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One-Pocket Strategy Question
- Thread starter sjm
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When spotting balls up, nothing goes straight into the pocket from the kitchen until maybe the fifth or sixth ball, I forget which.
I've watched and played a lot of one-pocket and I believe
that the shot described by deadwhak is the most common among good players. It is easy to execute and leaves no reasonable bank for your opponent. It also complies with the time honored one-pocket axiom that when you need fewer balls than your opponent, you should favor defense over offense. But it may have been the shot described by Robertduke that you saw at DCC. Like deadwhak's shot, it leaves the cue ball on the end rail and leaves no reasonable bank shot for your opponent. As I recall, Cliff Joyner favors this shot.
that the shot described by deadwhak is the most common among good players. It is easy to execute and leaves no reasonable bank for your opponent. It also complies with the time honored one-pocket axiom that when you need fewer balls than your opponent, you should favor defense over offense. But it may have been the shot described by Robertduke that you saw at DCC. Like deadwhak's shot, it leaves the cue ball on the end rail and leaves no reasonable bank shot for your opponent. As I recall, Cliff Joyner favors this shot.
I think passing up on something offensive here is just way too nitty against most players.
FWIW I shoot this and feel pretty comfortable shooting it.
FWIW I shoot this and feel pretty comfortable shooting it.
I think this may be the best option if you want to shoot an offensive shot with the two frozen balls. On the other hand, I was watching a $500 a game one-pocket match not long ago where a player attempted this shot and maybe because nerves got the best of him, he over cut the ball so badly he left it on his opponent's side of the table and lost the game. BTW, I know Cliff Joyner has played the two frozen ball shot defensively for huge $$$, and he's not likely to be called "too nitty" by many people. :grin-square::grin-square:
FINALLY! He's right, you CANNOT cut the second ball in your pocket. If anyone thinks they can, they have action with me all day long!
The shot I like best in this spot (which comes up often), which no one has mentioned, is to place the cue ball to the far left near the side rail and hit BOTH balls with a thin hit on the left side. Using medium speed the two balls move toward your side and the cue ball comes back up table. You now have both balls on your side of the table, within a couple of diamonds of your pocket and better yet in a line (often it works this way). And the cue is up table near the end rail. Guess what, you just won the game!
Practice this shot a few times and you can do it. It's not hard to execute, only takes good aim and a little cue ball speed control. Pretty fool proof too.
This shot will win you the game when this leave comes up, which it does a lot in One Pocket. Now your man is forced to kick at the back ball from off the end rail. At best he sells out a free bank for you. At worst, he leaves you straight in on a short shot at your hole. Try it, you'll like it!
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Yes, that's the shot I remember seeing pplayed at DCC. Lots of good ideas in this thread.
I like this shot best of all, it make your opponent have to deal with the ball around the side while not leaving a free long rail bank. I'd guess most posters don't play much one pocket, except for funsies.
Good job.
Rod.
I shoot the shot AZE posted; cross-bank the 2nd ball with outside and just enough speed to get it near your hole. Granted, 1-pocket is far from my best game, but I'm good enough at this shot that I'm a big favorite to win from here against anybody I ever play against (and an ENORMOUS favorite to win if I make the bank 
).
-Andrew
).-Andrew
My two cents
I believe that if two top players are competing, especially upper echelon players, you should play both balls and reposition the cue ball (w ith a draw stroke) back to the end rail. Heres my explanation for this shot selection. When two top players are confronted with a position, or a situation similiar to this one they should be aggressive, because #1 they have the ability to execute shots with better results, and #2 when a top player needs two balls to his opponents one he is not as big as an underdog as when two lesser players are in the same position. So when a top player needs one ball to his opponents two he is not as big as a favorite as when a lesser player needing one ball to his opponents two.
If two lesser players are playing I like Robert Duke's shot #21 Bill Porter's shot #26 and even Jay's shot#26. Taking a ball out of play for weaker players is worth much more for the shooter, who is the player needing only one ball.
I believe that if two top players are competing, especially upper echelon players, you should play both balls and reposition the cue ball (w ith a draw stroke) back to the end rail. Heres my explanation for this shot selection. When two top players are confronted with a position, or a situation similiar to this one they should be aggressive, because #1 they have the ability to execute shots with better results, and #2 when a top player needs two balls to his opponents one he is not as big as an underdog as when two lesser players are in the same position. So when a top player needs one ball to his opponents two he is not as big as a favorite as when a lesser player needing one ball to his opponents two.
