Opinion on "What if a cue gets lost in transition"

MasterClass said:
Hello Everyone.

In light of some recent event that happened here. I would like to hear some opinion with regards to this topic.

Suppose a Seller sells a cue to a buyer in another country.

If the cue gets lost during shipping. Who bears the responsibility and losses?

If the cue gets seized at destination customs who bears responsibility and losses?

Because there seems to be some conflicting out come to 2 scenario one where a cue was lost and the buyer assumed responsibility. i think it was a purpleheart/purpleheart SW. Another was when a cue was thought to be lost and the buyer reversed payment leaving the seller with nothing if the cue was truly lost.

Is there a guideline or any opinion how it should be? What if the cue is seized in custom and a fine is required to secure its release. Then who to bear this cost?

It is not something that has happened to me. I would not discount the possibility that I could so I would really like to hear some opinion and learn from any experiences.

Best regards
Chris
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My opinion is the shipper ultimately is responsible for delivering the cue unless the buyer is somehow negligent. There are many reasons for this. The prevaling notion on e-bay that insurance is an option for the buyer is illogical. The insurance should be automatically paid for by the seller if they want to cover themselves since they are the ones who will be re-imbursed by it.

Would I ship a $1000 cue without a signature, without insurance, without verifying the address 3 times? No. That's why I haven't lost anything. Would I live without health insurance, car insurance, or homeowners insurance (assuming I could afford it) ?

No, I wouldn't, so why would I ship a cue without covering myself?

Chris

PS. I've shipped about 6 times overseas, and a number to Canada. I've used International Express mail and haven't had a problem, but it sure is nerve racking.
 
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then I guess you better not buy from me because if your package gets lost in transit and your overseas " as you are" and I have the receites to prove I shipped it and the post office won't pay off don't expect me to because your 'll be shit out of luck , good luck to you because I think if you think anyone will be responcible for it your dreaming or living in another world out there and if someone here would say they would make good on it I would like to here from them.

no insult intended, but just giving you a fact.

Steven


Double-Dave said:
We disagree on this subject. Like I wrote above, insurance often isn't available for international shipments or costs so much (you usually have to take a faster, more expensive way of shipping if you want insurance) that it just isn't worth it. So simply because you offered the buyer the option of insuring the package doesn't relieve you of your obligation IMO.

I basically feel that the insurance is something to ease the mind of THE SELLER. If the package gets lost, the buyer will contact the seller for a refund, not the post-office. The seller can then (if he got insurance) get his money back from usps or whatever.

The thing is IMO there is no grey area when it comes to shipping/receiving a package. It either gets there and the buyer is happy with it at which point the sellers responsibility stops. If the buyer isn't happy for any reason (item not as described, item didn't arrive, wrong item) the seller has to make things right. Ebay works pretty much the same way and I imagine the law works likes this too.

p.s. Keep in mind I normally buy and sell lower value cues, and try to make a buck or two off of it. If I were to buy for example a nice Scruggs as my new playing cue, then I would have it shipped Fedex or UPS overnight insured. However, if resale is your goal and you want to make a buck, then you have to take a little more risk.

And again, ivory getting seized by customs is a whole different story.
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Hi-Chris, "shipping out of the country"yes it is nerve racking, but say you have a cue coming in from germany and you tell the seller to insure it and he does and the cue ships and it gets lost in transit and the seller goes to where he shipped it from and they say another carrier picked it up from our bounderies and was past on and it is missing and there is nothing they can do because there insurance only covers there country with the insurance, so what then are you going to expect the seller to do to the lost of the cue and insurance and shipping, Do you expect him to take a lost, he shipped it, insured it,what would you expect of a seller with the receite that he can prove it was shipped and insured and no one will cover the insurance on it now.

Tell me!


