Opinions needed on Gold Crown IV setup
- Thread starter SpeedStar
- Start date
SpeedStar said:
As I mentioned---I am not familiar with the Gold Crown set up but the washers should be next to the nut and not used as a spacer. Originally I said next to the bolt-sorry, my fault.
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Gc 4
I have set up and recovered may GC 4's. I have not had any problems with any of them. They are very nice to set up with the slate leveling system that Brunswick developed. You do not use any shims on the table. This system makes it pretty easy to level out if you know what you are doing.
I have 3 machinist levels that I use when I set up a table, it just makes it easier. 2 of them are .0005" for 10" per line. This makes leveling every accurate when seting up a table. It also lets you know how the condition of the slates are. Slate will move and sag after time. Also there are just some badly machine slates out there.
As far as your GC4 it should play great when it is set up right. The table should be very solid. It sounds like you got stuck with a bad set up guy. I do not call them mechanics because there are only a few good ones out there. Most come in and slap the table together and get out the door with your money. Most do not even really know how to play pool.
By the way, I have been doing the all work on Hard Times Bellflowers tables for many years and like to thank Ken for helping me out. He runs one of the best pool rooms in the world. And also the support from the AZ Billiards members.
Thanks,
Steve
If you need any help please just send me a pm
I have set up and recovered may GC 4's. I have not had any problems with any of them. They are very nice to set up with the slate leveling system that Brunswick developed. You do not use any shims on the table. This system makes it pretty easy to level out if you know what you are doing.
I have 3 machinist levels that I use when I set up a table, it just makes it easier. 2 of them are .0005" for 10" per line. This makes leveling every accurate when seting up a table. It also lets you know how the condition of the slates are. Slate will move and sag after time. Also there are just some badly machine slates out there.
As far as your GC4 it should play great when it is set up right. The table should be very solid. It sounds like you got stuck with a bad set up guy. I do not call them mechanics because there are only a few good ones out there. Most come in and slap the table together and get out the door with your money. Most do not even really know how to play pool.
By the way, I have been doing the all work on Hard Times Bellflowers tables for many years and like to thank Ken for helping me out. He runs one of the best pool rooms in the world. And also the support from the AZ Billiards members.
Thanks,
Steve
If you need any help please just send me a pm
SpeedStar said:
I dunno- I think you either had to get someone who woulda done it right, or someone who boffed the job. I know, duh...
What I mean is, had you turned the first guy away, I wouldn't think you would really be able to say his work was less than competent.
Glad to hear some who knows wht he's doing is coming over to make things right. In the longer term, you are gonna have a nice set-up!
Thanks for all of the input to everyone. I really appreciate it. Joe at Triangle billiards is standing behind it and assures me they will make it right.
I have a question about the rails and apron assembly. The assembly manual says they should be assembled and squared off of the table and then placed on the slate. The guy I had said you can't get it square that way and instead put them together loose and then placed them on the slate and tightened eveything around the table from there. What do the true table mechanics out there think?
I want to be able to make sure I ask for the right things to be done when they come back to tear it down and resetup the table.
I have a question about the rails and apron assembly. The assembly manual says they should be assembled and squared off of the table and then placed on the slate. The guy I had said you can't get it square that way and instead put them together loose and then placed them on the slate and tightened eveything around the table from there. What do the true table mechanics out there think?
I want to be able to make sure I ask for the right things to be done when they come back to tear it down and resetup the table.
I wanted to update everyone that helped me on this one.
Triangle came back this weekend and replaced the rails, cloth and releveled the table. They were there for 5 hours to do the job, but it is right this time.
As you can see from my avatar, I have stone Centennial fabric.
I warned the installer the first time around that I was against usiing Bondo with light cloth as I had Simonis platinum turn pink over the bondo in the past. He did it anyway, and guess what, it turned pink within a week. They replaced the cloth and used beeswax this time.
The issue with the rails was with Brunswick's lack of quality control I guess because the junction from rubber to wood was inconsistent. The edge was very rough and could be felt on top of the cloth. They actually brought two sets of rails, good thing too, because the first set was no better than what I already had.
The second set was better, but I still layed masking tape over the joint and tapered between two and four layers to smooth the junction. This was only going about .25 - .375 passed the joint and not onto the working area of the rail.
This worked perfect and the finished job looks great.
I had to do it though, as the installer said that was not something he had heard of before.
This guy also had no machinist level, but I have to say, he did get it level enough so that I cannot detect any runout anywhere on it.
I even checked every diamond on the slate with a pane of glass and ball, no movement anywhere.
Bottom line, Thanks to Joe and Triangle Billiards for standing behind their work and making it right.
Triangle came back this weekend and replaced the rails, cloth and releveled the table. They were there for 5 hours to do the job, but it is right this time.
