Opinion on a Frank Paradise

CueNewb

CueNewb

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
So I have this cue that is an original by Frank Paradise. The catch is, from what I was told, the cue is like a "sam paio" coversion by Paradise. I went to the Valley Forge cue convention a few years ago an got various opinions. The most positive feedback ive got, was from a gentleman that had a hand in or was the writer of the blue book of cues ( I cant remember his name it was some time ago) He said that it was worth some money, but whether or not I would be able to get a collector to take it off my hands is another story =)
Please give me your opinion on what you think this cue is worth.
I am very ignorant when it comes to cues, so any help you guys can give me will be appreciated. Thanks in advance.


http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd22/taintedevl/IMG_7955.jpg
http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd22/taintedevl/IMG_7954.jpg
http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd22/taintedevl/IMG_7952.jpg
http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd22/taintedevl/IMG_7949.jpg
http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd22/taintedevl/IMG_7944.jpg
http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd22/taintedevl/IMG_7943.jpg
http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd22/taintedevl/IMG_7941.jpg
 
Sampaio Premier Conversion

Hey, it looks like a Sampaio Premier cue that was converted!?

I have no idea what the cue might be worth.....does it roll straight together and apart? Any significant defects?

TATE and a few others here might be able to give you a ballpark but, it is a strange and rare piece :rolleyes:

I sold a Sampaio Premier a year or so ago for about $400 with one original shaft it was about 90%.....the 3rd Ed. of the BB calls it out as follows:

$800 at 98%, $400 at 90%, $325 at 70%

Best of luck with your sale.....cool cue for sure :cool:
 
CueNewb said:
So I have this cue that is an original by Frank Paradise. The catch is, from what I was told, the cue is like a "sam paio" coversion by Paradise. I went to the Valley Forge cue convention a few years ago an got various opinions. The most positive feedback ive got, was from a gentleman that had a hand in or was the writer of the blue book of cues ( I cant remember his name it was some time ago) He said that it was worth some money, but whether or not I would be able to get a collector to take it off my hands is another story =)
Please give me your opinion on what you think this cue is worth.
I am very ignorant when it comes to cues, so any help you guys can give me will be appreciated. Thanks in advance.


http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd22/taintedevl/IMG_7955.jpg
http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd22/taintedevl/IMG_7954.jpg
http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd22/taintedevl/IMG_7952.jpg
http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd22/taintedevl/IMG_7949.jpg
http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd22/taintedevl/IMG_7944.jpg
http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd22/taintedevl/IMG_7943.jpg
http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd22/taintedevl/IMG_7941.jpg
Click to expand...

Wow, that's really unusual. It's definitely a collector's piece. Can you show some more pictures of the joint and forearm area? I am looking for a picture of the joint screw from the side. The plastic in the butt sleeve is called "marblette" which Paradise used extensively. The shafts look original to me including the screw on ferrules and the screws. I didn't know he did any Sampaio conversions.

Chris
 
CueNewb said:
So I have this cue that is an original by Frank Paradise. The catch is, from what I was told, the cue is like a "sam paio" coversion by Paradise. I went to the Valley Forge cue convention a few years ago an got various opinions. The most positive feedback ive got, was from a gentleman that had a hand in or was the writer of the blue book of cues ( I cant remember his name it was some time ago) He said that it was worth some money, but whether or not I would be able to get a collector to take it off my hands is another story =)
Please give me your opinion on what you think this cue is worth.
I am very ignorant when it comes to cues, so any help you guys can give me will be appreciated. Thanks in advance.


http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd22/taintedevl/IMG_7955.jpg
http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd22/taintedevl/IMG_7954.jpg
http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd22/taintedevl/IMG_7952.jpg
http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd22/taintedevl/IMG_7949.jpg
http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd22/taintedevl/IMG_7944.jpg
http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd22/taintedevl/IMG_7943.jpg
http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd22/taintedevl/IMG_7941.jpg
Click to expand...

