Only pool tournament players............

[RiverCity]

What is it about the template racks that makes them wrong for the game?
JoeyA

The same thing that was wrong with the Sardo rack, pattern racking and all the other little tricks and gaffs that have been discovered about breaking these last however many years. While intention behind these racks are innocent, the reality of the outcome is not.
Racking is supposed to be random, both in order of the balls in the rack and the outcome of the spread. Sardo racks, and template racks, take away quite a bit of the randomness to the spread, add to that pattern racking.... And you are setting up a drill type situation with very similar patterns/layout. At the lower amateur levels this isnt as big of an impact, as the breaker might not be able to give a repeatable break stroke. As skill level increases and especially at the pro level, its a joke IMO.
Years back there were some known rack mechanics, and they were looked at by their competitors as jackasses and cheats. Nowadays tournament promoters have bowed down to the players and allowed rule changes to reward the same behavior that was considered by most to be cheating 20+ years ago. A bunch of it started with rack your own, which in any games other than one pocket and 8 ball is a recipe for disaster. And it was allowed because tournament promoters didnt stand up to the whiners and lay down the law about "checking the rack", and demanding multiple reracks until they had the gaps they were happy with. So lets make a rack that gives as tight a pack as possible. Good thought, even playing field and all. But that was quickly discovered to be a problem back from the earliest Sardo days when the wing ball flew in every time and the spread was repeatable.
I liken it to allowing a baseball pitcher to keep an emory board and a jar of vaseline on them at all times while on the mound. Allowing false starts on the line of scrimmage. Etc etc etc. With pool it seems to be ok with some based on the "if everyone else is doing it" mentality. Quite frankly, IMO its cheating, cut and dry. Always has been, always will be. Why on earth, with a game that is already failing, would promoting ways of cheating or to put it milder.... taking advantage of poorly written rules, be the right thing for the future of the game? Its not, all it does is placate cheaters and whiners.
Ill finish my thought by repeating.... The rack and the spread are supposed to be random. That worked fine for years. Change it for the whiners? I say no.
Chuck

 

[rhatten]

ok I'll say it this way. btw Yes again on using a 'Magic Rack' type (tight rack only model ) to have tournament event.

Question: So does every tournament event have 'green fees' added to the "Entry fee costs"?... if not, how do they "recoup that loss"? Who sets the green fee amounts? does that include clean balls, chalk, wood rack, bridge and additional practice time? What about the tournament event holders that don't charge a green fee but yet have "money added"? How about adding a "fairness rack" for a lot less...Money added? then more players could be 'fairly entertained' doing the said event. Enjoy the increase beer and food sells for offering a 'fairer' deal.

We all know 9 ball (existing TxEpress rules) is an issue. We need to get "Pro 9 ball rules" if you will written and played. (Its played like 10 ball...that way you can keep the EVENT NAMES in place..Its you can't win on the break: call 1 ball in 1 hole per shot/ call safe: Make you shoot again like Amer Rotation). With this format, Winner break would be GREAT!!! Give this 9 ball game back some of the dignity and glory it started out as being originally. As it is, its ruining what tournament play/gambling was designed to be... and thats to find the more skilled player and get THAT PERSON paid for the better performance. just saying... one mans opinion.

Randy

 

[JC]

I have had players that have never run a real rack in their lives make 5 balls with the magic rack and run out more than one time in a short race.

No thank you

JC

 

[00john]

Please answer this question ONLY if you play in pool tournaments.

I would like to get a consensus of opinion. It seems that I regularly play in pool tournaments and playing at different establishments it is VERY DIFFICULT to get a tight rack playing 9 ball or 10 ball.

If you play in pool tournaments, would you pay, $5 to use a Magic Rack or some other template rack, just for the event?

If not, what fee would you pay to use BRAND NEW template rack? And if you have a particular brand that you like to use, please state which one you like best.

If you don't believe in the Magic Rack and feel it should not be used in tournament play, please state why?

I've been thinking a lot about why the template racks are not used more often and think that the main reason is that some of the better rackers don't want to put everyone else on the same level playing field and will ***** about having it in the tournaments.

Also, if they said you could use a Magic Rack or other approved template rack for racking purposes or another kind of rack, say a standard wood, metal of even plastic rack, would you use the standard rack?

Thanks for responses from all of you tournament players.

JoeyA

I play pool tournaments regularly. The Magic rack is allowed in BCA sanctioned tournaments. I use it every chance i get. It gives both players the same rack. No "you Whiny Rackmasters" do not run out every rack when using the Magic Rack! You are not DAz, shane, Dennis or Thorsten. Get over your delusional inflated opinion of your weak game. If you dont like the Magic Rack its because youre askeered hahaha. If a player doesnt mind using THe MR you are saying im gonna whup your namby pamby victim butt! Lets see what you can do?

