One of those weird foul question again...

Definitely a foul

As many others have said...yes, it is technically a foul. For me, I have to seperate everything in my mind into whether I'm in a match or I'm refereeing a match. If I'm refereeing a match...I'd have to seriously consider if I should call it a foul. I can honestly say that in all the local/national tournaments I've ever reffed that I've never seen someone claim this foul. If I were playing then I'd never call it a foul...unless I thought the cueball had a realistic chance of scratching.

You would be amazed at the ways people try to use the rules to win. When looking at the rules...you have to take into account the spirit in which the rule was written. The intent of this rule is to stop somone who's going to scratch from just picking up the cueball. As a player I try to look at the intent of the rules instead of technicalities (where applicable.) As a referee...I am obligated to consider both.
 
I never touch the balls until they stop rolling. This avoids any confrontations.

Here is a dumb rule used by one of the leagues here.

Each match is played with a referee supplied from the visiting team (they just pick a player whose match isn't up yet). The home team has an assistant ref who is also monitoring each game.

When a player shoots he must call the ball and the pocket. The referee must repeat what the player says. All shots no matter how obvious must be called. If the referee does not repeat the shot and the player shots it, it is a foul. For example if a player calls the 2 ball and the 4 ball is the only solid left and everyone knows what the player means, the ref repeats the 2 ball by name even if it is not even on the table. The player shoots and it is ball in hand.

Even if the 8 ball is hanging in a pocket. It must be called and the ref must repeat everything.

Too many rules causes to many arguments which is contrary to what you might think.
 
pete lafond said:
I never touch the balls until they stop rolling. This avoids any confrontations.

Here is a dumb rule used by one of the leagues here.

Each match is played with a referee supplied from the visiting team (they just pick a player whose match isn't up yet). The home team has an assistant ref who is also monitoring each game.

When a player shoots he must call the ball and the pocket. The referee must repeat what the player says. All shots no matter how obvious must be called. If the referee does not repeat the shot and the player shots it, it is a foul. For example if a player calls the 2 ball and the 4 ball is the only solid left and everyone knows what the player means, the ref repeats the 2 ball by name even if it is not even on the table. The player shoots and it is ball in hand.

Even if the 8 ball is hanging in a pocket. It must be called and the ref must repeat everything.

Too many rules causes to many arguments which is contrary to what you might think.
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Huh, that's an interesting approach. Does that mean the designated ref also calls all fouls? What if the ref and assistant ref disagree on a foul?

This technique is used sometimes in low level softball but I've never seen it in pool. How do you like it? It sounds like you think certain aspects of it are kind of ridiculous.
 
poolboy17 said:
Huh, that's an interesting approach. Does that mean the designated ref also calls all fouls? What if the ref and assistant ref disagree on a foul?

This technique is used sometimes in low level softball but I've never seen it in pool. How do you like it? It sounds like you think certain aspects of it are kind of ridiculous.
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No, the 2nd ref was simply the only person that could ask the ref for clearification. That was all they were there for. Really a very stupid leagie in my opinion. More arguments in this league than any other league I experienced. More rules, more arguments I believe. Anyway my league play was very short lived, 3 years total and haven't played in another one again.

(getting away from topic) I think the APA has the best format given a race and BCA has the best rules, my opinion. BCA with this play and wait for your next game is very boring. Anyone can win one game and to lose without being able to come back is just down right uncompetitive. Maybe that is why they play that format.
 
Weird foul question

I see this daily in my pool room, and its not ok to do it but people do.
I have had to get in the middle of these arguments to.
I watch one guy that grabs a moving cue ball after a miss when he knew it was going to break up a little cluster for his opponent. Im not in the game so I can`t say a word until later.
Sometimes I think they are just to freekin lazy to wait for the ball to get to the ball return box.
 
nipponbilliards said:
... he sunk the 9 ball and the cue ball was rolling very slowing in the middle of the table, almost came to a complete stop as he picked up the cue ball. Player B called a foul ...
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Foul, as others have said. On the other hand, if you watch the pros on TV, you are likely to see this foul three or four times per match.

A good habit to develop: when you pocket the nine, go get your break cue, adjust the score, and then help with the balls, if any is needed. You don't need to touch the cue ball until you are ready to break.

I wonder if anything had gone on before in the match you described. Had the fouler pulled some kind of rule trick earlier? Had he been behaving?
 
How much money were they playing for?

I guess they both agreed it was a foul so what is the problem?

Our group now plays all fouls. You touch anything it is a foul. You adjust the CB with cue on BIH - it is a foul. A real pain in the ass. Only sissies play by strict rules like this. Or do I have it backwards? Only sissies don't want to play by the rules and want everything given to them.

Oh well, sure was interesting to watch the IPT and see the pros get BIH and then adjust it with their cue and the ref says "FOUL". Allison, Bustamante, Earl were all called on it. But none of them complained.

Jake
 
Well, it is different when there is a ref.

In that particular case, the guy being called was usually very well bahaved. The player who called that foul was a bit of a shady character. He may be doing that to shark him, and his opponent just gave him a ball in hand without saying anything back. This just shows you how nice a guy he was. And the money involved was less than $100 for sure, may be only $20 or so.

