20.000.00 winners and the guy wont’ quit, I F***en couldn’t believe it! He’s out of cash, but, still wants to play, He says, “If I lose, I’ll write a check for it, my checks are good as GOLD!” I said, “listen Smitto, we been playing for 9 straight hours, I’m not use to this, we have to set a time limit.” I’ll tell you what I’ll do, since you’re stuck, I’ll play some till 9:00 am, (when the banks open on Saturday), and We’ll play even for $3,000.00 a game, this way you may have a chance to win some money back!” He says, “OK, that’s fair enough.”

Well, 8:30 rolls along and He’s stuck another, $21,000.00! I say, “Smitto, I’m exhausted, let’s quit, you’re not going to get your money back this way, He adamantly says, “NO, give me 2 points and we’ll play till 9 am, I promise. Meanwhile, what I didn’t realize is that, Smitto, every time he went to get a drink, He was popping, “Benny’s,” and just couldn’t stop! Need I elaborate on the final outcome, Smitto lost, a check for $30.000.00 on top of the, $19,000.00 in cash!

He writes out the check, and it dawns on me, it’s Saturday, the inside bank most likely won’t be open. Now, I’m a little worried, I ask Smitto, “Is the inside bank open today, it’s Saturday?” He says, “NO,” ONLY the drive thru.” Now, I thought to myself, “They’re NOT going to cash this BIG check at the drive-thru window, NO way!” I knew if I waited till Monday, someone would wake him up when he came off the pills. I said again, “Smitto, are you sure they’ll cash it at the drive-thru!” “I’m going to call them right now.” He did, I left and went to the bank, put my ID and check in the tube and sent it away. A few minutes later teller says, “Mr. Smith,” I said to myself, “Here we go, He stopped the check already.” “Do you have another form of ID?” I sent in my SS card, 5 minutes later here comes one tube with my ID’s and a stack of hundreds and then another tube with a stack of hundreds and a, “Thank you!” I met up with Harold at the Hotel, we cut up the money, went to sleep, woke up, got a couple of chicks and partied! Harold and I went on the road together for 25 years.

A funny ending to this story, years later, when I more or less stopped going around the country hustling, I was playing in a huge international 3C tournament in NYC. At Abel Caulderon’s room in Queens, first time I met Sang Lee, he finished second. I had just finished playing the Belgian Champion at the time, Marin Spoormans, I won the game and had the high run of the tournament 16. After the match, a tall lanky older guy with a not so good grey-haired rug, but, with a gorgeous young blonde on his arm. He says to me, “good to see you again after all these years, “can you sign my program?” I ask, “What’s your name?” He says, “make it out to Paul,” you want your last name too.” “Instead, just make it out to, “Smitto!” I take a closer look at the guy and yell out, “SMITTO!” Didn’t recognize him with the rug, we laughed together about the past. His parting words to me were, “You taught me a VERY valuable lesson, that I was only a BIG fish in a LITTLE pond!” “And I can see you certainly know this game, good luck in the FINALS!”

Remembering the good old Hustling days!
Now this is how I remember things being when I came up . I quit for 20years worked and raised kids , after that got divorced and hit tha road for the first time in 25 years , I’m stilll hooked on it , it’s so much fun …….. Thank you for the story , I needed this , smile 😊…… what a nice story
 
Bill, I read your story about playing in Denver. Really a good read.

The pool room across from the street from the capitol was apply named Capitol Billiards. In August 1967, right before I went into the Navy, I spent about 6 weeks in Denver (age 18 - turned 19 Oct 1). I played some guy there for $10 a game, paying off after every game. I think that I came out about 6 games ahead. In the newspaper a week or 2 later, there was a picture of him in handcuffs being led down the steps of the capitol for counterfeit $10 bills.

I also beat the houseman on another day playing 9-ball. BUT, he got his money back playing 3-cushion billiards. My only time playing and gambling at 3-cushion. Probably the same table that you played on. I think that is cool. A kid from Texas playing on the same table that you played on. (I went to Denver with my best friend who was enrolled in a technical school there.)

An a side note, was it Hollywood Bowl in Denver where they had a lot of action ? One night I was there beating one or two shooters. One of them told me not to play this old man who would come in after the bars closed. Turns out, it was Omaha Fats, Martin Kaimer. Well, we played a while and broke even. After that he took me around in his new black Cadillac convertible to try to make a few bucks. Don't remember if we ever made a score.
Found out later that Marty was a disabled veteran.

I will tell you that Marty could shoot as good as anyone one-handed. Saw him shoot several spot shots jacked up and draw the cue ball to the rail.
I was too young to go to it - when I started playing it was gone- but I think the pool room right there was Civic Center Billiards. My father’s office was on the other side of the plaza there- by the south side of the Denver Courthouse near the art museum so I remember being in the area in the early’70’s but was young. Maybe it was called Capitol Billiards at some point, but in hearing about it later I always heard of it as Civic Center. It was right at Colfax and Broadway the way I remember it. There are some old posts here discussing it. But again, I was too young to have played there myself.

As to the bowling alley, are you talking about Celebrity Sports Center? That was 80 lanes of bowling, arcades, swimming and had a pool room. I am old enough to remember it but not old enough to have experienced late night action or Fat Marty. They didn’t let unaccompanied kids play in the pool room. We had our run of the bowling and arcades. I think Fat Marty played at Celebrity some. It may also be that there was late night stuff back in the day because it was in the enclave of Glendale. Glendale had better laws regarding pool rooms than Denver I think. Not sure. But both Colfax Billiards and Family Fun Center were on the west side of Sheridan- just outside city limits. As to Fat Marty I only heard a few stories- he was before my time
 
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