One-Pocket Strategy Question

[Aaron_S]

I'm a relative newbie to the game, and most of what I have learned so far has come from the videos of DCC 1-p matches. After a year or so of tinkering around with the game, I'm finally starting to have some minor successes at applying what I've learned in those videos, and I can usually make it through a 1-p session without looking like a total idiot... usually. Anyway, I found myself in a position last night where I honestly didn't know what to do. I mean, I thought I knew what I was supposed to do, but I just couldn't allow myself to do it.

Here's the basic situation:

CueTable Help

I'm ahead 6 to 1, and I have the bottom left pocket, and my opp. keeps leaving me something like this. I know that my opp. is very capable of doing major damage if I leave him a shot, so I've got this little Danny D. commentator voice in my head saying "you just gotta play the score and start pushing balls uptable, get 'em out of play". I just couldn't bear the thought of moving those balls away from my hole, though, so I just kept thinning off of balls and trying to leave him at about position A, hoping he might take a flyer and sell out. Well, it ended up working out ok for me, but I still wonder if I made a bad decision by not pushing those balls uptable. So I guess my question is, are you always supposed to try to get the balls out of play when you're way ahead, or does it depend on how many you think your opp. will get if you sell out? Any advice will be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

Aaron

 

[BillPorter]

My take....

I'm a relative newbie to the game, and most of what I have learned so far has come from the videos of DCC 1-p matches. After a year or so of tinkering around with the game, I'm finally starting to have some minor successes at applying what I've learned in those videos, and I can usually make it through a 1-p session without looking like a total idiot... usually. Anyway, I found myself in a position last night where I honestly didn't know what to do. I mean, I thought I knew what I was supposed to do, but I just couldn't allow myself to do it.

Here's the basic situation:

CueTable Help

I'm ahead 6 to 1, and I have the bottom left pocket, and my opp. keeps leaving me something like this. I know that my opp. is very capable of doing major damage if I leave him a shot, so I've got this little Danny D. commentator voice in my head saying "you just gotta play the score and start pushing balls uptable, get 'em out of play". I just couldn't bear the thought of moving those balls away from my hole, though, so I just kept thinning off of balls and trying to leave him at about position A, hoping he might take a flyer and sell out. Well, it ended up working out ok for me, but I still wonder if I made a bad decision by not pushing those balls uptable. So I guess my question is, are you always supposed to try to get the balls out of play when you're way ahead, or does it depend on how many you think your opp. will get if you sell out? Any advice will be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

Aaron

While I might do the very same thing you did (leaving the opponent up table with no shot at his pocket), if I REALLY want to WIN that game, I have to move balls up table. Maybe leave him on the end rail or close to the rail and get balls out of play.

 

[shag_fu]

when you do push balls up table, you want to move them out of your banking lanes. Right now you have no shot under the balls, if you can clear a few out of there and open up some banking lanes, your opponent might think twice about leaving you under the stack. Especailly moving the 11/2 and maybe the 5 ball, those appear to be the largest balls in your way right now.

 

[desert1pocket]

I think that the correct play from there would depend on your own abilities, and the abilities and style of play of your opponent. In many cases I would play it much like you did. I might also break up the balls that are tied up closest to the hole, and leave him low, being careful not to give up a two rail shot. This would force him to move balls uptable for you, and it would open up the lane to your hole. Moving balls uptable and out of play when you are way ahead is great, but don't let that general strategy prevent you from taking another shot that has a lot of merit.

 

[Russ Chewning]

Hmmm... If you can get away with leaving your opponent at point A, it seems as if your opponent is a ball runner, and other wise clueless about One Pocket.

Tell me this.. If you leave the cue ball near A, and he can hit the 5... How do you like your position if he pockets the five and freezes onto the back side of the 9? The two balls near your pocket ar no threat whatsoever. Furthermore, if you leave the cue ball in the wrong spot, your opponent might be able to play a carom bank and get on of them near his pocket.

In my opinion, you really only have a choice between two shots. One is to cut the 7 into the 4, and leaving your opponent very close to his own pocket.

The other is to softly roll into the 11, making sure your opponent can ONLY see the 11, and separating those two balls. Leaving no threat near your pocket makes it extremely risky leaving your opponent at either end of the table. There are ALL SORTS of cute little shots that can get your opponent back into the game from this position. Once you separate the 11 and that other ball, he is gonna nick the 11 and play safe, starting the process of moving the balls uptable. You want to FORCE your opponent to help you move the balls uptable, man...