If two lesser players are playing I like Robert Duke's shot #21 Bill Porter's shot #26 and even Jay's shot#26. Taking a ball out of play for weaker players is worth much more for the shooter, who is the player needing only one ball.
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Stop the presses !!!
People seem to ignore what Androd posted earlier....If you have ball in hand in the kitchen, you will be the one only needing one ball to win.
This scenario usually occurs because you have hung the last ball on the table so far in the jaws of your hole, your opponent had no option but to follow it in,(or jump off the table)thus spotting a ball penalty, plus the one he made for you.
This should take ALL even mildly risky shots out of the equation if you are really playing to win, against ANYBODY.
The shot Bill Porter describes Cliff favoring, is the only shot most top players would even consider in this situation.
If you want to be a "gofer hero" you can shoot at white flag if you want to, but that will not win very many games against two evenly matched "good" one pocket players.
Naturally things change a little when you involve weaker players versus stronger ones.
If by some weird quirk you do need both balls,(which almost CAN'T be the case) Jays shot would be the one I would favor.
Dick
PS. The TV shot, (playing both balls to your hole) or banking the second ball to your hole, are real crowd pleasers, but trust me, a lot of things can go wrong. Right Billy ???
People seem to ignore what Androd posted earlier....If you have ball in hand in the kitchen, you will be the one only needing one ball to win.
This scenario usually occurs because you have hung the last ball on the table so far in the jaws of your hole, your opponent had no option but to follow it in,(or jump off the table)thus spotting a ball penalty, plus the one he made for you.
This should take ALL even mildly risky shots out of the equation if you are really playing to win, against ANYBODY.
The shot Bill Porter describes Cliff favoring, is the only shot most top players would even consider in this situation.
If you want to be a "gofer hero" you can shoot at white flag if you want to, but that will not win very many games against two evenly matched "good" one pocket players.
Naturally things change a little when you involve weaker players versus stronger ones.
If by some weird quirk you do need both balls,(which almost CAN'T be the case) Jays shot would be the one I would favor.
Dick
PS. The TV shot, (playing both balls to your hole) or banking the second ball to your hole, are real crowd pleasers, but trust me, a lot of things can go wrong. Right Billy ???
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eek !!
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:eek :
:boring2: :boring2: That's a bit of old school thinking, and imo there is quite a few of old school ways of playing and thinking that I disagree with. Sorry Dick but i'm definetly playing to win on this shot if i'm playing Scott Frost.
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:boring2: :boring2: That's a bit of old school thinking, and imo there is quite a few of old school ways of playing and thinking that I disagree with. Sorry Dick but i'm definetly playing to win on this shot if i'm playing Scott Frost.
I shoot the shot AZE posted; cross-bank the 2nd ball with outside and just enough speed to get it near your hole. Granted, 1-pocket is far from my best game, but I'm good enough at this shot that I'm a big favorite to win from here against anybody I ever play against (and an ENORMOUS favorite to win if I make the bank
-Andrew
If you make the bank, you've already won !
A lot more can go right, especially if you make one of the two balls. Dick, ask Scott Frost what shot he doesn't want his opponent to shoot in this situation. Fair enough?
I've never seen this shot successfully executed, although I will fool around with it this afternoon. Being one of the weaker players Billy was mentioning I would still be reluctant to leave both balls in play.
Rod.
PS; hope I can master it.
Dick, actually banking the second ball toward your hole is not all that bad, especially if you have confidence in your ability to hit that type of shot. The two rail scratch is probably the riskiest part of that shot. But even if you do scratch the penalty ball will be spotted behind the ball that is left on the spot then both players will need two. And just perhaps the ball that you banked toward your hole may even hang. I know you're not that lucky, right?
Billy, if I am playing Scott, I know I have to go for a win on this turn at the table because I'm very unlikely to prevail in a safety battle with him. So I'd try to two rail the back ball by shooting 8-10 inches left of the head spot and striking the front ball a bit left of center with low right English and a hard draw stroke. This give both balls a chance to go, but I have made the two railer on the back ball more often that I've sent the spotted ball directly into the pocket.
You know, i have to say.
I have selected, and always will continue to select the "hit it with draw and make the headball into the hole scenario"
I first watched Jimmy Fusco execute this shot, and i have shot it ever since.
It's just like any other shot that you come across.
If you practice it, and if you know the proper angle to place the cue ball, and you know the speed of the table, etc etc. It basically FLIES towards the hole when done properly.
I think in the grand scheme of things, this shot has won me WAY more games, then it has lost me.
