Open Letter To Mr Andrews, Mr Sugel and Mr Trudeau

well for your info, trainer is also the person who cost my brother a qualifying spot in the world championships by sharking him repeaditly. he avidly told all players that they are idiots to be sponsored by this cheat
 
Cameron Smith said:
y'know the problem with internet forums are two fold. 1. anyone can post anything. 2. you can't truly know who people are in many situations.

I can post "Scott Smith recently had a blow out with Barry Berhman over alligations of match fixing. He told me that he was done with the US Open". This is an entirely untrue story, however it suggests "insider information". Had it been posted as truth by someone else, an unknown, it would have started a multi page thread (like this one) with people debating it's validity (as people are here).

As for this Big Money dude, I will believe the information if I hear it confirmed by someone I know to be credible. That this person posted these accusations a few days ago and leaves us to speculate doesn't say much.

This is true if it's a pretty new poster that nobody knows, or you are known to tell tall tales on the forums frequently. When you are a longtime user of a forum, you build up a reputation on a personal level with other members who know you by your posts, and they decide if you are someone to believe or not. For example, 8-ball bernie has been caught lying a few times, and he says very strange things often. So on a touchy subject like this, if he were to comment on it, nobody would take his word for it. But when you get a well known and respected forum member to say something, most people do take their word for it.
 
Cameron Smith said:
I will believe the information if I hear it confirmed by someone I know to be credible.

Timberly has confirmed most of what "Big Money" has said. I personally would believe anything that Timberly told me and put her name on. She would not risk putting her name on something that was not true.
 
Eydie Romano said:
Timberly has confirmed most of what "Big Money" has said. I personally would believe anything that Timberly told me and put her name on. She would not risk putting her name on something that was not true.
In reading Big Money's posting yet again, there appears to me to be a lot of embellishment in Big Money's posting. :eek: :rolleyes:
Has Timberly or anyone else confirmed whether the following summary statement that Big Money made is credible? "The ITP is full of crooks. Be forwarned people, Mr Trudeau is known for his scams, this is just one of them."


In the context of all the money the players have made over the past year, it doesn't appear to me that the IPT is a scam that is full of crooks. Big Money's summary statement is simply not credible.

IMO, all things considered, the IPT has been one of the best things to come down the pike in quite a while. Obviously, many mistakes were made over the past year, but hopefully the IPT and the players will learn from them and strive to do better.
 
PoolSharkAllen said:
In reading Big Money's posting yet again, there appears to me to be a lot of embellishment in Big Money's posting. :eek: :rolleyes:
Has Timberly or anyone else confirmed whether the following summary statement that Big Money made is credible? "The ITP is full of crooks. Be forwarned people, Mr Trudeau is known for his scams, this is just one of them."


In the context of all the money the players have made over the past year, it doesn't appear to me that the IPT is a scam that is full of crooks. Big Money's summary statement is simply not credible.

IMO, all things considered, the IPT has been one of the best things to come down the pike in quite a while. Obviously, many mistakes were made over the past year, but hopefully the IPT and the players will learn from them and strive to do better.

That is very true. Whether or not Trudeau gets rich from this endeavour, he has provided the opportunity for many players to have the best year of their careers, money wise. I don't mind that kind of scam, as long as the players continue making lots of money. But if that is the case, you can't really call it a scam can you?

Timberly has confirmed some of the information in Big Money's post, however in her post it comes across much less diabolical.
 
Big Money said:
Mr. Sigel and Mr. Trudeau, we all know that your have your hands in this pot with Mr. Trainer. We all know that YOU own a percentage of the players who were so eager to sign before they considered the consequences of the contact they signed with you. In some states it would be called racketeering.

In view of Renee Sigel's response in this thread,
http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=41341 , I think that the above statement claiming that KT and Mike Sigel have sideline contracts with Mr. Trainer also lacks credibility.
 
Big Money has made the following claims:
1. Shady dealings from day one on whom was "picked" to participate in the IPT.
2. Favoritism for elected players.
3. Mr Trudeau and Mr Andrews sat at dinner before the Vegas tournament slating in the spots of the players where evere they wished to put them. This is a known fact that was reported by JR Calvert of InsidePool. From what we were told, you awoke JR Calvert in the middle of the night to have him pull the article they did regarding this mismanagement of tournament bracketing.
4. There is no contact phone number for your so called office in the Chicago area. There are only email addresses. If there was really a office with a personal who forgot to mark "Saturday Delivery" on the Fed Ex parcel with the checks in it, there should be a phone where she called for the pick up at.

On points #1-3 above, other posters in this thread have made the valid point that it is Kevin Trudeau's tour and he can run it as he wishes. If KT wants to favor certain players, it's within his right to do so. If KT were smart, he would try harder to avoid the appearance of favoritism.

On point #4 above, while it would be highly desirable for the IPT to list their contact phone number, that hardly makes the IPT a scam as claimed by Big Money.

In summary, IMO, I think that Big Money's posting claiming that the IPT is a scam being run by crooks lacks credibility.
 