Again IMO, leaving so many balls down table is absolutely suicidal, unless you can freeze your opponent to a ball EVERY time. You mess up one time and leave your opponent some freaky 1, 2, or 3 rail bank, and he could hang up a ball in your pocket and have you dead hooked on it. Then you are gonna be wondering, "Why Oh WHY didn't I listen to Danny D.?

Russ

 

[Russ Chewning]

Also, if you were to leave pretty much this position and leave your opponent at A, how do you like if it he successfully executes THIS shot?

Cut the 4 into the side of the 7, caroming in the 5, cue ball glances off the side of the 5 and comes to rest behind the 9. If he hits it good, the 4 ends up about a foot from his pocket, maybe closer if he's lucky, and the 5 spots up, and you are hooked behind the 9 on both the 5 and 4.

Hey.. It may not lie quite right for this shot, but then again, it might... It's a monster move if he pulls it off, and think of this question...

Why shouldn't he try it? It's mucho desperation time, bro. 6-1, and he has nothing to lose.

Leaving the balls up there is suicidal..

Russ

 

[senor]

The "only" shot is to break up the 11/2 next to your hole and leave the cueball frozen to the rail below the cluster. Someone else pointed this out, but the "only" shot that your opponent will have the next inning will be to knock something else uptable, doing your job for you, basically. I say "only" because everyone plays one hole differently, but the situation you described is fairly common and generally these are the shots taken.

 

[Russ Chewning]

Senor,

Thanks for the verification on that shot. I think I have picked up a HUGE amount of knowledge by watching Accu-Stats One Pocket matches here in Iraq, as that's basically ALL I watch..

It really does help you to recognize the shot, and to know how your opponent can punish you if you don't take the right shot.

There's all sorts of circus shots his opponent can shoot to get him back in the game from this position, and the main thing to do is prevent his opponent from getting a look at ANY of those circus shots, because at 6-1, even circus shots become the right shots.

Russ

 

[Aaron_S]

While I might do the very same thing you did (leaving the opponent up table with no shot at his pocket), if I REALLY want to WIN that game, I have to move balls up table. Maybe leave him on the end rail or close to the rail and get balls out of play.

That's pretty much what I was expecting to hear. This guy plays pretty good, but I knew that his odds of getting 7 out of that layout were pretty slim. Against a better player, though, I could have ended up in a bad spot. Thanks for the advice.

 

[Aaron_S]

...This would force him to move balls uptable for you, and it would open up the lane to your hole.

I kind of like this approach as well, stay conservative, and force your opp. move balls uptable for you. Good call.

 

[vagabond]

While I might do the very same thing you did (leaving the opponent up table with no shot at his pocket), if I REALLY want to WIN that game, I have to move balls up table. Maybe leave him on the end rail or close to the rail and get balls out of play.

HOWDY,
If you send the cue ball to that position either playing me or my beer drinking, skirt chasing ,rebel rouser friends of mine we will surprise by quickly equalizing the game to 6-6 and then we will take that game because u come to reality.
It is ok to do that against a B+ players but not on A players.cheers

 

[Aaron_S]

Hmmm... If you can get away with leaving your opponent at point A, it seems as if your opponent is a ball runner, and other wise clueless about One Pocket.

LOL. Well, I wouldn't call him clueless, but he's certainly not what you would call an upper echelon 1p player.

Tell me this.. If you leave the cue ball near A, and he can hit the 5... How do you like your position if he pockets the five and freezes onto the back side of the 9?

Freezes onto the back side of the 9? That is a ridiculously difficult shot to pull off, and I can't really see how any potential reward would be worth the tremendous risk involved. You'd have to search for 6 months to even find a table around here straight enough to allow that shot, lol. But... I think I'd still like my end of it from there if he got lucky and did it, because I'm pretty sure I could avoid a major sellout, even if it meant taking an intentional foul.

You mess up one time and leave your opponent some freaky 1, 2, or 3 rail bank

Actually, I was hoping he might eventually fire at something freaky. Isn't there something to be said for trying to lure your opp. into shooting at a low-percentage shot where, even if he makes it, he probably won't get all he needs, and if he misses he sells out? To me, that's the beauty of strategy games like this, and I look for those opportunities. I tried that several times last night, though, and this guy knows enough to not fire at a 20% or 30% shot unless it's free, or he only needs 1 ball.