Please post some photo's of the cues joint area and the complete forearm.

Thanks
 
I agree that it is amazing what people come up with on this forum . Do you have an idea of the year this cue was made?

Now I know what I am going to do with my old Sampaio premier. Does anybody have any ideas about a cue builder to do a Sampaio conversion?
 
I am currently at work, I will try to take better pictures tonight. Thanks for the input guys.
By the way, the cue rolls straight, but i believe only one of the shafts are not perfectly straight. Dont remember which one. In the pics, there are 2 shafts that are unscrewed, that is because the 3rd one doesnt. So i cant tell if that one is his shaft or not, but it's solid like the other two, and they seem very similiar. So I am inclined to believe it is.
 
CueNewb said:
I am currently at work, I will try to take better pictures tonight. Thanks for the input guys.
By the way, the cue rolls straight, but i believe only one of the shafts are not perfectly straight. Dont remember which one. In the pics, there are 2 shafts that are unscrewed, that is because the 3rd one doesnt. So i cant tell if that one is his shaft or not, but it's solid like the other two, and they seem very similiar. So I am inclined to believe it is.
Click to expand...

I think all 3 shafts are original. Not all Paradise ferrules had screw on, some were glued. It's also possible the screw might still be be in there but it's seized up. Paradise used a different screw than Palmer. The Paradise screws were prone to seize up for some reason. Palmer changed this so they'll still uncrew easily after many years.

Chris
 
We saw this cue at valley forge. And made an offer. The issue with the cue is it's a gamble. As I told this gentleman, there is no way to prove that Frank did the work. He was told this by quite a few people. The parts are genuine Paradise. The name in the foil, Michale Bosone, is an old time tourney director. Again, it maybe a Paradise, or just parts put on a Sampaio. It's a real interesting cue for sure.

JV
 
classiccues said:
We saw this cue at valley forge. And made an offer. The issue with the cue is it's a gamble. As I told this gentleman, there is no way to prove that Frank did the work. He was told this by quite a few people. The parts are genuine Paradise. The name in the foil, Michale Bosone, is an old time tourney director. Again, it maybe a Paradise, or just parts put on a Sampaio. It's a real interesting cue for sure.

JV
Click to expand...

I think there's a way to determine if it's original. The Sampaio had an original butt sleeve removed or turned down to accommodate the Paradise parts. If the butt is disassembled, and the tenon holding the Paradise label is actually part of the Sampaio cue with the name label glued to it, then it's very likely to be original. It's very difficult to remove the name label without ruining it.

In other words, the tenon holding the butt pieces should be the same piece of wood of the Sampaio handle. If it's not, then I would suspect the cue's been doctored.

Chris
 
Tate, I'm not quite following how this would help. You could probably tell (infer) this about the tenon by removing the screw in the butt that holds the cap on....without disturbing things too much. To me the joint and butt sleeve all look right, but this cue is certainly an enigma. Best case to maximize value would obviously be to have a documentation from Frank on the cue. The owner should let this baby go on eBay with a no reserve auction. I couldn't even guess. It may bring $1500 or it may bring $3500....who knows. Somebody would have to like Paradise cues and Sampaio cues to play big, and I'm doubting there's many that fit that bill.
 
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classiccues said:
We saw this cue at valley forge. And made an offer. The issue with the cue is it's a gamble. As I told this gentleman, there is no way to prove that Frank did the work. He was told this by quite a few people. The parts are genuine Paradise. The name in the foil, Michale Bosone, is an old time tourney director. Again, it maybe a Paradise, or just parts put on a Sampaio. It's a real interesting cue for sure.

JV
Click to expand...
Hey Classic (JV) I do remember speaking to quite a few people about it, and like I said there were varying opinions. I do remember someone saying that it was a gamble, that there was no way of telling if Frank done it or not (that sounded like it was almost verbatum!) but I didnt know that michael bosone was an old tourney director. Some of the people at the show looked at the cue and unscrewed the tips and just smirked, like they knew something but didnt want to say. At the time, I didnt even know why they were unscrewing it. Someone even said if that isnt a paradise cue, they sure went through alot of trouble to make it look like one. In either case, I still have it, I dont recall your offer, but if you are still interested, you can PM me.
 
