daytonajoe
Deceased
and...
Own the bar boxes, the video games, as well as the juke box !!!!
Own the bar boxes, the video games, as well as the juke box !!!!
opening a small room
- Thread starter dirtydog48
- Start date
daytonajoe said:
Great advice.
I owned a room like you want for 5 years before I changed it into a billiard room bar and grille.
Many many times I wish I had the old room back. Less headache. Easy to run. Plenty of playing time. Less pressure.
I had 15 tables, 5 Gold Crown's for us serious guys and 10 bar boxes for the kids. 4 of the bar boxes were coin operated for the "cheapies" and the rest were $3 per hour per person.
Summers were hard but not as hard as they are now. My nut was a little higher than yours. Probably took me $250 per day to break even after paying employees. I was able to gross $18000 for the best months and $15000 for the next best months. There were at least 6 months a year that you just break even. I always had enough to pay the bills.
On the side I had a poker machine. Which was real sweet. I treated it as mad money. Never depended on it for payinng bills.
Now, I have to do almost $40,000 per month to break even. Summers are killers. Winter has to be HUGE to make it. Pool is on a down cycle. League play is down, the fad has worn. League play used to be our base. Now we need sports bar, karaoke, bands and other gimmicks to make it.
If you do you homework and want it you can make it. But be ready to work every hour of every day for 2-5 years.
Rent decent cues.
100$ cue will pay for itself quick @ 2$ A pop.
100$ cue will pay for itself quick @ 2$ A pop.
Nit said:
As in, you break it, you bought it.
Interesting timing on this thread, as my business partner and I have recently opened a room quite similar to DirtyDog's idea.
I really appreciate Linda's suggestions. We use some of them now, and I'm definitely open to incorporating some others.
We have a 12 table room in NW Pennsylvania, on a main drag, with almost no foot traffic. Used tables, but in great condition. Championship Tour edition on Gandy's Very nicely done, and getting tons of compliments on how we put it together. Players cues for house cues, jukebox, pop and snacks, a couple video games, two TV's.
So who comes in? Mostly kids, a fair number of families, some bar players that want to play on bigger equipment, folks on dates. We offer instruction from a BCA recognized instructor. A pro shop for tip and ferrule repair. Offering table recovery.
We're open from 2-midnight every day, and have no employees. We work full-time jobs already, and have our spouses cover the day hours. Will be willing to open earlier in the day, and might stay open later on Fridays and Saturdays.
Daytime is dead right now, since kids have school and seniors haven't found the place yet. 8pm till close is 90% of our business.
I'd like the groups thoughts on allowing BYOB in this room. We don't currently allow it, but haven't ruled it out either. There are some serious pros and cons to going that route, so we're not decided yet.
A liquor license is prohibitively expensive, like about 50k or so. Not happening. We appeal to kids and families, so letting folks bring in beer would change the atmosphere significantly, not to mention adding on to the work load and safety concerns. My understanding is that in PA, as long as we don't serve or store customers beverages, we have no liability or ID responsibility as a bar would, but the issue isn't completely clear. If someone brought in a six-pack, drank four, and left with two unfinished, we'd have to show that we didn't serve the beer to him. I've heard that requiring receipt of purchase would take care of that. Lots of rumor as to what needs to be done. I'm not inclined to have to take care of inebriated customers, but I'm sure it goes with the territory.
We'd not make anything on beer sales, of course, but would hopefully keep some customers there longer than otherwise. Also, we should gain folks who only play in bars.
Has anyone played with BYOB in their room, or spent time in a room that offers it and has any opinions?
In regards to the cue rental, I agree with Nit. We offer decent house cues as standard equipment, and see no need to rent our "for-sale" cues. Fortunately, our customers are taking surprisingly good care of our equipment. I haven't had anything break in the month we've been open. Heck, haven't even needed to place cues back in the racks, as the players are all doing in themselves. Strangest thing I've ever seen.
-Padron-
I really appreciate Linda's suggestions. We use some of them now, and I'm definitely open to incorporating some others.
We have a 12 table room in NW Pennsylvania, on a main drag, with almost no foot traffic. Used tables, but in great condition. Championship Tour edition on Gandy's Very nicely done, and getting tons of compliments on how we put it together. Players cues for house cues, jukebox, pop and snacks, a couple video games, two TV's.
So who comes in? Mostly kids, a fair number of families, some bar players that want to play on bigger equipment, folks on dates. We offer instruction from a BCA recognized instructor. A pro shop for tip and ferrule repair. Offering table recovery.
We're open from 2-midnight every day, and have no employees. We work full-time jobs already, and have our spouses cover the day hours. Will be willing to open earlier in the day, and might stay open later on Fridays and Saturdays.
Daytime is dead right now, since kids have school and seniors haven't found the place yet. 8pm till close is 90% of our business.
I'd like the groups thoughts on allowing BYOB in this room. We don't currently allow it, but haven't ruled it out either. There are some serious pros and cons to going that route, so we're not decided yet.
A liquor license is prohibitively expensive, like about 50k or so. Not happening. We appeal to kids and families, so letting folks bring in beer would change the atmosphere significantly, not to mention adding on to the work load and safety concerns. My understanding is that in PA, as long as we don't serve or store customers beverages, we have no liability or ID responsibility as a bar would, but the issue isn't completely clear. If someone brought in a six-pack, drank four, and left with two unfinished, we'd have to show that we didn't serve the beer to him. I've heard that requiring receipt of purchase would take care of that. Lots of rumor as to what needs to be done. I'm not inclined to have to take care of inebriated customers, but I'm sure it goes with the territory.
We'd not make anything on beer sales, of course, but would hopefully keep some customers there longer than otherwise. Also, we should gain folks who only play in bars.