As you can see from my avatar, I have stone Centennial fabric.
I warned the installer the first time around that I was against usiing Bondo with light cloth as I had Simonis platinum turn pink over the bondo in the past. He did it anyway, and guess what, it turned pink within a week. They replaced the cloth and used beeswax this time.
The issue with the rails was with Brunswick's lack of quality control I guess because the junction from rubber to wood was inconsistent. The edge was very rough and could be felt on top of the cloth. They actually brought two sets of rails, good thing too, because the first set was no better than what I already had.
The second set was better, but I still layed masking tape over the joint and tapered between two and four layers to smooth the junction. This was only going about .25 - .375 passed the joint and not onto the working area of the rail.
This worked perfect and the finished job looks great.
I had to do it though, as the installer said that was not something he had heard of before.
This guy also had no machinist level, but I have to say, he did get it level enough so that I cannot detect any runout anywhere on it.
I even checked every diamond on the slate with a pane of glass and ball, no movement anywhere.
Bottom line, Thanks to Joe and Triangle Billiards for standing behind their work and making it right.
Pane of glass, etc.
When you mentioned a pane of glass, it made me wonder, how parallel is the top of the glass to the bottom. I am not sure that this would be an accurate test.
Tracy[/QUOTE]
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There's no substitute for a machinist's level, and no excuse for a paid table installer not to use one.
That said, the "pane-of-glass" test should work to troubleshoot, but only if you rotate the glass 90-degrees, three more times to re-test in each bed area, to find out if the ball roll-off is in the same direction each time. That should eliminate any fear that the glass itself is bad.
However, you (or your mechanic) will need a machinist's level to solve the problem. Trying to level the slates with the "pane-of-glass" will promptly become a "pain-in-the-ass". You both will go crazy. Good luck.
When you mentioned a pane of glass, it made me wonder, how parallel is the top of the glass to the bottom. I am not sure that this would be an accurate test.
Tracy[/QUOTE]
------------------------------
There's no substitute for a machinist's level, and no excuse for a paid table installer not to use one.
That said, the "pane-of-glass" test should work to troubleshoot, but only if you rotate the glass 90-degrees, three more times to re-test in each bed area, to find out if the ball roll-off is in the same direction each time. That should eliminate any fear that the glass itself is bad.
However, you (or your mechanic) will need a machinist's level to solve the problem. Trying to level the slates with the "pane-of-glass" will promptly become a "pain-in-the-ass". You both will go crazy. Good luck.
I would never let a mechanic work on my table if they broke out a Stanley carpenter's level. I wouldn't let it get to that point, I'd ask in advance if they have such a level. If they said yes, but showed up without one - I'd ask them to leave.
If it comes down to using a P.O.S. carpenter's level - I CAN DO THAT MYSELF and save the money of having a table mechanic come. Otherwise, I can buy myself a machinist's level and do it myself that way too. eBay has many of the choices below for less money.
http://www.littlemachineshop.com/products/product_view.php?ProductID=2423
12" seems to be the best value. 18" is nice, but $100 more..but all of them, the 4,6,12 and 18" offer the same .0005 over 12" accuracy.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0000DD39K/103-0069163-4024672?v=glance&n=228013
This one is from Amazon, inexpensive, and will definately do the job for a pool table. While it measures .0005 difference over 10", you can always put the level on different ends of each slate and check that way too like you would for any short level.
Check out these...these must cost a lot of money (they don't even list prices) - look at the higher end precision choices! These have more precision than the slate is held to, so it would be a waste of precision:
http://www.leveldevelopments.com/engineers-block-levels.htm
The Amazon one seems best, with the 1st link being a close 2nd (from a value perspective).
If it comes down to using a P.O.S. carpenter's level - I CAN DO THAT MYSELF and save the money of having a table mechanic come. Otherwise, I can buy myself a machinist's level and do it myself that way too. eBay has many of the choices below for less money.
http://www.littlemachineshop.com/products/product_view.php?ProductID=2423
12" seems to be the best value. 18" is nice, but $100 more..but all of them, the 4,6,12 and 18" offer the same .0005 over 12" accuracy.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0000DD39K/103-0069163-4024672?v=glance&n=228013
This one is from Amazon, inexpensive, and will definately do the job for a pool table. While it measures .0005 difference over 10", you can always put the level on different ends of each slate and check that way too like you would for any short level.
Check out these...these must cost a lot of money (they don't even list prices) - look at the higher end precision choices! These have more precision than the slate is held to, so it would be a waste of precision:
http://www.leveldevelopments.com/engineers-block-levels.htm
The Amazon one seems best, with the 1st link being a close 2nd (from a value perspective).
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