...and he could hang up a ball in your pocket

That doesn't really sound so bad.

I understand where you're coming from, and I certainly do appreciate the advice, but I'm kind of in the mindset of defending against things that are likely to happen, rather than things that are extremely unlikely to happen, like this guy ramming in a 3-railer and running out. It might happen, but for every 1 time it does, there will be 15 times where it doesn't. That's all about knowing your opponent, though, and I realize that you don't know how this guy plays.

Thanks again for the advice.

 

[Aaron_S]

HOWDY,
If you send the cue ball to that position either playing me or my beer drinking, skirt chasing ,rebel rouser friends of mine we will surprise by quickly equalizing the game to 6-6 and then we will take that game because u come to reality.
It is ok to do that against a B+ players but not on A players.cheers

If you were left with that shot, what exactly would you do to get your 5? I have some ideas of what I would do from there, but none of them include picking up 5 balls, lol. I'm not trying to call your 1p prowess into question, just trying to learn. Thanks.

 

[Russ Chewning]

Did you try the shot before you called it ridiculously hard? The first shot I talked about was nothing more than rolling in the five and softly laying on the 9. How is that hard? Getting the 5 ball from a HORRIBLE position from your opponent's perspective to a spot where it is a REAL threat. He can just roll the 5 in and have made a good shot, but if he gets close to the 9, it becomes a VERY good shot. And you said ridiculously risky.. How? I am assuming you let him see the 5 directly from area of A. From there, there is a LOT of things your opponent can do to get a ball on the spot and not let you see the spot.

As far as the second shot, it's not really as hard as it looks. The only hard part is hitting the 4 at the correct angle to carom into the 5. And you don't actually have to freeze the cueball to the 9 to vastly improve your position. I just said freezing to the back of the 9 "might" happen. I'd be willing to bet I could hit the shot well enough to move another ball closer to my pocket, carom in the 5, and get behind at least part of the 9. The result of the shot is now you have to defend a ball on the spot and a ball possibly near his pocket. And if you take an intentional? 5-1 and a ball near his hole are a lot better than 6-1 after you've moved two more balls to the end of the table.

And for him, it's not about forcing a sellout on THIS inning. That rarely happens in One Pocket. It's about improving his position over 2 or 3 shots, and possibly forcing you to commit an intentional foul to avoid selling out.

The point of all this is that even if he takes a flyer at a 20%-30% shot... you have no real threats. So it's a FREE 20%-30% shot.

And when I was talking about a "freaky" 1, 2, or 3 railer, I am talking about a "free" freaky 1, 2 or 3 railer. If you leave him near A, there are also some other free sorts of shots.

You seemed like you took my comments kind of personally, and you seem to be taking vagabond's comment personally as well. I'll take a stab at answering your question to vagabond. If you leave him on the foot rail with either any room off the rail, or a decent angle, he might just cut a ball in on you from the middle of the table, and try to get to a safe spot. If he ends up on a ball, running another 4 or 5 from this position is just NOT a problem.

All we are saying is that playing to leave him at A is probably 10 times more "ludicrously risky" than the "standard One Pocket move of hitting the 11 and moving balls uptable. Position A gives him a chance to win by moving multiple balls back uptable. Leaving him near your pocket after moving a ball uptable gives him very very little chance to win.

It seems like it's a macho thing for you, man. You want to win in as little innings as possible, and that's why you don't want to move balls uptable. That's not One Pocket. He screwed up by letting you get to 6. Punish him.

Win the game!

Again, no offense, but I think you need to seek out a stronger opponent to practice with. I don't think you are getting the idea of locking down the screws on your opponent, because you are playing a weak player.

You need to be playing players who are capable of running 8 and out on you. That will improving your moving skills. They can't run 8 and out if they never get a shot. And if they take shots at risky fliers, then eventually they'll leave you an 8 and out a few times, and then their stroke will tighten up once they sell out a few times....

Good luck man, and keep posting these questions. Nobody is insulting your play here, just trying to show you playing the proper type of shot in One Pocket is MUCH more improtant than in other games.

Russ

 

[TX Poolnut]

Charlie Bryant is standing behind me and suggests breaking up the cluster and forcing your opponent to shoot what Russ suggested in his first post. By breaking up the cluster, you force him to play the one short rail back to your corner. With any luck you can then run down table to "A" on your next inning and hide the now open balls close to your pocket, therby forcing him to go after a hidden ball and hopefully leaving you something. If not, you can probably do it again until you get your last two. Just make darn sure you leave whitey dead on the head rail.