Steven






TATE said:
My opinion is the shipper ultimately is responsible for delivering the cue unless the buyer is somehow negligent. There are many reasons for this. The prevaling notion on e-bay that insurance is an option for the buyer is illogical. The insurance should be automatically paid for by the seller if they want to cover themselves since they are the ones who will be re-imbursed by it.

Would I ship a $1000 cue without a signature, without insurance, without verifying the address 3 times? No. That's why I haven't lost anything. Would I live without health insurance, car insurance, or homeowners insurance (assuming I could afford it) ?

No, I wouldn't, so why would I ship a cue without covering myself?

Chris

PS. I've shipped about 6 times overseas, and a number to Canada. I've used International Express mail and haven't had a problem, but it sure is nerve racking.
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justabrake said:
Hi-Chris, "shipping out of the country"yes it is nerve racking, but say you have a cue coming in from germany and you tell the seller to insure it and he does and the cue ships and it gets lost in transit and the seller goes to where he shipped it from and they say another carrier picked it up from our bounderies and was past on and it is missing and there is nothing they can do because there insurance only covers there country with the insurance, so what then are you going to expect the seller to do to the lost of the cue and insurance and shipping, Do you expect him to take a lost, he shipped it, insured it,what would you expect of a seller with the receite that he can prove it was shipped and insured and no one will cover the insurance on it now.

Tell me!


Steven
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Steven, you got it. That question is the essence of what is being asked here IMO. I'm curious to hear others thoughts on this.....

A seller can require that the buyer pay the extra for the insurance, but that's stupid if it will not pay for the loss. Just for discussion purposes here, let's say a G.Szam worth $5000. The insurance fee for that will be $50 at a minimum. FedEx has told me that they WILL NOT COVER for the loss of such a "one of a kind" or "collectible" item. Doesn't matter what paperwork, appraisals, etc. you can produce. Their insurance policy apparently now excludes these such "unusual" items.

This is a very different situation than a joe-blow Schon (i.e. something that's readily available) valued at $300. I'm sure the insurance would no doubt cover that if lost.
 
justabrake said:
hasn't the post office told you once it leaves the country there not responcible anymore for it , I have been told that a few times, they say it's in anothers hands. your insurance for that item is only for the US, once it leaves these territorys there not responcible for it, so to me it's on the other ends problems IMO ,

Retail10-so if you shipped USPS and put insurance on it and it leaves this country what are you going to do if it gets lost past our borders ??? and the USPS says it's not insured after that, what are you going to tell your customer???


Steven
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I'll be honest. I haven't shipped a cue out of country previously. If what you say is true...I won't be going forward either. If I can't find a customer within the friendly confines of the country I reside in...I'll just keep the cue. I hate to cut off customer base...but I'm also looking for the sure thing. I want as few variables as possible.
 
cueaddicts said:
Steven, you got it. That question is the essence of what is being asked here IMO. I'm curious to hear others thoughts on this.....

A seller can require that the buyer pay the extra for the insurance, but that's stupid if it will not pay for the loss. Just for discussion purposes here, let's say a G.Szam worth $5000. The insurance fee for that will be $50 at a minimum. FedEx has told me that they WILL NOT COVER for the loss of such a "one of a kind" or "collectible" item. Doesn't matter what paperwork, appraisals, etc. you can produce. Their insurance policy apparently now excludes these such "unusual" items.

This is a very different situation than a joe-blow Schon (i.e. something that's readily available) valued at $300. I'm sure the insurance would no doubt cover that if lost.
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THE ONLY SAFE AND INSURABLE WAY TO SHIP HIGH DOLLAR ONE OF A KINDS/COLLECTIBLES, IS THROUGH THE POSTAL SERVICE, USING PRIORITY REGISTERED MAIL. IT TAKES A LITTLE LONGER, BUT THEY COVER INSURANCE CLAIMS WITHOUT QUESTIONS. CHECK IT OUT.