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Here's are some questions for Big Money or anyone else who can answer them:

Does anyone have an address for the IPT? How is the IPT structured/set up? Where is the business registered?

And, a promise IS a contract. Since Kevin is the founder of the IPT and Deno is the CEO, they are both liable for promises that they made which resulted in monetary outlay by people based on those promises. This includes the players, the backers, the room owners.

Deno, please bring some clarity to all this so that we can put it to bed and enjoy and supoprt the IPT. Keeping us in the dark so that we have to endlessly speculate is only causing the negativity to spiral more out of control.

It has been shown several times that negative publicity through the web can bring down companies and politicians. Please be an upstanding member of this community and inform us so that we can continue to be positive about this venture.

John Barton
Billiard Stuff Maker and Supplier
 
onepocketchump said:
And, a promise IS a contract. Since Kevin is the founder of the IPT and Deno is the CEO, they are both liable for promises that they made which resulted in monetary outlay by people based on those promises. This includes the players, the backers, the room owners.

John Barton
Billiard Stuff Maker and Supplier

John, a "promise" in not a contract. to have a contract there has to be a "meeting of the minds". if one party thinks the promise means one thing and the other thinks it means something else there's no contract. also you can promise someone anything and legally have no obligation to deliver. now if the promise is in writing that's a whole different story.
 
In all this speculation I find it interesting that Deno or any others directly involved with the IPT never seem to come forward and put and end to all the controversy before it spirals out of control...
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Craig Fales said:
In all this speculation I find it interesting that Deno or any others directly involved with the IPT never seem to come forward and put and end to all the controversy before it spirals out of control...
I've been thinking the very same thing. Seems it would be very simple for Deno to set the record straight. I guess he has his own reasons for not doing so. I just can't imagine why he doesn't because Deno is well respected here.
 
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Craig Fales said:
In all this speculation I find it interesting that Deno or any others directly involved with the IPT never seem to come forward and put and end to all the controversy before it spirals out of control...
Agreed. Most good business managers that I know of try to keep their employees in the loop, so that gossip and rumor-mongering doesn't get out-of-hand. KT and Deno have yet to learn that lesson.
 
Craig Fales said:
In all this speculation I find it interesting that Deno or any others directly involved with the IPT never seem to come forward and put and end to all the controversy before it spirals out of control...

Considering the volume and tone of many posts here, I don't really blame them for not being here. It would be a full time job just to respond to the questions, and no doubt, any response would end up generating a dozen more questions. Maybe they have more pressing issues to deal with.
Steve
 
skins said:
John, a "promise" in not a contract. to have a contract there has to be a "meeting of the minds". if one party thinks the promise means one thing and the other thinks it means something else there's no contract. also you can promise someone anything and legally have no obligation to deliver. now if the promise is in writing that's a whole different story.

Check your contract law. A promise is indeed a contract. How much of a contract is what is open to interpretation.

If I promise to do something on the condition that you do something first and you do it and I don't then I am in breach of contract. In this case Kevin Trudeau and Deno Andrews have promised to pay the players certain amounts of money IF the players would part with certain amounts of money AND reach certain levels in tournaments promoted by the IPT, represented by Mr. Trudeau and Mr. Andrews. It is well documented that several hundred players have fulfilled their side of the contract and incurred monetary expense based on the promises of Mr. Trudeau and Mr. Andrews. According to contract law if the IPT does not fulfill the promises made then the players are entitled to at least damages equal to the expenses they incurred.

If you purchase something to be delivered is the store not promising to deliver the items?

If the roofer promises to do your roof if you pay him in advance is he required to fulfill his end?

Obviously most of the transactions between people are not in writing. They are nonetheless contracts for goods and services.

The IPT has advertised certain benefits in return for certain investments. They have advertised this as guaranteed, not speculative. There are two options, either return the money they have received plus whatever expenses the players incurred or fulfill the promises.

At this point they have agreed to fulfill the promises through Reno. The players agreed to accept the ammended payment schedule. Some of us would say that the players had no choice, which they didn't. It was within each player's right however to obtain an attorney and sue for the money owed to them if they did not want to agree to the changed payment terms. Now however the players have agreed to an unspecified and indeterminate payment schedule and they have to live with it.

Should the IPT renege on the payments I would reccomend that all of the players chip in for ONE ATTORNEY and file a class action lawsuit.

I also heartily reccomend that everyone who has a financial interest in this begin making printouts of every single IPT page and copies of every recording. If the IPT website goes "down" or the recordings disappear then I gues you all can surmise that things aren't all okay.

I had to go through this with Instroke and the webpage printouts I used were admitted into evidence and were helpful in achieving a satisfactory victory for me.

John
 
tsw_521 said:
Lawyers working on contingency, hedge fund managers, and software consultancies aren't sports agents. You're comparing apples to oranges. The risk factors and level of involvement are entirely different. Trainer's deal isn't close to market.

Having been out of touch for many years, I'm not sure about now, but, at one time an agent for an NFL player could not exceed 8%.
 
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