With seven to go, your opponent is gonna need a miracle and may get crazy (careless) to get out in 1 inning but don't let up on him. This is a prime chance to go for the throat.

Nice post BTW.

 

[vagabond]

If you were left with that shot, what exactly would you do to get your 5? I have some ideas of what I would do from there, but none of them include picking up 5 balls, lol. I'm not trying to call your 1p prowess into question, just trying to learn. Thanks.

Hi Aron,
I rarely post on the technical aspects of the game because I do not know how to use the WEI table, I am not a good teacher in pool,I can`t type very well, and I am little bit secretive .In the pool hall I rarely tell the others what to do on a pool table.Few days ago I wanted to teach a girl on basics of kicking.I started teaching her but every thing I talked was wrong.later I told her to erase everything I told from her mind including my meeting with her.I am a pretty good kicker but I could not explain to her.
I answered the poster`s primary question whether it is Ok to send the cue ball to the position A.
Thanks Russ, your option is one of the two options I considered.I also considered what the pro player suggested.cheers

 

[Aaron_S]

Charlie Bryant is standing behind me and suggests breaking up the cluster and forcing your opponent to shoot what Russ suggested in his first post. By breaking up the cluster, you force him to play the one short rail back to your corner. With any luck you can then run down table to "A" on your next inning and hide the now open balls close to your pocket, therby forcing him to go after a hidden ball and hopefully leaving you something. If not, you can probably do it again until you get your last two. Just make darn sure you leave whitey dead on the head rail.

With seven to go, your opponent is gonna need a miracle and may get crazy (careless) to get out in 1 inning but don't let up on him. This is a prime chance to go for the throat.

Nice post BTW.

That's why I love this forum so much, you never know when a pro might chime in and offer their advice. Very cool! Please tell Charlie thanks for taking the time to look at my situation, and wish him good luck on the tournament trail for me.

Thanks,

Aaron

 

[Aaron_S]

Hi Aron,
I rarely post on the technical aspects of the game because I do not know how to use the WEI table, I am not a good teacher in pool,I can`t type very well, and I am little bit secretive .In the pool hall I rarely tell the others what to do on a pool table.Few days ago I wanted to teach a girl on basics of kicking.I started teaching her but every thing I talked was wrong.later I told her to erase everything I told from her mind including my meeting with her.I am a pretty good kicker but I could not explain to her.
I answered the poster`s primary question whether it is Ok to send the cue ball to the position A.
Thanks Russ, your option is one of the two options I considered.I also considered what the pro player suggested.cheers

I totally understand, Vagabond. I also have a hard time teaching people what I know, which is not too much, lol. Best Holiday wishes to you and yours.

Aaron

 

[Jakie]

In the diagram it looks like you can see part of the 4 ball. If so, a shot to consider would be to 2rail the 4 ball hitting betwween the first diamond on the top rail and the top corner pocket. Draw english will allow you to leave the cue on or near the top rail (center diamond) . The objective is to leave the 4 ball on or near the bottom rail under the rest of the balls so your opponent can't see it . If he is able to safe you from there you can skim balls and leave him back on the top rail. The key to one pocket is PATIENCE !!! Keep him on the top rail and look for 2 and 3 rail banks that allow you to hide the cue and move balls to your hole. You have this game won if you keep Whitey under control.

 

[Aaron_S]

In the diagram it looks like you can see part of the 4 ball. If so, a shot to consider would be to 2rail the 4 ball hitting betwween the first diamond on the top rail and the top corner pocket. Draw english will allow you to leave the cue on or near the top rail (center diamond)

.

Yeah, nice shot. Not only does it look possible, it looks pretty safe and high % as well.

The key to one pocket is PATIENCE !!! Keep him on the top rail and look for 2 and 3 rail banks that allow you to hide the cue and move balls to your hole. You have this game won if you keep Whitey under control.

I'm definitely lacking in the patience dept., but I'm finding that as my knowledge increases, so does my patience. Maybe it's because my frustration level decreases as I learn more moves, and become more confident in my decisions. I am increasingly of the opinion that this game requires more skill, knowlege, creativity, and patience than any other game I know of, and I think I'm becoming a 1-p addict. Thanks for the advice.

Aaron