P.S. YOU COULDN'T PAY ME TO SHIP A CUE WITH IVORY TO A COUNTRY THAT HAS RESTRICTIONS, THERE IS JAIL TIME INVOLVED IF YOU GET CAUGHT, AND I DON'T WANT TO BE ANYBODY'S BEEAATCH
 
Then how

do Pro players go from country to country playing in tournaments when they have ivory in their cues. Doesn't customs stop them?
 
FAST_N_LOOSE said:
THE ONLY SAFE AND INSURABLE WAY TO SHIP HIGH DOLLAR ONE OF A KINDS/COLLECTIBLES, IS THROUGH THE POSTAL SERVICE, USING PRIORITY REGISTERED MAIL. IT TAKES A LITTLE LONGER, BUT THEY COVER INSURANCE CLAIMS WITHOUT QUESTIONS. CHECK IT OUT.

P.S. YOU COULDN'T PAY ME TO SHIP A CUE WITH IVORY TO A COUNTRY THAT HAS RESTRICTIONS, THERE IS JAIL TIME INVOLVED IF YOU GET CAUGHT, AND I DON'T WANT TO BE ANYBODY'S BEEAATCH
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the only problem with registered mail is they will not guarantee when the package will be delivered. it could be anywhere from a day to two weeks if sent within the continental U.S. i sent a cue for a freind of mine that way recently and it took 9 days before it was delivered. that's a little too long for any cue to sit amongst the elements so to speak.

P.S...........you're already someones "BEEAATCH".............the cue fairy's!:)
 
Hi justabrake,

No insult was taken. There's two problems with your point of view I feel;

The first is, you say you offer optional insurance on an item and let the buyer pay extra for this insurance. Then you say if the insurance doesn't pay out, the buyer is stuck with the bill even though he paid extra. I guess this is where our views differ the most, I feel the insurance is for the seller, you feel it is for the buyer. The "truth" is probably somewhere inbetween.

The second is I feel you're over-complicating things. Look at it from the buyer's viewpoint, he paid you for an item and doesn't have it. That's it, plain and simple. There's always a cause for something going wrong, in our examples the post-office screws up. But what can the buyer do about this?

As mentioned I also resell quite alot of things, and I stick to this policy when shipping. It doesn't arrive, I refund or send a new item if possible.
I try to put myself in my customers shoes and treat them as I expect to be treated.
I sold a few sets of joint protectors here a while back, for some reason they took forever to arrive. All three buyers received or were offered either a refund or a new set of JP's, two of them got both. The refund was refunded after receiving the new sets obviously. I know JP's are peanuts but those the only items that were "lost" in my dealings on AZ so far. The pill would be harder to swallow for a cue, but I'd do the same.

gr. Dave

justabrake said:
then I guess you better not buy from me because if your package gets lost in transit and your overseas " as you are" and I have the receites to prove I shipped it and the post office won't pay off don't expect me to because your 'll be shit out of luck , good luck to you because I think if you think anyone will be responcible for it your dreaming or living in another world out there and if someone here would say they would make good on it I would like to here from them.

no insult intended, but just giving you a fact.

Steven
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"The first is, you say you offer optional insurance on an item and let the buyer pay extra for this insurance. Then you say if the insurance doesn't pay out, the buyer is stuck with the bill even though he paid extra. I guess this is where our views differ the most, I feel the insurance is for the seller, you feel it is for the buyer. The "truth" is probably somewhere inbetween."

yes' the buyer pays for insurance, but the carrier won't pay off, I have receites for the insurance and package shiped receites, I go to the carrier and they tell me it's out of there hands because ,so-so-so, and they won't pay off on it, so your saying I should be resposible for the lost item and the money and take both the loses on both ends, I don't think so.

Steven
 
skins said:
the only problem with registered mail is they will not guarantee when the package will be delivered. it could be anywhere from a day to two weeks if sent within the continental U.S. i sent a cue for a freind of mine that way recently and it took 9 days before it was delivered. that's a little too long for any cue to sit amongst the elements so to speak.

