One Pocket scratch on break rules?

I hate the re-rack rule. You can make a ball on the break, leaving the cue ball where you wanted, and have to re-rack 200 times in a row, but the 200th time you hit it bad and sell out, and that's the way it goes? BS.
If you're goal is eliminating break-and-runs, just say no follow up shot after the break.
 
maha said:
if they must mess with a standard rule that has been in effect since the game was invented.

then just say the break is your turn at the table but opponent shoots next. treated as any other turn at the table with respect to the rules.
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I would call that the "break and sit down" rule. Seems like a better way to do it if you're going to have any special rule for a ball on the break.
 
i just reworded differently as some will still question whether you get the ball or not.
but yes that would be the best rule. break and sit down and take whatever transpired.

but what was wrong with how it has always been played. so they change it for the pros and now everyone has to abide by it.
what about lucking a ball in during the game. should they make that not count. what is the difference in that and lucking one in on the break.
 
maha said:
i just reworded differently as some will still question whether you get the ball or not.
but yes that would be the best rule. break and sit down and take whatever transpired.

but what was wrong with how it has always been played. so they change it for the pros and now everyone has to abide by it.
what about lucking a ball in during the game. should they make that not count. what is the difference in that and lucking one in on the break.
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If you rack for yourself and then break a ball in, it doesn't look good. This is especially true when the matches are short (race to 3) and a single rack is big.
 
no one should rack for themselves but when they allow it the opponent can check it and if he accepts it then its all on him.

and to make a ball on the break in one pocket you have to generally hit the rack harder and farther down. so that adds risk. so the reward if you chose this is to sometimes maybe make a ball. that is the reward. both sides can take that risk.

to punish for making a ball. and taking it away is to punish an aggressive break. which in turn changes the way players may break.
simply because it looks bad. hows that different than in 9 ball if the racker makes the 9 on the break. both have a high element of luck to them.
 
lfigueroa said:
Anyone who claims they know how to make a ball on the break with anything approaching a legit looking rack has action : -)

Lou Figueroa
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This supposedly works. If you cut the middle ball down the side to the pocket, the apex on the other side goes. It's kinda like the side rail break I suppose, but this one is anything but safe.
 
straightline said:
This supposedly works. If you cut the middle ball down the side to the pocket, the apex on the other side goes. It's kinda like the side rail break I suppose, but this one is anything but safe.
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Well, I'm not quite sure why that would work but regardless I think you only shoot that if you're mad at your money.

Lou Figueroa
 
freds said:
Maybe you've seen this - using a template == not legit. I wonder how consistent he'd be w/a triangle and tapped table:
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I believe almost anything is possible on your home table where you can fiddle around until you get something to work.

But I don't believe you can walk into a pool room/tournament and plan on making balls on the break. If that were truly possible Cory Deuel would have already figured it out and been shooting it for years.

Lou Figueroa
 
lfigueroa said:
I believe almost anything is possible on your home table where you can fiddle around until you get something to work.

But I don't believe you can walk into a pool room/tournament and plan on making balls on the break. If that were truly possible Cory Deuel would have already figured it out and been shooting it for years.

Lou Figueroa
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it's the same principle as the second ball 8-ball break, so corey probably does shoot it, in 8-ball. of course, corey being corey, he did the attacking break in one pocket too. most famously against shannon daulton. don't remember what ball he aimed at though
 
skogstokig said:
it's the same principle as the second ball 8-ball break, so corey probably does shoot it, in 8-ball. of course, corey being corey, he did the attacking break in one pocket too. most famously against shannon daulton. don't remember what ball he aimed at though
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My recollection of that match was that Corey was trying to push as many balls as possible towards his side, figuring, perhaps, he couldn’t out move Shannon.

I vaguely remember that after Corey blasted them Shannon went into shock and missed a wide open shot.