TATE said:
I think there's a way to determine if it's original. The Sampaio had an original butt sleeve removed or turned down to accommodate the Paradise parts. If the butt is disassembled, and the tenon holding the Paradise label is actually part of the Sampaio cue with the name label glued to it, then it's very likely to be original. It's very difficult to remove the name label without ruining it.

In other words, the tenon holding the butt pieces should be the same piece of wood of the Sampaio handle. If it's not, then I would suspect the cue's been doctored.

Chris
Click to expand...

This wouldn't prove much. The Paradise assembly looks to be a little bigger than what would have been there originally. Whether it's turned down, or if a dowel was inserted, wouldn't mean anything one way or the other IMHO. Because it could have been done both ways by Paradise, or by someone wanting to make a Paradise out of parts.
Basone was a hot head I have been told and he could have busted a cue and then had someone make something from the parts. Mark has a Diamond King that belonged to Basone in his collection.
Like I said its a crap shoot, but it is a great conversation piece.

JV
 
I would not get in a hurry to sell that cue. If you are able to gather some information about it, whitch may take some time and help, IE: this board! other paradise cues can easily be x-rayed to look for a typical style, olso people may be able to find some other documentation from old photos or??? whatever. If its a paradise, its a one of a kind, and worth a lot more than a "possible paradise". bye the way, I will give you a hundred dollars cash for it!
 
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Joint and forearm

Here are a couple of more pics as requested. =) enjoy

IMG_8000.jpg

IMG_7958.jpg

IMG_7967.jpg

IMG_7966.jpg

IMG_7965.jpg
 
jayman said:
I would not get in a hurry to sell that cue. If you are able to gather some information about it, whitch may take some time and help, IE: this board! other paradise cues can easily be x-rayed to look for a typical style, olso people may be able to find some other documentation from old photos or??? whatever. If its a paradise, its a one of a kind, and worth a lot more than a "possible paradise". bye the way, I will give you a hundred dollars cash for it!
Click to expand...
LOL jayman. I will consider your offer earnestly, but prudently take your advice instead!
 
cueaddicts said:
Tate, I'm not quite following how this would help. You could probably tell (infer) this about the tenon by removing the screw in the butt that holds the cap on....without disturbing things too much. To me the joint and butt sleeve all look right, but this cue is certainly an enigma. Best case to maximize value would obviously be to have a documentation from Frank on the cue. The owner should let this baby go on eBay with a no reserve auction. I couldn't even guess. It may bring $1500 or it may bring $3500....who knows. Somebody would have to like Paradise cues and Sampaio cues to play big, and I'm doubting there's many that fit that bill.
Click to expand...

The name labels are hard to remove intact without tearing or creasing it (they're just paper) , so what I'm saying is, if it's applied directly to a tenon that was turned on the Sampaio cues, chances are it's original, because it would be difficult to romove it from another cue and apply it directly to this one. I believe from the appearance of the cue that a tenon was turned onto the existing Sampaio handle. If it weren't, then I would be a little suspect, although Paradise could do it either way. But why would he cut off a part, bore and dowel it, when he could just easily turn the proper size tenon onto an existing handle?

Just a note the joint doesn't look like other joints I've seen on Paradise cues. If I were selling it, I would send the cue to Paul Rubino for an opinion and a letter.

Chris
 
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I never heard of what

The odds that Frank Paradise would take a carved piece of wood and do all that crap to it is just about zero. Only because you asked for honest opinions. I saw alot of Franks work when I lived in N.Y. .
If he built it he did it as a joke! Seriously it really does look like a bunch of parts jammed onto a carved butt. But you never know.
Nick :)
 
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