But the issue is not just about touching the cue ball on the last shot, sometimes, a player stopped a cue ball when his opponent fouled, and would pick up the cue ball when it was certain that nothing would be disturbed had the cue ball be allowed to roll any longer. This is done as a courtesy to speed up the game, and is very common. I have never seen anyone call that a foul although it is technically a foul.

To call this kind of foul in my opinion is against the spirit of the rules and I am not sure if a player can get away with calling such foul in a professional level tournament.

Shouldn't the rule be implemented to encourage and reward the player with better skill? How is that objective achieved if this kind of call is allowed?

Richard
 
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nipponbilliards said:
Another question I have is what if I call this foul on you, what would you say/do?

:D :D :D

Richard
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Hey Richard,
Sorry for changing subject, my post does not relate to your first question; but, is related to your second question, "re: what would you say/do?"

In 1972 I was playing in a snooker tourament at The Coushion & Cue, downtown Atlanta. A race to 2 on a 10' tables.

I lost the 1st game and was losing the 2nd until the following call was made on me.

My opponent pocketed a red ball & a numbered ball, then missed his next red ball. I did not realize he had not spotted the numbered ball. I went to the table and pocketed a red ball, he then called a foul on me for not spotting the numbered ball he had pocketed. I said nothing and just returned to my chair to await my next turn at the table. I came back to win that game & the next game uncontested, to get the win.

After that call I went on to win the event undefeated.

I would have gone to the 1-loss if he had not made that call.

"Have a nice day",
Lamar
 
nipponbilliards said:
... Shouldn't the rule be implemented to encourage and reward the player with better skill? How is that objective achieved if this kind of call is allowed?
...
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I don't necessarily disagree with you, but what would the wording of the rule be? Something like: "If the shooter feels the still-moving cue ball will not scratch after pocketing the nine ball, the shot will be considered over and he may take the cue ball in hand for the following break and sweep any remaining object balls to the rack area." Or should the non-shooter determine "game over?"
 
I have seen it the other way ...

too where my opponent picked up the cue ball while it still
had speed to bump into 2 balls together, but didn't because
he snatched up the cue ball. It is best to just leave the if and
buts out of it, and play strictly by the rules all the time, especially
when money is involved, whether a money match or tournament
with good money in it. To a lot of players, money is the first priority,
fun is the second priority. Just ask yourself, if it was a 10,000 match
you were playing, what would be right to do, and what would be
wrong to do, and play that way all the time, then those little rules
won't catch you offguard sometime.

Here another one: Tapping the head ball in Texas Express 9 ball is a
loss of game when racking. Now, what if someone called that one
on you in a hill-to-hill match. But on the other hand, what if your
opponent just kept hammering the head ball in the rack everytime
he racked for you? What would you do? Chickenshit or not, the
rules are there for a reason, and any good player better know them
backwards and forwards.
 
I supposed both Bob and Scott are right. It is a good lesson to learn to just let all the balls stop before picking the cue ball up.

With regard to Bob's question, I am thinking more along the line of a common understanding among the players to exercise common sense. But I agree that it would be almost impossible to put it in words.

Thank you everyone for sharing your opinion. Much appreciated.

Richard
 
I started a women's WPBA regional tour up here in the NW and have always felt it is about teaching the up and coming players the right rules, the right etiquette, etc.

I was in a match with a D player and noticed she kept catching the cueball before it stopped rolling, and I said very nicely to educate her, to make sure that she didn't touch the cueball before it stopped rolling because someone could call it a foul. She got very defensive and told me to take ball in hand then. I said that that was not my intent, but to teach her now to spare her pain with someone else later. She later told someone that I did it to shark her. Puh-leeze!

As someone who has never tried to shark anyone (unless for fun and it was made clear that it was VERY intentional!) because I refuse to win that way, she totally had no basis for her accusation. Also, because I would never have needed to shark her. The match was never in doubt. That match actually went on to some very unbelievable, childish behavior from this girl, including blatant lying.

My husband said I shouldn't ever open my mouth and talk to these girls, but I have always felt responsible for these new players.
 
Nostroke said:
I would quit and pay you and never speak to you again.

In general, I think you would wind up getting punched about 1 in 5 times calling this and after doing it 2 or 3 times, be considered a low life scumbag by the pool community as a whole.
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Someone tried to call a foul on me with this same situation except for I put my hand out and deliberately waited until the cueball came to a complete stop. When it stopped, that's when I picked it up. My opponent tried to call foul and then proceeded to inform me about the rules. Crazy. I specifically waited for it to stop, and they still tried to call me on it. Idiots.

Fred <~~~ will wait a full moon cycle after it stops before I touch the cue ball next time.
 
Cornerman said:
Someone tried to call a foul on me with this same situation except for I put my hand out and deliberately waited until the cueball came to a complete stop. When it stopped, that's when I picked it up. My opponent tried to call foul and then proceeded to inform me about the rules. Crazy. I specifically waited for it to stop, and they still tried to call me on it. Idiots.

Fred <~~~ will wait a full moon cycle after it stops before I touch the cue ball next time.
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When he saw your hand out there, he got so excited over getting to call this foul, he wasn't going to let that little detail get in his way. A Double Douchebag!
 
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