Has anyone played with BYOB in their room, or spent time in a room that offers it and has any opinions?
In regards to the cue rental, I agree with Nit. We offer decent house cues as standard equipment, and see no need to rent our "for-sale" cues. Fortunately, our customers are taking surprisingly good care of our equipment. I haven't had anything break in the month we've been open. Heck, haven't even needed to place cues back in the racks, as the players are all doing in themselves. Strangest thing I've ever seen.
-Padron-
Your Local APA/BCA/TAP Operators
Get with these Ladies/Gents and stock your room at least 4 nights a week with League Players, they will eat/drink and come by on that off night with dates and friends...as for daytime hours...I like the Pool w/ Lunch deal and I frequent all my local rooms that do FREE Pool on Sat & Sun Daytime hrs., (11:30-3:00/12:00-6:00). But I think the first thing you need to do is establish yourself as a 'League Friendly Room'...host them support them, find a local Pro for Clinics and/or 'Play the Pro Nights', and I think you'll be off to a great start!
Best of Luck
Get with these Ladies/Gents and stock your room at least 4 nights a week with League Players, they will eat/drink and come by on that off night with dates and friends...as for daytime hours...I like the Pool w/ Lunch deal and I frequent all my local rooms that do FREE Pool on Sat & Sun Daytime hrs., (11:30-3:00/12:00-6:00). But I think the first thing you need to do is establish yourself as a 'League Friendly Room'...host them support them, find a local Pro for Clinics and/or 'Play the Pro Nights', and I think you'll be off to a great start!
Best of Luck
DRINKS & APA
Comet Billiards Has No Drinks, They Have About 20 Apa Teams & On Wed. They Have About 10 Tap Teams. So Not Having A Bar Will Not Damage Any Pool Team Play.
Comet Billiards Has No Drinks, They Have About 20 Apa Teams & On Wed. They Have About 10 Tap Teams. So Not Having A Bar Will Not Damage Any Pool Team Play.
Just one more thought that I didn't see mentioned... It sounds like you're catering to the young crowd, the children, the future of our sport. That's all well and good, but keep in mind that you will lose some adult business because of that. There are plenty of pool players who would prefer not to be around youngsters while playing pool.
My few suggestions would be;
Beer/Booze = money. (enough said)
Leagues = Regulars ... Get leagues playing in the place right away... target some teams that play in local leagues to see if they are unhappy and would like to move... call them near the end of their season and just before the next one starts.
Friday Night Tournaments - gets people to drink at your place = more money
Monday Night free winners table - let one of the bar boxes be a winner stays on for free table... gets people in on a night they wouldn't normally be there.... and they have a few drinks = more money.
Snooker table? Only if it is free and you have lots of space... I love snooker, but it makes no money for the space it takes up.
Food... or even good snackes... get Pizzas delived and sell 'em by the slice = double your investment.
Per hour rate in the evening/ Flat rate before/until 6pm
Keep tables PERFECT... or at least level and clean.
That's about all I can think of,
Chris
Beer/Booze = money. (enough said)
Leagues = Regulars ... Get leagues playing in the place right away... target some teams that play in local leagues to see if they are unhappy and would like to move... call them near the end of their season and just before the next one starts.
Friday Night Tournaments - gets people to drink at your place = more money
Monday Night free winners table - let one of the bar boxes be a winner stays on for free table... gets people in on a night they wouldn't normally be there.... and they have a few drinks = more money.
Snooker table? Only if it is free and you have lots of space... I love snooker, but it makes no money for the space it takes up.
Food... or even good snackes... get Pizzas delived and sell 'em by the slice = double your investment.
Per hour rate in the evening/ Flat rate before/until 6pm
Keep tables PERFECT... or at least level and clean.
That's about all I can think of,
Chris
I can not speak for most of the country but in Louisiana and Texas towns and small cities only dives with maybe three used bar boxes make any money.
You are going to go broke trying to run a pool hall. You have to concentrate on making money on booze and food.
Remember FOOD, BEER, FOOD, BEER and maybe strippers.
You are going to go broke trying to run a pool hall. You have to concentrate on making money on booze and food.
Remember FOOD, BEER, FOOD, BEER and maybe strippers.
LOCATION LOCATION LOCATION, and that is no joke. There are 2 high schools by pool hall where I work and a well used bus route and the pool hall is literally off the sevice road by a major expressway (LIE) which is great for bussiness. The pool hall I work at is fairly small with 15 9 footers and 2 Ping Pong Tables at rates of $6.50/2 people per hour from, and a *Special* rate of $8.00 for 2hrs/2people from 1pm-5pm. All and all the pool hall makes a $110-$150 perday from 1-5pm. It only servers non-alchoholic drinks and chips and candy snacks. You are right though, as of night thats where the real money is made sometimes the pool hall will not get rollin as they say till after 10 pm till like 3 or 4 in the morning.... I have been there at all times.. and these kids spend money like you would not believe, they spend it because their friends are there and it is a good environment... meaning the people who work there are friendly and funny and make jokes on whatever is up for discussion keeping that good mood rolling. I put the T.V.s to whatever sports is at the time. If there were a problem there is always a few regulars to calm it down. Owner pays 'bout $9000/month
Nit said:
Comet Billiards isn't really a good example of a non-alcoholic room doing good league business. Comet is easily the best room in New Jersey, and probably one of the best in the country, with 20 GCIV's and enough room to cartwheel between tables.
They have major tournaments regularly, and generally the players within 100 miles of the place visit Comet rather frequently. A place like that would be the exception when it comes to nonalcoholic leagues; your average poolhall is unlikely to get any league action w/o a liquor license.
my 2 cents.
-Roger
eastcoast_chris said:
He already explained in an earlier post why there will be no beer/booze in his place regardless of the profit margin.