P.S...........you're already someones "BEEAATCH".............the cue fairy's!:)
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TIM, THE REGISTERED STUFF IS KEPT IN CLIMATE CONTROLLED ENVIORNMENTS, AND HAS TO BE SIGNED FOR BY EVERY PERSON THAT HANDLES IT THROUGH THE SYSTEM, THAT'S WHY IT TAKES SO LONG. AND TO BE HONEST A FEW EXTRA DAYS, IS WORTH NOT LOSING A ONE OF A KIND CUE.

I MAY BE THE CUE FAIRY'S BEEAATCH, BUT THE CUE FAIRY LOVES ME, SO IT'S OK.
 
FAST_N_LOOSE said:
TIM, THE REGISTERED STUFF IS KEPT IN CLIMATE CONTROLLED ENVIORNMENTS, AND HAS TO BE SIGNED FOR BY EVERY PERSON THAT HANDLES IT THROUGH THE SYSTEM, THAT'S WHY IT TAKES SO LONG. AND TO BE HONEST A FEW EXTRA DAYS, IS WORTH NOT LOSING A ONE OF A KIND CUE.

I MAY BE THE CUE FAIRY'S BEEAATCH, BUT THE CUE FAIRY LOVES ME, SO IT'S OK.
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Marcus, good tip and definitely worth looking into. I see the logic in what you are saying and it would certainly work well for most stuff. But all that lag time in summers and winter cannot be good for cues with lots of ivory and especially lacquer finishes (like Szams). Overnight all the way. Got one coming in tomorrow overnight. Hope that UPS doesn't screw up and lose it (man, I may have just jinxed myself !!)

BTW, we have never been involved in a situation where a bought/sold cue was truly lost. Hopefully the good luck will continue. We had one issue a long time ago with a buyer who insisted that we not require signature delivery and he lived at an apt complex. Well, a few days later the cue supposedly never showed up. After we tracked down the postal driver and his manager, who assured us that he delivered the tube there to a person, we handled this like it was a scam. It was insured, but insurance doesn't cover a loss when it's delivered. Boy, that was the end of that. Signature delivery everytime now...no exceptions.

The only thing we use is USPS priority on cheaper stuff, FedEx 2nd day, and FedEx overnight. We've tried them all, but these have been the most reliable for us.
 
FAST_N_LOOSE said:
TIM, THE REGISTERED STUFF IS KEPT IN CLIMATE CONTROLLED ENVIORNMENTS, AND HAS TO BE SIGNED FOR BY EVERY PERSON THAT HANDLES IT THROUGH THE SYSTEM, THAT'S WHY IT TAKES SO LONG. AND TO BE HONEST A FEW EXTRA DAYS, IS WORTH NOT LOSING A ONE OF A KIND CUE.

I MAY BE THE CUE FAIRY'S BEEAATCH, BUT THE CUE FAIRY LOVES ME, SO IT'S OK.
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who told you it get's kept in "climate contolled environments"?? i have some news for you, it's not. it's out for delivery every day in the elements and the delivery vehicle's, being truck or plane cargo hold, are NOT climate controlled. depending on the season it can go through heat cold and humidity all in the same day. that's my point.
 
skins said:
who told you it get's kept in "climate contolled environments"?? i have some news for you, it's not. it's out for delivery every day in the elements and the delivery vehicle's, being truck or plane cargo hold, are NOT climate controlled. depending on the season it can go through heat cold and humidity all in the same day. that's my point.
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I WAS TOLD BY SEVERAL PEOPLE ON THE PHONE FROM THE POSTAL SERVICE, THAT HIGH DOLLAR REGISTERED PACKAGES, AND CLIMATE CONTROLLED, AND HAVE A PERSON WITH THEM AT ALL TIMES.

I'VE NEVER HAD A PROBLEM SHIPPING THIS WAY, SO I WAS JUST TRUSTING WHAT THEY TOLD ME.
 