Lou Figueroa
 
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With a completely tight 15-ball rack, there are very high percentage shots out of the rack. At one time the European championships played straight pool with tapped/trained racks. Such a rack is as tight as with a template but doesn't have the bother of a template on the table after the break.

The problem they ran into was that some balls were so predictable out of the rack that players were not setting up break shots in the standard straight pool manner, but just leaving the cue ball in the right place to shoot a dead ball out of the rack. (Or so I've been told.)

I think they have changed to require a triangle for the 14.1 events.

I also think it would be a mistake to bet against someone who said they could make the corner ball for even money if they were allowed to rack themselves.
 
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lfigueroa said:
My recollection of that match was that Corey was trying to push as many balls as possible towards his side, figuring, perhaps, he couldn’t out move Shannon.

I vaguely remember that after Corey blasted them Shannon went into shock and missed a wide open shot.

Lou Figueroa
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I remember that one pretty well. I think it was 1999 or 2000, and he shot the break from the same side as his pocket, hitting the 2nd ball pretty square. I know the first game of that match Corey won the lag and would have left Shannon straight in after the break, but a couple balls were spotted up blocking it. Pretty sure Shannon cut one in, but I'm not positive. Shannon may have been in shock (a lot of the crowd was), but he still played pretty well. Most of what I recall was Corey playing super aggressive, scratching a lot, and eventually eeking out a win for the match.

Bob Jewett said:
I also think it would be a mistake to bet against someone who said they could make the corner ball for even money if they were allowed to rack themselves.
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Agreed. Definitely guys out there who can manipulate the rack such that they're better than even money to make a ball on the break, even on a table they've never played. I think it was last year at Derby where Jonathan Pinegar made a ball on the break and had to re break both of his breaks against Chohan.
 
MD1108 said:
One Pocket break rules question - Utilizing the rules if, the breaker pockets a ball in their pocket on opening break, it's a re-rack and the game has technically not yet begun.
What if, breaker pockets a ball in their pocket on the opening break and also scratches(cue ball went in a pocket), is this also a re-rack with breaker keeping control since the game has not started?
Or, is this a foul, the ball pocketed spots, the breaker owes a ball(thus they are at -1), and control now passes to incoming player(non breaker), with cue ball in hand behind the head string.

I checked Derby City rules online, didn't see anything offering clarity. Also checked Onepocket.org, and if reading their guidelines correctly -
it's a foul, with the breaker owing a ball and the pocketed ball being spotted, and incoming player(non breaker), receiving cue ball in hand behind the head string.

Thanks for the help and wisdom.

Best to all
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The last description in old school one hole.
 
Anyone here ever do a kick break in one pocket? If you are shooting for the left pocket, set up on the left side of the table and kick off the right long rail into the rack.
 
if you try to make a ball on the break you take a big extra risk you sell out at least a ball or two,

so stands you should be rewarded for that risk. if you don't then it doesn't pay to have an aggressive break.

and no one can bet even money or even close to it they can make one one the break legally even if they rack. as long as you accept that rack. just like in a real game you get to accept the opponents rack or have him keep doing it over until its square.
ill put my money where my mouth is unlike some in this world. and the window is open. on all neutral conditions.
 
bbb said:
Most of the times the rules say make a ball on the break it’s a re-rack
(regardless of what else happens … my words)
I used to feel like you did if he makes a ball and scratches you should play it as a foul
But the logic I’ve been explained is if the breaker doesn’t get the reward for making the ball then he doesn’t get the penalty for making the ball and scratches
The idea, if you won’t give him his cherry, you can’t make him eat the lemon
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Very well stated.
 
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tomatoshooter said:
Anyone here ever do a kick break in one pocket? If you are shooting for the left pocket, set up on the left side of the table and kick off the right long rail into the rack.
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I've never played it but had Piggy Banks (aka Glenn Rodgers) shoot it at me in a match up in Chicago.

I'd never had it played on me and as I walked up to the table I actually had to ask him which pocket was mine, lol.

Lou Figueroa
 
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