Plus, given that whole i need 1 and they need 2 scenario, if you know what your doing, your basically taking the head ball out of play if you miss it because it is going to be hanging out right in front of the hole, or right next to it.
When done properly, the cue ball gets drawn to the head of the table anyway, and the ball that was underneath the spot ball, 2 rails, and sometimes when the spot ball misses the hole, the bottom ball 2 rails and craps in anyway.
Either way, unless your a total idiot, if you practice it enough times to know, your chances of selling out are minimal, and then the odds of you selling out BOTH balls, is almost next to impossible.
One ball, maybe, but both balls, you have to have hit it at warp speed, or like a retard, and in that case, you deserve to lose the game.
The only way that i choose not to shoot this shot for the win is if for whatever reason, the spot has a HUGE crater/divot in it from people pounding the head ball into place.
If the crater is severe enough, then i would opt for banking the second ball 1 rails and cross corner.
The only reason i would just flat out duck, and shoot the balls away, is if i am in the tank and getting pounded on, in which case, i'm not going to execute anything well to begin with, and if somehow, knocking them away adds extra high hopes to the situation, and can somehow extract an extra game out of my opponent.
Otherwise, i will shoot for the win when given this situation.
The only other shot is this, if you know how to shoot it.
I don't use it as much because you need a certain type of rail characteristic.
Just load it up with inside, slightly high, and let her rip.
PRACTICE IT so you understand the hit so you don't sell the farm on each try.
And unlike the head ball draw shot, this is more of a move then an actual attempt to pocket the ball, but the ball has been known to fly in 2 rails or hang in the hole.
I have selected, and always will continue to select the "hit it with draw and make the headball into the hole scenario"
I first watched Jimmy Fusco execute this shot, and i have shot it ever since.
It's just like any other shot that you come across.
If you practice it, and if you know the proper angle to place the cue ball, and you know the speed of the table, etc etc. It basically FLIES towards the hole when done properly.
I think in the grand scheme of things, this shot has won me WAY more games, then it has lost me.
Plus, given that whole i need 1 and they need 2 scenario, if you know what your doing, your basically taking the head ball out of play if you miss it because it is going to be hanging out right in front of the hole, or right next to it.
When done properly, the cue ball gets drawn to the head of the table anyway, and the ball that was underneath the spot ball, 2 rails, and sometimes when the spot ball misses the hole, the bottom ball 2 rails and craps in anyway.
Either way, unless your a total idiot, if you practice it enough times to know, your chances of selling out are minimal, and then the odds of you selling out BOTH balls, is almost next to impossible.
One ball, maybe, but both balls, you have to have hit it at warp speed, or like a retard, and in that case, you deserve to lose the game.
The only way that i choose not to shoot this shot for the win is if for whatever reason, the spot has a HUGE crater/divot in it from people pounding the head ball into place.
If the crater is severe enough, then i would opt for banking the second ball 1 rails and cross corner.
The only reason i would just flat out duck, and shoot the balls away, is if i am in the tank and getting pounded on, in which case, i'm not going to execute anything well to begin with, and if somehow, knocking them away adds extra high hopes to the situation, and can somehow extract an extra game out of my opponent.
Otherwise, i will shoot for the win when given this situation.
The only other shot is this, if you know how to shoot it.
I don't use it as much because you need a certain type of rail characteristic.
Just load it up with inside, slightly high, and let her rip.
PRACTICE IT so you understand the hit so you don't sell the farm on each try.
And unlike the head ball draw shot, this is more of a move then an actual attempt to pocket the ball, but the ball has been known to fly in 2 rails or hang in the hole.
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Stop the presses #2 !!!
Billy,
Don't make me feel like a dinosaur. Nobody played any more aggressive style of play than I did in my prime.
As we (emphasis on "we") get older, the right shot is often the wrong one.
You missed my edit. You are getting into players of various skill levels
In all of my scenarios and touting, I try to envision two top level players competing at their best.
All my input is based on that assumption.
If your playing Scott Frost, obviously thats not an even game, right ? Gotcha :thumbup:
Dick
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:eek :
Billy,
Don't make me feel like a dinosaur. Nobody played any more aggressive style of play than I did in my prime.
As we (emphasis on "we") get older, the right shot is often the wrong one.
You missed my edit. You are getting into players of various skill levels
In all of my scenarios and touting, I try to envision two top level players competing at their best.
All my input is based on that assumption.
If your playing Scott Frost, obviously thats not an even game, right ?
Gotcha :thumbup:Dick