The best 2 services that I have received was fedx overnight from canada had it next morning $50. and worth every penny of it, and International Express Mail Service(EMS) for $35. from Taiwan, Japan 3 days awsum


Steven
 
FAST_N_LOOSE said:
I WAS TOLD BY SEVERAL PEOPLE ON THE PHONE FROM THE POSTAL SERVICE, THAT HIGH DOLLAR REGISTERED PACKAGES, AND CLIMATE CONTROLLED, AND HAVE A PERSON WITH THEM AT ALL TIMES.

I'VE NEVER HAD A PROBLEM SHIPPING THIS WAY, SO I WAS JUST TRUSTING WHAT THEY TOLD ME.
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they may be correct that when they are through with that days tavel the items are put inside a climate controlled area but not when they're out for delivery and that ping-pong situation could last many days. the rest about the items being more secure is true. next day air with lot's of insurance i think is the best shipping method for high dollar cues.
 
I'll make this a little clearer.

Q: Why do catalog companies and manufacturers refund consumers who do not receive their items? Why do you think credit card companies refund you when you don't receive goods?

A: Because they legally have to do so.

The seller is legally responsible for loss or damage to the shipped goods unless this right is specifically weaived by written agreement. While most of these things will never go to court, if you sold someone a cue, you shipped it, you had the receipt and shipping details, and it never showed up, if it went to court you would be ordered by the court to refund the defendant, and you would have a claim against the carrier if you bought insurance.

Consumers are well protected against losses. I don't know why this concept is hard for some people to understand.

Chris
 
This is not what I am, company or manufacturer. i'm an ebayer selling an item,

now where does ebay rules stand on this?

not a companys standpoint but ebays standpoint since this is thru them,I know your probably the most honest guy here in this forum and you'd like to do the right thing but, lets just say you had a sale and you shipped overseas and did everything right and the package went missing just say a $2000.00 cue and the carrier said they won't pay off, what are you going to do, take'm to small claims court ? thats $1500.00 I think and what if you loose are you going to refund the buyer?,

what's his responsibilties on this , none , your not a company do you have insurance on looses for shipping out of the country,

I worked for a air frieght service for 5 yrs. and my brother worked there for 37yrs and I've seen it all and understand insurance with them we use to have an quarterly report of stolen merchandise come out every 4 months and you could'nt imagine how much the claims were i'm talking millions and millions per quarter, the company had an outside insurance company which meant we didn't pay but our insurance went up , like someone else mentioned here they only pay what they estimate the value for it, not what you say, companys use to put down 50,000 in insurance they got what the paper was worth.

Tate, you and I are not a company.


Steven



Q: Why do catalog companies and manufacturers refund consumers who do not receive their items? Why do you think credit card companies refund you when you don't receive goods?

A: Because they legally have to do so.
 
FAST_N_LOOSE said:
I WAS TOLD BY SEVERAL PEOPLE ON THE PHONE FROM THE POSTAL SERVICE, THAT HIGH DOLLAR REGISTERED PACKAGES, AND CLIMATE CONTROLLED, AND HAVE A PERSON WITH THEM AT ALL TIMES.

I'VE NEVER HAD A PROBLEM SHIPPING THIS WAY, SO I WAS JUST TRUSTING WHAT THEY TOLD ME.
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Marcus

Are you saying registered as in Express Mail with insurance or just registered and insured?
For Clarity!

Also it is my understanding that the USPS insures up to $5K only.
Does anyone know that for a fact?

Myron
 
alpine9430 said:
Marcus

Are you saying registered as in Express Mail with insurance or just registered and insured?
For Clarity!

Also it is my understanding that the USPS insures up to $5K only.
Does anyone know that for a fact?

Myron
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us postal service -registered mail.

pros:
1 most secure method of shipping, 2 cheapest for insurance/value, 3 high value insurance available at very good rates

cons:
1 no guarantee of delivery date.
 
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