 

[rhatten]

I have had players that have never run a real rack in their lives make 5 balls with the magic rack and run out more than one time in a short race.

No thank you

JC

...with 9 racked on the spot?? and 3 balls across the head string?? what tour does the prodigy play on?

Um not...

 

[Banks]

I play pool tournaments regularly. The Magic rack is allowed in BCA sanctioned tournaments. I use it every chance i get. It gives both players the same rack. No "you Whiny Rackmasters" do not run out every rack when using the Magic Rack! You are not DAz, shane, Dennis or Thorsten. Get over your delusional inflated opinion of your weak game. If you dont like the Magic Rack its because youre askeered hahaha. If a player doesnt mind using THe MR you are saying im gonna whup your namby pamby victim butt! Lets see what you can do?

Meh. I've seen people run racks very easily using it - players that are high-B to mid-A in the area. If they were to challenge me with a MR, I'd decline. Otherwise, I'd probably offer them the 8, maybe the 7. I'm not inclined to use it, because I don't think it creates a game - I think it creates a drill.

 

[Justin Bergman]

Magic rack is just OK. You get the same rack every time so that's good but the downside it's way to easy for better players to run the same rack out every time. So you almost have to win the first break in every match. Takes a lot of the skill out of the game like safties, kicking, and all that. For big table 10 ball it's not so bad. But if I'm playing a good player I wanna use a wooden rack.

 

[victorl]

Thank for chipping in, Justin. It's always nice to get input and perspective from a top player, there aren't many around these parts nowadays.

 

[00john]

Magic rack is just OK. You get the same rack every time so that's good but the downside it's way to easy for better players to run the same rack out every time. So you almost have to win the first break in every match. Takes a lot of the skill out of the game like safties, kicking, and all that. For big table 10 ball it's not so bad. But if I'm playing a good player I wanna use a wooden rack.

All good points you make Justin. My perspective is different probably because of my skill level and local competition. Runouts are more rare at our local or regional tournaments.

 

[DAVE_M]

Yes

It's too easy to rig the rack. At least with a standard rack, you will see them massaging the rack for hours. The magic rack gets everything tight, but I've seen how one could shift the balls slightly in their favor.

And I agree with Justin, it's just too easy, especially on a barbox.

 

[Neil]

Something I haven't seen mentioned at all...if I have to pay $5 extra for the rack, I want that money going to designated rackers. No more rigging the racks with the wooden rack. Non-partial rackers solves the problem. (As long as the rackers are at least adept at knowing how to rack the balls correctly and where to rack them)

 

[Bambu]

Please answer this question ONLY if you play in pool tournaments.

I would like to get a consensus of opinion. It seems that I regularly play in pool tournaments and playing at different establishments it is VERY DIFFICULT to get a tight rack playing 9 ball or 10 ball.

If you play in pool tournaments, would you pay, $5 to use a Magic Rack or some other template rack, just for the event?

If not, what fee would you pay to use BRAND NEW template rack? And if you have a particular brand that you like to use, please state which one you like best.

If you don't believe in the Magic Rack and feel it should not be used in tournament play, please state why?

I've been thinking a lot about why the template racks are not used more often and think that the main reason is that some of the better rackers don't want to put everyone else on the same level playing field and will ***** about having it in the tournaments.

Also, if they said you could use a Magic Rack or other approved template rack for racking purposes or another kind of rack, say a standard wood, metal of even plastic rack, would you use the standard rack?

Thanks for responses from all of you tournament players.

JoeyA

The better rackers want to keep their advantages, I agree that's a part of it. But tournament directors want things done quickly, and the MR would help speed things along. So why don't they use it more? Companies like delta provide sponsorship, the MR does not.

Personally, I don't like the MR unless its a C or below tournament. To me, bad breaks, clusters, and racking are part of the game. The MR makes 9 ball feel more like playing the ghost. I'd still play though, if that became the new rule.

 

[JoeyA]

Magic rack is just OK. You get the same rack every time so that's good but the downside it's way to easy for better players to run the same rack out every time. So you almost have to win the first break in every match. Takes a lot of the skill out of the game like safties, kicking, and all that. For big table 10 ball it's not so bad. But if I'm playing a good player I wanna use a wooden rack.

It is true that the Magic Rack makes it easier for better players to run out the rack every time.

However, better players generally are better rackers and know how to rack the balls better, creating the gaps or no gaps the also increase their chances to run out the same rack every time.

One of the biggest problems facing pool is that there is not enough professional players (and money) to support professional pool tournaments, so the lesser players for various and valid reasons decide to participate in the higher level tournaments. Many of the lesser players soon become discouraged when they see the vast difference between their skill and that of the higher level players. As the lesser players decide to "save their money" and not play in these events, the higher level players return on their investment starts to suffer even more.

