One Pocket Players: Removing Balls From Jaws of Opponents Pocket

K

ktrepal85

Banned
Sorry I don't have a picture for reference but I'll try my best to describe the situation:

Your opponent has a ball half way in the jaws of his pocket. There is still enough from to get the cue ball behind it to kick it out. You're positioned so that the cue ball would be coming into the rail behind the object ball at around 30 - 45 degrees.

My goal is to kick the object ball out and stop the cue ball in place. I usually use high english with a little inside english (toward the object ball) however more often than not once I perform the kick the cue ball rolls a few extra inches and scratches.

Do you think I'm using the wrong english or just taking the wrong kicking angle?
 
Yea these shots are very tricky. When the OB is in the pocket like that you have to hit it square or actually on the side that's away from the pocket to avoid it spinning in for the scratch. If you cant do this without hitting the OB very thin off the rail and sending the CB flying, sometimes your better off just making the ball. like you said, loading it up with a lot of high inside can help wedge the CB under the OB but you don't want to hit it on the pocket side because it will just spin right in the pocket. Very good post. It's very important to be able to pry ball away from opponents pocket while being able to leave the CB there.
 
Try kicking at it with dead inside English (no follow or draw) so that the cue hits the object ball full in the face. Hitting it with follow will result in the cue ball rebounding towards the pocket after contact. It can be a tricky shot depending on how deep the object ball is in the jaws. However, if you hit it square, the cue ball should die there.



Obviously without seeing how far the object ball is in the jaws, it's hard to say exactly and without any doubt what to do.
 
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I really haven't got it clear in my mind as to what your shot looks like, but generally I use draw to keep whitey from scratching when taking a ball out from my opponents pocket. That's if I am able to get a little behind the object ball. If not, then lots of left or right spin is usually needed to cause the object ball to go into the pocket facing and hopefully come out.
Of course, if the OB is in too deep, and the ball count is agreeable, then simply make the ball and even put whitey behind a corner if possible. Ofttimes this is the best strategy because removal of the OB necessitates a harder than normal hit and it's difficult to tell where the white ball might wind up. :smile:
 
DAVE_M said:
Yup, that's what I do too.

However, if you're on a Diamond and it's deep in the shelf, good luck :thumbup:
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If it is past the points completely, you need to try and spin it out with a 100mph stroke and lots of sidespin. You may get lucky and pop it out, but it is probably going to your opponent so play for the cornerhook.
 
Hitting ball too hard

ktrepal85 said:
Sorry I don't have a picture for reference but I'll try my best to describe the situation:

Your opponent has a ball half way in the jaws of his pocket. There is still enough from to get the cue ball behind it to kick it out. You're positioned so that the cue ball would be coming into the rail behind the object ball at around 30 - 45 degrees.

My goal is to kick the object ball out and stop the cue ball in place. I usually use high english with a little inside english (toward the object ball) however more often than not once I perform the kick the cue ball rolls a few extra inches and scratches.

Do you think I'm using the wrong english or just taking the wrong kicking angle?
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Its not near important to hit the ball hard as it is move it out. Probably just hitting it too hard. Just get it past the pocket points. In fact if the ball is barely out of the pocket it might be better in some instances.
 
There may be a couple ways to remove a ball from your opponent's pocket. The choice of which method to use can be determined by the depth of the ball in the jaws, whether the ball leans more to one side of the pocket than the other and angle from which the cue ball must travel to the Object ball.

One way to remove this ball is as you suggested; with a stop shot and a moderate stroke. You are using the wrong English however. You want to use the same English as whichever rail you strike. In other words, If you are hitting toward the rail to the right of the object ball than use right hand English. This will help slow the cue ball down if your hit is not quite accurate and the object ball is struck slightly off center. Be sure to stun the cue ball so it does not run through and scratch. A hard hit is not necessary

Another way to remove this object ball is with a controlled double kiss. Again with outside English and a moderately paced follow stroke, shoot directly for an approximate half ball hit on the object ball. Experiment around with this shot by changing the depth of the object ball and the angle into it with the cue ball. If the edge of the object ball is about half a balls width from the side rail this can be a very effective take out shot.

Tom
 
Without a photo or diagram, it's useless to give an accurate answer. However most shots like these, the best way to remove the object ball is with low outside.






ktrepal85 said:
Sorry I don't have a picture for reference but I'll try my best to describe the situation:

Your opponent has a ball half way in the jaws of his pocket. There is still enough from to get the cue ball behind it to kick it out. You're positioned so that the cue ball would be coming into the rail behind the object ball at around 30 - 45 degrees.

My goal is to kick the object ball out and stop the cue ball in place. I usually use high english with a little inside english (toward the object ball) however more often than not once I perform the kick the cue ball rolls a few extra inches and scratches.

Do you think I'm using the wrong english or just taking the wrong kicking angle?
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ideologist said:
Low outside, punch stroke
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Agreed

Tramp Steamer said:
I really haven't got it clear in my mind as to what your shot looks like, but generally I use draw to keep whitey from scratching when taking a ball out from my opponents pocket. That's if I am able to get a little behind the object ball. If not, then lots of left or right spin is usually needed to cause the object ball to go into the pocket facing and hopefully come out.
Of course, if the OB is in too deep, and the ball count is agreeable, then simply make the ball and even put whitey behind a corner if possible. Ofttimes this is the best strategy because removal of the OB necessitates a harder than normal hit and it's difficult to tell where the white ball might wind up. :smile:
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Double Agreed

Patrick Johnson said:
What's a punch stroke, and why use it here?

pj
chgo
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Really Pj? Are you actually asking or fishing on this one?

If you are actually asking then its to use a fair amount of force with only a little spin. Its best for a stun follow or stun draw. I just pause on my backstroke to achieve the best results. The quicker to the ball the quicker the english takes the slower to the ball the slower it takes. Those draw shots that slide a lot before taking are easier to do with a punch.

In this case you want the cueball sliding with a slight amount of right so that if it slides into the rail it kills. Whereas with inside if one doesn't hit the ob perfect the cue ball can make contact with the rail and take off.
 
Removing balls from jaws of opponent's pocket????

I would suggest using the mechanical bridge more often.


:eek:
 
Patrick Johnson said:
What's a punch stroke, and why use it here?
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DAVE_M:
http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=177642
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This thread from five years ago shows there isn't much consensus about it. The most common definition is "short backstroke and follow through". No good theories about its special usefulness.
Drop The Rock:
Really Pj? Are you actually asking or fishing on this one?

If you are actually asking then its to use a fair amount of force with only a little spin.
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Yet another definition.

I don't think "punch stroke" is an actual thing - it's whatever each player imagines it to be. And none of the things players imagine it to be are really useful techniques. It's a deviation from good form for no real purpose.

pj
chgo
 
Patrick Johnson said:
This thread from five years ago shows there isn't much consensus about it. The most common definition is "short backstroke and follow through". No good theories about its special usefulness.

Yet another definition.

I don't think "punch stroke" is an actual thing - it's whatever each player imagines it to be. And none of the things players imagine it to be are really useful techniques. It's a deviation from good form for no real purpose.

pj
chgo
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To me, punch stroke is slang for a short back stroke, accelerate quickly, and follow through. This is probably good for another thread and discussion, but I find it useful with backhand English. Whether it is actually useful or not is up for debate. I've practiced it enough that it feels natural to me. Someone who think it isn't useful, won't do it, and may perceive it as bad form.
 
Patrick Johnson said:
This thread from five years ago shows there isn't much consensus about it. The most common definition is "short backstroke and follow through". No good theories about its special usefulness.

Yet another definition.

I don't think "punch stroke" is an actual thing - it's whatever each player imagines it to be. And none of the things players imagine it to be are really useful techniques. It's a deviation from good form for no real purpose.

pj
chgo
Click to expand...

For me its not much of a deviation at all. I don't shorten my backstroke because that doesn't make any sense to me. Force follow shots are pretty difficult with a smooth un-interrupted stroke (for me anyways). If you can provide an easy solution to this particular shot our OP is enquiring about and create the same cue ball action that we are all referring to than please do so.

As I said before the slower to the cue ball, the slower the spin takes, and the faster to the cue ball the faster the spin takes. The cue ball may travel the same equivalent amount but with a different reaction. Creating this reaction by the standard pendulum stroke is tough.

If you can teach us something new it would be appreciated.
 
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