Even in shorter races (which make tournaments a gamble for everyone) the cream always seems to rise to the top, even with rack your own, alternate break, nine ball doesn't count in the two bottom corners on the break, no 3 foul rule etc.

Reading the many comments by tournament players and listening to the laments of those lesser players who try to compete in the higher level events, I am leaning more and more toward the Magic Rack, 9 ball on the spot, 3 balls past the head string, alternate breaks, shorter races.

Sorry we missed you at the big calcutta,
Super 9 Ball, White Diamonds weekend event this past weekend which paid out approximately $90,000.00.


Big Action match at Buffalo Billiards in Metairie, LA, tonight 4 p.m.ish between Jeremy Jones and Danny Smith.

JoeyA

 

[JoeyA]

The bigger the pie, the larger the slice.

Something I haven't seen mentioned at all...if I have to pay $5 extra for the rack, I want that money going to designated rackers. No more rigging the racks with the wooden rack. Non-partial rackers solves the problem. (As long as the rackers are at least adept at knowing how to rack the balls correctly and where to rack them)

So you're saying if you paid $5 for a Magic Rack, you would want designated rackers to rack the balls. I'm not sure if the money makes sense or not.

64 players at $5 a rack is only $320. I don't know how many designated rackers you can get for a two day tournament.

I guess designated rackers are a completely different subject because of the cost involved.

With Magic Rack, rack your own, 9 ball on the spot, 3 balls past the head string, alternate break, seems to be my preference at least at this point. Also maybe 2 ball at the back of the rack.......

Still open to other suggestions. Just trying to find something that will lower the whine from everyone and increase participation in pool tournaments.

JoeyA

 

[CokerFan82]

My conscience prevents me from intentionally putting a "rack" on my opponents, but I can't stand when the guy has to be told to rerack .. Over and over and over because they've never played in a RYO tournament and had to learn how to rack the balls tight! For that reason when I'm playing loser racks, I'd prefer to use the magic rack or other template to be fair. When I'm racking for my opponent and they make the wing ball nearly every break and I'm coming up dry with a better/more controlled break, it makes me want to throw things.

 

[fastone371]

How about if they just get rid of those crappy plastic triangles? I do not have problems with the wooden Diamond rack or my Delta 13, only problems with that .99 cent plastic triangle that every bar with a Valley has. The rack fits too tight, you can barely get it off without bumping balls, and when you try to push the balls forward in the rack it just flexes the triangle. It is not that tough to get a decent rack with a halfway decent triangle. When you watch streamed tournaments you still see players tapping the balls around when using the magic rack.

 

[rhatten]

How about if they just get rid of those crappy plastic triangles? I do not have problems with the wooden Diamond rack or my Delta 13, only problems with that .99 cent plastic triangle that every bar with a Valley has. The rack fits too tight, you can barely get it off without bumping balls, and when you try to push the balls forward in the rack it just flexes the triangle. It is not that tough to get a decent rack with a halfway decent triangle. When you watch streamed tournaments you still see players tapping the balls around when using the magic rack.

The rack isn't the real issue ..weather its wood, plastic, metal isn't the point we are making... its the pot holes in the clothe (and the spot) that allows balls to drift away from each other (even on new cloth sometimes) and thats if all of the balls are of matching size. God knows in some of the older balls sets what the 'interball' contact pressures end up being (if any thing). This is why the Magic rack type of equipment is necessary to keep down the discrepancies between the different ball sets and different table 'rack location' conditions so that the unknowing/knowing 'Cheats' of the racking process can be held to a minimum.

Whats fair for one should be fair for all...

Joey get those rules together and set the new "Pro" fair game 'minimal standard' for the next generation of 9 ball... we need more people to play and become reinterested in what 9 ball can offer... As it is now... not gunna get any more gaff 9 ball tournament moneys from me (and apparently many others).

Randy

 

[JoeyA]

My conscience prevents me from intentionally putting a "rack" on my opponents, but I can't stand when the guy has to be told to rerack .. Over and over and over because they've never played in a RYO tournament and had to learn how to rack the balls tight! For that reason when I'm playing loser racks, I'd prefer to use the magic rack or other template to be fair. When I'm racking for my opponent and they make the wing ball nearly every break and I'm coming up dry with a better/more controlled break, it makes me want to throw things.

You make GREAT POINTS!

JoeyA

 

[Bambu]

One more thing I forgot to mention. If you rack with the 9 on the spot with the MR, balls aren't wired to pockets anymore. Overall, racking the 9 on the spot might make it harder to pocket a ball on the break, MR or no MR. That sort of defeats the whole purpose. I want to make that wing ball, just not 75% of the time.

 

[JoeyA]

No tapping-in needed.

Another important point is the fact that the Magic Rack allows a tight rack WITHOUT having to tap in the balls which creates the divots which cause many of the racking problems.

JoeyA